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Libertarian Hero Ron Paul Blames US for 9/11

Oliver said:
The US strategies are about Money, Influence, Imperialism. They give a ***** about "evil" Regimes, evil Dictators and "Evildoers" who actually have WMD's. So the Government is nothing but a bunch of cowardliness Liars.
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Can you list the countries that don't have strategies about money, influence, and "imperialism" (I don't know how you're defining that last one)?

Thanks in advance!
 
parky76 said:
If they dont hate us for our foreign policies...then why do they hate us?

Because we are so big? Because we are a beacon of hope and freedom?

Please. If they hated countries because of freedom, 9-11 would have happaned in Toronto. They would be bombing Norway. Attacks would be taking place in Dublin.

They hate us for our policies..it is that simple.
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Parky,
Do you think if we break our relationship with Israel and get out of Iraq and the rest of the Middle East then al-Qaeda will end their war against us?
I believe they would. In my opinion this is the only way to end this endless war.
 
Pardalis said:
It has nothing to do with 9/11, unless the 19 highjackers used US made box cutters supplied by the CIA during the Afghan war.
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The last report I saw said they most likely used Leatherman type tools which makes much more sense of you think about it.
 
MaGZ said:
Parky,
Do you think if we break our relationship with Israel and get out of Iraq and the rest of the Middle East then al-Qaeda will end their war against us?
I believe they would. In my opinion this is the only way to end this endless war.
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It would drastically reduce the heat against the "Western World". But in this case Israel is lost - or if they indeed have nuclear weapons, it could be a real catastrophe in contrast to a "lousy" 9/11 and Iraq War - resulting in a very big war drawing many countries into this conflict. :boggled:
 
WildCat said:
Can you list the countries that don't have strategies about money, influence, and "imperialism" (I don't know how you're defining that last one)?

Thanks in advance!
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Of course every country is trying to gain from other countries. The Problem I have is the difference between diplomatic relations to archive this goal and the aggressive, military way to do so. That's part of the US-Strategy (Pentagon/White House/Cia) and this seems to be completely independent from Congress and Public.

While this is nothing new since it took so much attraction in the Iran-Contra affair, it's pretty new to officially/publicly declare wars preemptively.

Anyway: I don't support this aggressive strategies because I think that we all have a similar understanding of democracy in the western world, don't we?
 
Pardalis said:
I think al Qaeda has a distorted view of everything, they are not rational people. 9/11 was their doing.

The US have done many things wrong in the Middle East, but they are not responsible for this group of madmen's actions.
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The US helped create him. They were happy to support anyone who would shoot at the Ruskies. As many people find out, supporting someone who is strong in war you might have in common with them, won't necessarily stop them turning on you when that war is over.
 
Oliver said:
Of course every country is trying to gain from other countries.
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Glad to see you admit that.

The Problem I have is the difference between diplomatic relations to archive this goal and the aggressive, military way to do so. That's part of the US-Strategy (Pentagon/White House/Cia) and this seems to be completely independent from Congress and Public.
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You were against the diplomatic attempt at a solution to the Saddam problem also - the embargo. You apparently think you'll get results against someone like Saddam by applying no pressure whatsoever?

While this is nothing new since it took so much attraction in the Iran-Contra affair, it's pretty new to officially/publicly declare wars preemptively.
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It wasn't a pre-emptive war. It was prosecuted because Saddam didn't live up to his committments in the peace treaty that ended hostilities in 1991.

Anyway: I don't support this aggressive strategies because I think that we all have a similar understanding of democracy in the western world, don't we?
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What does democracy have to do with how a country conducts foreign affairs?
 
WildCat said:
Glad to see you admit that.

You were against the diplomatic attempt at a solution to the Saddam problem also - the embargo. You apparently think you'll get results against someone like Saddam by applying no pressure whatsoever?

It wasn't a pre-emptive war. It was prosecuted because Saddam didn't live up to his committments in the peace treaty that ended hostilities in 1991.

What does democracy have to do with how a country conducts foreign affairs?
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I don't see pressure in terms of Embargo's as a diplomatic effort to solve a problem. Pressure always have pretty unforeseeable results - as we can see throughout history.

For example: The Hiroshima Incident went lucky and ended the war - but it could have ended in a completely different way. It's the kind of russian roulette I don't support to make the World more secure.

Or in other Words: Friendly Diplomacy is the better way to reduce unpredictable, unwanted events.
 
Oliver said:
Or in other Words: Friendly Diplomacy is the better way to reduce unpredictable, unwanted events.
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Of course, because it has never worked against a hostile government in all of history. So I agree that it is a very predictable stategy...
 
I must admit I chose a side on this matter very early in the game.

On the day of the attacks, (9/11), I was at work. I had a my wife's pager at the time because she was very close to the delivery, due date of our daughter. I got the news of the attack almost immediately. We all went to the break room to see what was going on, on the TV. After we returned to work, I was in shock of course. I asked my coworker who and why would someone want to attack us like this? He happened to be ex- military. He responded as if I was joking. He asked how much I knew about our military occupation in countries abroad. I had no clue, as I was a, hippie type, and didn't care about the military much. He said there are few countries out there who do not, deeply hate, the US. He said we are bullies and parade around with automatic weapons in civilian cities all around the world night and day. He said this causes animosity towards us, to say the least. He said that he was not at all surprised by the attack. This was on the date of 9/11! Not years later, after as conspiracies were concocted. He said it was more surprising that the attack was not sooner. I was never aware at all, of any of these things prior to him explaining it to me on that day.

I am shocked that what Ron Paul said, was made out to be so outrageous. The man is simply telling the truth. You can deny it all you want, but it is still the cold hard truth.
 
Oliver said:
That's true - I'm also interested about Wildcat's view about the american involvement in setting up Saddam's Party to overthrow the Rahman Arif regime.
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He asked for a retraction in that post. I was hoping he would at least now make his own.
 
g4macdad said:
I must admit I chose a side on this matter very early in the game.

On the day of the attacks, (9/11), I was at work. I had a my wife's pager at the time because she was very close to the delivery, due date of our daughter. I got the news of the attack almost immediately. We all went to the break room to see what was going on, on the TV. After we returned to work, I was in shock of course.
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As someone who actually paid attention to events in the world prior to 9/11, al Qaeda was the prime suspect in a very short list in my mind. Your shock was rooted in ignorance.

He said we are bullies and parade around with automatic weapons in civilian cities all around the world night and day.
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Could you name one of these cities?
 
WildCat said:
I believe the onus is on you to provide the example...
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You never give any examples of anything! You are always demanding examples though.

I believe you are full of, Hot Air only, and have no real contributions of your own.
 
Oliver said:
That's true - I'm also interested about Wildcat's view about the american involvement in setting up Saddam's Party to overthrow the Rahman Arif regime.
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I already responded to that yeaterday, did you miss it? :confused:
 
g4macdad said:
You never give any examples of anything!
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What would you like me to give an example of?

You are always demanding examples though.
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It's odd how I ask for evidence when claims are made, isn't it? Remember your claim that there were non-military targets in the shock and awe bombing campaign? You have not provided a single one to date...
 
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