Why was Dispatches showing a programme about Thatcher..... ?
(I didn't see it so have no serious comments to offer.)
So, Labour leadership contest?
- Thread starter Lucky
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Why was Dispatches showing a programme about Thatcher..... ?
(I didn't see it so have no serious comments to offer.)
JonWhite
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As much as it really is hard to say I will vote for any party that closest matches what I think should happen in this country. For many years this was quite an easy decision, today it is more difficult as the three main parties have certainly all moved to a very similar position in the political spectrum. You really do have to think more about how to vote - perhaps that's why voter turn out is down?
And that's the problem - it really has come down to personality. Do you want grumpy old Brown or more camera friendly Cameron? All indications so far are that there'll be little difference politically. Same old variety of self-serving political careerists, same old spin....
JonWhite
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Yeah, I did the same. Half hour of Brown -that was quite enough! - then turned over for the $cientologists.
Brown certainly didn't come across as a good choice for PM.
a_unique_person
Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning
Long time no see, Lucky.
Darth Rotor
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The topic is far more timely, with Mr Blair leaving office soon, the US Presidential thing is in the foreplay stage.
DR
Hello a_u_p. I guess you're not especially interested in the UK Labour leadership, but perhaps someone will manage to turn the discussion into an Israel/Palestine brawl (I thought I'd done that myself with my OP).
Also, it would stimulate a public discussion of socialist issues and cause an upsurge of interest in politics - the last thing that Nu-Labour wants. The media would no longer be able to ignore McDonnell, as they have so far. Most of the coverage would be the usual personality-based tripe, but some mention of the essential issues would be unavoidable.
Actually, if he gets on the ballot paper the contest could be close. We know how the MPs will vote, but who can say what the Labour Party and union members will do?
It's the campaign itself rather than the vote that worries the Brownites. It would be very beneficial to the left, and therefore damaging to Nu-Labour. For instance, a lot of people (especially ex-members) would join the Labour Party just to vote (I might do that myself). Some would become active, and could easily outnumber the current handful of activists - the party could be transformed.
Also, it would stimulate a public discussion of socialist issues and cause an upsurge of interest in politics - the last thing that Nu-Labour wants. The media would no longer be able to ignore McDonnell, as they have so far. Most of the coverage would be the usual personality-based tripe, but some mention of the essential issues would be unavoidable.
Actually, if he gets on the ballot paper the contest could be close. We know how the MPs will vote, but who can say what the Labour Party and union members will do?
JonWhite
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I admire your optimism!
After 18 years of Tory & 10 years of Tony I've pretty much given up hope of a political ideology worth voting for emerging.
If anything it would be beneficial to the Conservatives and Liberals and the chances of another Labour government.
It's always more beneficial for the left not to be seen or heard.... just like it is for the right...
Can that even happen?
Rubbish - thankfully the time of the loony left has long gone (and I know of what I speak - I was thrown out of the Labour party many years ago for belonging to loony left groups).
No it wouldn't it would at best stimulate a bit of media attention on so called socialist polices such as unilateral nuclear disarmament (which is not a policy that rises out of socialist or leftwing principles but is a tacked on idea from a quite different ideology i.e. pacifism)
Nope - it would not be close, the Labour Party is no longer full of loonies, it's full of people who want to get elected.
There is nothing more scary than politics dictated by ideology rather than reality, I fervently hope we never go back to the politics of ideologies.
Feel free to vote SNP. They're nothing like the others.
As far as I am aware they don't field candidates on a national level.
(And they are exactly like the rest
only not as Scottish.)As far as I am aware they don't field candidates on a national level.
(And they are exactly like the rest
It depends upon your definition of "national".
And if we're to believe the "big" three, the SNP are completely different and, indeed, the devil incarnate. They wouldn't be lying, would they?
Rolfe
Adult human female
Well, I managed to live in England and vote SNP for 25 years, so it can be done.Feel free to vote SNP. They're nothing like the others.
(Architect, you're rattling Darat. He only had me to deal with on this one before.)
I like it, I like it.... It shall henceforth be Rolfe policy to refer to them thus.
Rolfe.
Which constituency did you live in - I really did not know that the SNP fielded candidates at a national level.
Eh?
JonWhite
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I did add "worth voting for".
At least some genuine belief and vision for improving the country would be nice to see in our politicians. The only concern of our current shower seems to be for self-serving preservation and advancement, spouting whatever cr*p they (or their advisors) think will get them a vote or a good by-line. Any notion of doing what's good for the country seems to come a very poor second best.
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You know, that was one thing I liked (hell, the only thing) about the likes of Tommy Sheridan, Margo MacDonald, and Dennis Cannavan. I got the impression that they did it because they really cared, not for the cash.
Still didn't agree with their politics, though.
Still didn't agree with their politics, though.
Rolfe
Adult human female
Depressing story.I did add "worth voting for".
At least some genuine belief and vision for improving the country would be nice to see in our politicians. The only concern of our current shower seems to be for self-serving preservation and advancement, spouting whatever cr*p they (or their advisors) think will get them a vote or a good by-line. Any notion of doing what's good for the country seems to come a very poor second best.
It was the day of the devolution referendum in 1997. I had got on a plane at Gatwick in order to make it to the polling station by early evening. My mother had arranged a taxi to meet me at Abbotsinch and bring me home. Home, as in the Soviet Republic of Motherwell and Wishaw, fiefdom to this day of one J. McConnell. The point of this is that the taxi wasn't an airport one, it was from a Motherwell-based firm.
I was wearing a bright yellow sweatshirt (the one I have on right now in fact), black trousers and a black jacket. I may even have had an SNP badge on. I wasn't exactly being subtle about it. But I didn't start the conversation. The driver did. What about this referendum, then? He was in favour of a parliament, but he wouldnae gie they buggers ony tax-raising powers. He wouldnae hae them gettin their thievin hauns on ony of his money. Privately, I was a bit worried that might be a majority view (worry not justified as it turned out). I ventured to express the opinion that if one wanted to elect a government, one should trust them with some money. If one could not trust them with money, one would be better not electing them. (Of course everybody knew that the whole "tax-raising powers" part was just a Labour wrecking amendment, and that in fact no Scottish government would be likely to use them, but there was concern that the wrecking might be effective, by making people fear they would be hit in the pocket.)
This remark was followed by a rant from the driver about the venal nature of Westminster politicians, and how they were all only in it for the money and it was a complete gravy-train. Yadda yadda, we've all heard it. Except this wasn't just Joe Public on a rant. This guy was a Labour Party member. In fact he was an activist. In fact he was on the committee. His remarks were from the informed position of having observed the whole shebang at close quarters. And in fact he was on the committee and an activist precisely because he himself wanted very much to become a candidate for a safe seat and get on the gravy train himself.
I just sat there, with my jaw on the floor of the taxi.
At the time I was myself on the committee of my local SNP branch, and had attended party conferences and met MPs and prospective candidates and so on, and nothing of this nature had even got on my radar screen. In contrast, this knuckle-dragging Neanderthal was either so unobservant or so confident that he didn't mind telling all to a complete stranger, who not entirely coincidentally was decked up conspicuously in the colours of the rival party.
We live and learn.
[Not-so-depressing part happened about five hours later when the first couple of results were in, and all the journos deserted the carefully-staged announcement hall for the party. And I phoned the SNP coterie gathered in Brighton, and we screamed down the phone to each other for about half an hour.
Next day a LibDem guy encountered at the winding-up of the Vigil outside the (then presumed) parliament building said, genuinely puzzled, why are you guys so happy? I thought you didn't want this parliament? So does propaganda stick.]
Rolfe.
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JonWhite
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...and you'll probably soon see said taxi driver once again. But this time on a select committee or quango. Or even in Mr. Brown's next cabinet.
