Intellectually honest proponents of Darwinian evolution can admit that there will always be biological phenomena that are difficult to explain through evolution, simply because there are so many phenomena and in such variety. ID people will always have these unexplained phenomena to point to with their God (or alien) of the Gaps approach. How do we move forward?
It moves forward irregardless, they are not moving at all. Where is the evidence of thier movement?
First we can try taking ID seriously as a science, with testable claims. The testable claim that ID makes is that the evolution of phenomenon X can not be explained without invoking the hand of a higher power.
That is sort of what they claim and sort of what they don't claim. They pretty much just say "It is too complex , so it must be designed". The ONUS IS ON THEM to demonstrate thier claim and lacking theory.
For most phenomena it's trivial or even funny - say with the peelability of the domesticated banana. For others it's an exercise in creative thinking - thanks for the link on the bombardier beetle.
You do know that these discussion occur because people in evolutionary biology discuss them and research them. It has not been prompted by the IDers, nor is it done to satistfy them. It occurs without them and despite them.
Where is thier research to prove thier point?
For others it leads to greater knowledge of biochemistry, as with the flagellum (and I get the feeling that someone has brought up RNA based regulation of amino acid production in Prokaryotes). So taking them at their word can be useful.
You do realize, I hope, that these are debates that occur between evolutionary biologists, just the IDers look for things and then ignore the research that has already been done. The IDers are not the ones doing the research, the disccussion already occurs despite anything they do, and they are usualy twenty years behind. Most of the specific critiques of evolutionary theory that they call "Darwinism", have already been addressed and discussed at lenth in the community of evolutionary biology. Look at Gould and all the others who already have discussed the errors in darwin's model. But still the IDers for POLITICAL reasons refer to the theory as darwinsism and still talk as though the conversation darwin started stopped a hundred years ago.
In fact, if we assume that they are making testable claims we pretty much end up doing what we would do anyway.
In fact if they make a testable claim, which they don't, then THE ONUS IS ON THEM to prove thier claim.
What have they pointed to that was not already a topic of research, what area have they pointed to that needs more study?
They do not contribute to the conversation, they are out of date, they don't do research to prove thier claims.
When we see something without an obvious naturalistic explanation, we can't help but investigate. However, there will always be some as of yet unexplained phenomena for ID proponents to point to.
Yeah so? What about the fact that they ignore what has already been discussed and researched and point to it any how?
WHY DON'T THEY PROVE THIER CLAIM?
Or we can act as if prominent proponents of ID are power hungry and intellectually dishonest and not interested in the truth, as mountains of evidence show. In this case we should ridicule their theory by pointing out it's unintentional corollaries. We can ask why there are so many incredibly inefficient designs in nature that the guiding hand chose. Also, relay, things like asking a Christian proponent of ID what point god had in making the prostate so sensitive as a sexual organ would be fun.
I prefer the former solution though, as it shows the 90% of people who are duped into believing ID theory (the other 10% being those with the political interest in spreading it) that there are creative ways of exploring the universe without invoking higher powers. This approach would show that we aren't a bunch of know it alls, and that the intellectual culture of science is one of inclusion for people genuinely interested in expanding human knowledge. It wouldn't be easy.
You obviously don't read much of the debate and want people who are patient to continue to put up with the repeated idiocy of the IDers.
Why don't the IDers do research, why don't they prove thier claim. If they come to this forum they have to deal with it the same way we all do. I have been ridiculed and flamed, i have been the subject of humor. So what?
They came here , they deal with it, the way it is.
Have you actualy read any of the extended discussions on evolutionary theory on this board? Or are you just trying to say that those who are sceptics need to be more reasonable than those who come here to post thier point of view. Review some of the thread, count the words, you will see the ratio of discussion to the level of flame.
Many people have spent hundreds of hours in their places of worship undergoing indoctrination, but given that the facts are on our side it's certainly possible. These people aren't zombies.
Or just motivated like most to bleive that which makes them feel better.
