*split* Lyte's proof that the Lloyd England's experience is false

[jaydeehess]

Trying to get Lyte to answer you is like trying to prove that Paris Hilton is a virgin

That video was a fake!

 

[Belz...]

Clearly you don't know the official flight path or the topography of the area.

Do you believe his flying was impossible because of YOUR alledged flight path, Lyte ?

how would YOU have done it?

Immediately and from the top, diving into the middle. Or directly into the front mall entrance where all the bigwigs are.

Unfortunately, in order to do that you'd have to come from a certain direction. Also, time was of the essence, which is why the terrorist attacks were coordinated.

I wouldn't pass the pentagon, when all i had to do is make a left. Execute a spiral, not knowing if I would be off course or more importantly if fighters were about to blow me out of the sky.

That's pretty much what I just said. Of course that would mean hijacking a different plane.

yeah and just saying witnesses were mistaken because it 5 yrs later is also a good way to win a debate

That's because it's a fact. People tend to remember LESS after time has passed. However, because the memory itself degrades and is often compensated for, people rarely notice that their memory has become less reliable.

 

[fezzic]

People's memories ares also affected by what they see, hear, and read after the fact. I think it would be called "muddying the waters". It would not be unreasonable to expect that witnesses, long after the event, can (with no intent of deceit) remember the events incorrectly or as occuring in the wrong order.

That is why attorneys try to prep their witnesses, when they will be questioning them about events that may be pretty distant in the past, so that their testimony will be consistent with previous testimony or written statements. (hmmm, do I have this wrong??)

 

[twinstead]

Regardless of all these extraneous points, the fact remains that even if Lyte's 4 witnesses were 100% consistent and 100% in support of his theory (which they are NOT), the fact is that the physical evidence and the overwhelming majority of eye witnesses disagree.

He can claim those witnesses are mistaken or lying all he wants, he can claim the physical evidence is planted all he wants, but unless he can PROVE it, they stand, and all he has is a few anomalous witnesses. And as we all know, anomalous witnesses are a mainstay in any large investigation and accounted for accordingly.

Any court of law on Earth would agree with me.

 

[mortimer]

Perhaps Lyte's 4 witnesses are government shills, instructed to distract Lyte and his Citizens Investigation Team from discovering the REAL conspiracy. Which is of course to keep marijuana illegal, thereby propping up prices, so the government gets a nice cut every time Lyte "lytes" up.

ITS POSSIBLE SO IT MUST BE TRUE!

 

[Alt+F4]

He can claim those witnesses are mistaken or lying all he wants, he can claim the physical evidence is planted all he wants, but unless he can PROVE it....

That's why Lyte has become the new Christophera. As others have suggested I too will no longer respond to his posts. At this point, it's just a waste of bandwith.

 

[jaydeehess]

I missed this little gem

if fighters were about to blow me out of the sky.

Well if any of the hijacked planes had indeed been blown out of the sky then it seems Lyte would classify that as a win for the good guys and an abject failure for the terrorists.

Fact is of course that forcing the gov't of the USA to shoot down a plane and thus kill several dozen of its own citizens would still be a win for the terrorists. For that reason Hanjour quite likely gave no thought to whether or not a fighter was on his tail. He had no way of knowing if there was one there, he had no defence against one and he expected to die anyway so just what about being shot down is supposed to bother him greatly? In the case of flight 93 we have the hijacker possibly deliberatly putting the plane into the ground. That was his only option given the revolt by the passengers and it still resulted in the death of all aboard. Another 'win' for the terrorists despite the heroics of the passengers.

Hanjour just took his time and aimed for his target the best he could. No pressure, he knows and expects and wants to die in the service of his cause in that plane.

 

[HawksFan]

I missed this little gem


Well if any of the hijacked planes had indeed been blown out of the sky then it seems Lyte would classify that as a win for the good guys and an abject failure for the terrorists.

Fact is of course that forcing the gov't of the USA to shoot down a plane and thus kill several dozen of its own citizens would still be a win for the terrorists. For that reason Hanjour quite likely gave no thought to whether or not a fighter was on his tail. He had no way of knowing if there was one there, he had no defence against one and he expected to die anyway so just what about being shot down is supposed to bother him greatly? In the case of flight 93 we have the hijacker possibly deliberatly putting the plane into the ground. That was his only option given the revolt by the passengers and it still resulted in the death of all aboard. Another 'win' for the terrorists despite the heroics of the passengers.

Hanjour just took his time and aimed for his target the best he could. No pressure, he knows and expects and wants to die in the service of his cause in that plane.

BINGO!

The fact that they had the planes at all was a win. Hitting the buildings was just icing on the cake.

 

[Cl1mh4224rd]

How about a little reversal, Lyte?

If your fly-over theory were the "official" account from the get-go, what do you think people like you would be saying about...

1) The downed light posts?
2) The damaged generator?
3) The hundreds of witnesses who claimed to have seen the plane impact or head directly for the Pentagon?
3) The complete lack of witnesses claiming to have seen the plane fly over the Pentagon?
4) The airplane debris in and around the impact point?

Would you accept the "official" account and disregard all of these "anomalies", or would you claim the north-of-CITGO/fly-over is an "obvious lie"?

 

[Corsair 115]

Immediately and from the top, diving into the middle.

Diving an aircraft successfully is actually hard. You have to carefully manage your airspeed lest you overstress the airframe. With the rapid increase in speed you have much less time to correct your flightpath if you are not properly lined up on target. A shallow approach is actually considerably easier for a lower-skilled pilot to accomplish.

For reference, I would recommend reading up about the differences between dive bombing and glide bombing during WWII.

 

[I Am He]

What is this suppose to mean, Lyte "We do not believe for a second that AA77 flew over or impacted the Pentagon."??? It flew to the north of the Citco Station, it flew up over the fireball you said. Now it wasn't even there?! Then what in hell happened to it?? Did the Pentagon just blow up by itself?? It could not be another plane, because you already said that there was no other plane. All you seem to be doing is burring yourself in lies. Not that anyone could not see that, except yourself, of course.

 

[aggle-rithm]

Perhaps Lyte's 4 witnesses are government shills, instructed to distract Lyte and his Citizens Investigation Team from discovering the REAL conspiracy. Which is of course to keep marijuana illegal, thereby propping up prices, so the government gets a nice cut every time Lyte "lytes" up.

ITS POSSIBLE SO IT MUST BE TRUE!

I think they're all part of the evil Citgo Coalition.

 

[T.A.M.]

12 days since Lyte confirmed to me he had given his evidence to authorities for investigation.

TWELVE DAYS LYTE

TAM

 

[twinstead]

I think they're all part of the evil Citgo Coalition.

Ah, the ECC. Of course you realize we will have to kill you for even mentioning the Coalition, don't you?

 

[aggle-rithm]

Ah, the ECC. Of course you realize we will have to kill you for even mentioning the Coalition, don't you?

Drat.

 

[jaydeehess]

I really must reiterate;

Quote:
Originally Posted by jaydeehess

Put another way, how can a person who believes that the impact occured at the same time as or shortly after the fireball also believe that the fireball occured BEFORE the impact?


Quote:
Lyte posts;
I don't know what you are getting at

Oh come on,,,, Ok

Your interpretation of Robert's statement is that he saw the plane rise over the signage while heading towards the Pentagon, THEN it was obscured by the fireball. Robert says it was "still" obscured when it hit the Pentagon, thus indicating (by your interpretation of what he says) that the fireball occured in advance of the plane hitting the Pentagon.

But Robert finds nothing to say about this being an unsual timing, having the fireball occur first, then impact. Robert is quite convinced that the plane did indeed hit the building as well and most people would have to assume that the fireball occurs as a result of the impact which would mean that it simply would never be described, by anyone who actually believes that the plane crashed, as "still" obscuring the view when impact occured.

Lyte, how can you continue to expect anyone to believe that Robert, who knows the plane hit the Pentagon, could have the fireball occuring well before impact?

Why did you not ask anyone where they had thought the plane impacted, lower floors or upper floors?

 

[gumboot]

One of the things that the CT' slike to use is that the wing that was hit was less occupied than other areas and thus caused fewer victims on the ground and then saying that this must have been the exact place that had been planned to be hit by the evil gov't conspirators and thus describing hitting that spot as having to thread the needle.

The stupid thing is this isn't even true. The section that was hit had been completed, and was at full capacity on 9/11. It was the adjacent section that was being renovated at the time and was partially vacated.

The reality is the side of The Pentagon that was hit was the side directly facing the direction AA77 came from. Frankly I would find it mildly suspicious if AA77 hadn't hit that side.

And I'd like to take this opportunity to remind Lyte Trip that The Pentagon is the largest office building in the entire world, by a considerable margin.

-Gumboot

 

[jaydeehess]

And I'd like to take this opportunity to remind Lyte Trip that The Pentagon is the largest office building in the entire world, by a considerable margin.

-Gumboot

Making it the biggest eye of a needle that anyone could care to consider.

There is another thread here entitled something like "what do these buildings have in common"

This question applies to the three buildings hit on Sept 11/01 as well. What they have in common is their size and unigue shape , as seen from the air. The towers stuck out as the highest objects on the horizon for the inbound terrorist pilots while the Pentagon is obviously a unigue shaped, very large building surrounded by lawns and parking loots and situated alongside a major river.


If in fact (in my case it is a guess)the plane was using the VOR at Reagan Airport then it would show in the FDR as his maintaining a track aimed at the VOR until he veered off for the final turn into the Pentagon. Do those who have studied the FDR data know if the VOR heading remains the same for some time up to veering off for the final turn? If he was using visual aids then he likely was looking along the Potomac for his target.

 

[aggle-rithm]

Making it the biggest eye of a needle that anyone could care to consider.

There's a reason that every target of the hijackers was extremely easy to see from the air -- in fact, they would have been difficult to miss. That's why the White House was crossed off the list of potential targets; the hijackers might have been flying around for hours trying to find it.

I also think it's pretty funny how it supposedly takes an experienced pilot to turn a plane around. Out of all the controls in the cockpit, the one that turns the plane around has to be the easiest one to figure out...

 

[Calcas]

There's a reason that every target of the hijackers was extremely easy to see from the air -- in fact, they would have been difficult to miss. That's why the White House was crossed off the list of potential targets; the hijackers might have been flying around for hours trying to find it.

I also think it's pretty funny how it supposedly takes an experienced pilot to turn a plane around. Out of all the controls in the cockpit, the one that turns the plane around has to be the easiest one to figure out...

AAL 77 Autoflight Activity

Figure 1 shows a time history of the various autopilot and autothrottle modes engaged on Flight 77, from takeoff from Dulles airport to the end of the DFDR data at impact with the Pentagon. Also shown in the Figure are the values of speeds, altitudes, headings, and Mach that the airplane flew. The values set in the MCP by the pilots (both the American Airlines pilots and the hijack pilots) had a recording error when recorded on the DFDR, and could not be determined.

For most of the flight, until after the hijackers turned the airplane back towards Washington, both the Captain’s and First Officer’s Flight Directors were on. During the takeoff, the autopilot was off, and the Flight Director was issuing roll commands based on inputs made in the MCP, and pitch commands based on inputs coming alternatively from the FMC (when in
VNAV mode) or from the MCP (when in Altitude Hold or Flight Change modes).

Once the flight was cleared to its 35,000 ft. cruising altitude, the autopilot was engaged in LNAV and VNAV modes, which use inputs from the FMC to guide the airplane along the desired horizontal and vertical flight path. During the ascent, and while at the cruise altitude, the right (First Officer’s) autopilot was engaged, and heading select mode was used to maneuver the
airplane horizontally.

The autothrottle was engaged throughout the initial part of the flight. During the climb the autothrottle mode varied between climb thrust mode, airspeed hold mode, flight level change mode, and Mach mode. Upon reaching the cruise altitudes, first at 33,000 feet, then 35,000 feet, the autothrottle switched to a Mach number hold cruise mode, applying thrust to
achieve a Mach number of 0.83.

A few minutes after the hijackers took control of the cockpit (at approximately 08:52), the horizontal mode was changed to a heading select and the airplane began a 180-degree turn back towards Washington. After the new heading was selected, and up until the last nine minutes of the flight, the autopilot operated in modes that receive inputs from the MCP (i.e.,
target values of altitude, speed, and heading set directly by the operators of the aircraft) rather than from the FMC. The autopilot was off for the last eight minutes of the flight. For the remainder of the flight, the horizontal mode remained in heading select and the vertical mode was operated in altitude hold, altitude, or flight level change mode. Similarly, the
autothrottle remained in either airspeed mode or mach mode, except during times of flight level changes.


At about 09:08, after a flight level change was initiated from 25,000 feet, the First Officer’s flight director, the autopilot, and the autothrottle all disengaged. This disengagement was concurrent with a right (First Officer’s) autopilot warning. The autopilot remained off for approximately two minutes, and then re-engaged on the left side (Captain’s side). The autopilot disengaged again, concurrent with an autopilot warning on the left side. After about a half a minute of disengagement, the left autopilot was re-engaged and the autothrottle was re-engaged soon after. Over the next ten minutes, the autothrottle was engaged and disengaged several times, while the aircraft remained at 25,000 feet, until remaining engaged in the flight level change mode during descent from 25,000 feet.

At approximately 9:29, while at an altitude of 7000 feet and approximately 30 nautical miles from Washington Reagan National Airport, the autopilot and autothrottle were disengaged. These remained off during the 360-degree, descending turn to impact with the Pentagon.

AAL 77 Navigation System Activity

Figure 3 shows the VOR stations tuned to by the two VOR receivers on American Flight 77.
The EFIS mode determines the type of display shown on the EHSI. During the initial part of
the flight, the EFIS is in “MAP” mode. In this mode, the EHSI displays an airplane symbol
pointed towards the top of the display, with the magnetic heading and track shown in a
partial compass rose at the top of the display. Various points of interest - VOR stations,
fixes, airports, and so on - can be displayed in their correct position relative to the airplane.
The planned and projected route of flight can also be displayed in the MAP mode. The
range of the MAP mode can be adjusted from 5 miles to 160 nautical miles, depending on
the detail or scale of map required. At about 09:08:20, the display switched to VOR mode; in
this mode, the EHSI displays the airplane’s angular deviation or position relative to a
specified radial from the selected VOR.

The points during the flight at which the VOR receivers were tuned to new frequencies are
shown on the map in Figure 2 as yellow diamonds. The points shown occur after the
hijackers took control of the cockpit. Lines from the airplane flight path to the stations
indicate the VOR stations tuned by the left and right VOR receivers. The point on the flight
path from which the lines originate are the points at which the station was first tuned, i.e., the
points at which the VOR station frequency selected by each receiver changed.
Note that while the EFIS was initially in MAP mode, the left and right VOR receivers were
tuned to stations whose bearings from the airplane differed by about 90 degrees, at the time
at which the VOR station pairs were changed. This illustrates the method the system uses
for obtaining VOR position fixes to update the INS.
During the turn back to the east, the frequency of the right VOR receiver was set to 111.0
MHz, corresponding to the VOR station located at Washington Reagan National Airport
(DCA). At the time the DCA frequency was selected, the station was too far away for its
signals to be received by the receiver. The right VOR receiver remained tuned to the DCA
VOR for the remainder of the flight, except for a 1-minute period at 9:15. The left VOR
receiver was tuned to various frequencies, but was tuned to 113.5 (AML in Herndon, VA near
Dulles Airport) at approximately 9:08. At approximately 9:18, the left distance measuring
equipment (DME) began receiving information from the AML VOR. After receiving the DME
signal, the airplane remained on a constant heading towards the Washington area. At 9:32,
both VOR receivers were tuned to the DCA VOR.

http://www.ntsb.gov/info/autopilot_AA77_UA93_study.pdf