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20 People Shot Dead on Virginia Tech Campus

The fact remains, this event has nothing to do with gun control and those people, especially those in the european press, who are trying to make it into a gun control issue are simply exploiting the deaths of these people to further their political agenda. It's pretty sickening actually.
 
What I'm getting at is this: With whatever info the school's higher-ups received about this guy and all olf the concern, is there anything that they could have done to stop these murders from occurring?
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I think it's hard to deter criminals that have a deathwish in the end. I'm not sure you can detain people for thinking disturbing things; only doing them. Maybe they could have searched for a gun; but he just bought the damn things, so would that have even helped?

I know at my school, from personal experience, in can be hard to get into see a psychologist, think a month or more. I'd image the mental healthcare at another state school in another state would be just as lacking.

Sometimes crazy people do crazy things and in a free society, I don't think it is always possible to stop them.
 
Tony said:
The fact remains, this event has nothing to do with gun control and those people, especially those in the european press, who are trying to make it into a gun control issue are simply exploiting the deaths of these people to further their political agenda. It's pretty sickening actually.
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I think it's pretty sickening too. I don't think this case scores points for any political hack. This gentleman was so disturbed it seems, I do not think it is unreasonable to believe that he would have found a way to get ahold of some guns. On the other hand having more than one, ununiformed person packing heat, and shooting, on a university campus sounds like a recipe for disaster. Further, the gun laws were liberal enough, that it did not seem the shooter had any trouble aquiring guns legally.


I don't think this case has anything to offer in regards to gun control. More its a condemnation of the state of mental healthcare in this country.
 
Katana said:
That last part was unbelievable.



So this guy was setting off alarm bells left and right, but the fact that the students worried about him becoming a school shooter specifically is just chilling.

People in the media keep talking about how things like this might be prevented - how we need to be aware of people in our midst who might pose a threat. Well, that's all well and good, but what power did the "administrators" who received info about this guy have?

Had they gone to the police, what could they have done? I suppose they could have talked to him at least, but, even if they learned he had a gun (although I read that Virginia doesn't have a gun registry), what then? It's not like they could charge him with anything or follow him around 24 hours a day because folks worried that he might commit a crime. Not that their concerns aren't valid (obviously they were).

What I'm getting at is this: With whatever info the school's higher-ups received about this guy and all olf the concern, is there anything that they could have done to stop these murders from occurring?
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Schools can only take real steps if the student is a danger to himself or others. I doubt violent plays, no matter how disturbing, could be enough evidence. Unless, of course, the plays were realistic and threatening.

I, for instance, wrote a short story about killing one of my teachers. But it was all a joke and was intentionally humorous (It was in Law and we had to write about a murder using vocabulary terms).

Speaking as a "strange" kid, I had many people in my classes joke about me being a shooter. Perhaps I could use this as evidence that there really are no warning signs. But I am quiet because I have Social Anxiety Disorder, so maybe we should start investigating "strange" kids.

As a student, I have encountered quite a few scary kids. I mean scary. I recall a guy who wore three watches (One of them for the time until the nuclear holocaust) and liked to follow girls around and play with their hair (Against their will, of course)...

****ing creepy ****.

Other students and I went to the school authorities. However, they were useless.
 
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Tony said:
The fact remains, this event has nothing to do with gun control and those people, especially those in the european press, who are trying to make it into a gun control issue are simply exploiting the deaths of these people to further their political agenda. It's pretty sickening actually.
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What "fact"? How to you measure that "fact"?

The more guns in a country the more nuts with guns.

Its really that simple.
 
LawnOven said:
Well he obviously didn't get the help that he needed. I probably phrased that sentence badly. I meant to imply that I thought this had more to do with mental health than gun control, if anything.
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Ah. That I agree with. He clearly had mental health issues (understatement, I realize).

As you can tell, though, I'm just struggling with what we should or what we can do next time. What do we do with the next Cho?

We can't force mental health care on him unless (as has been pointed out) he's a demonstrable threat to himself or others. He hasn't committed a crime YET. What can we do?
 
Bodhi Dharma Zen said:
The more guns in a country the more nuts with guns.

Its really that simple.
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"The more cops in a country, the more nuts that are cops.

It's really that simple."

Does the statement above make for an argument against the police or for a decrease in the amount of police officers? No. Your "argument" is sophistry.

What "fact"? How to you measure that "fact"?
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I measure that fact by acknowledging that this guy was a nut-case before he picked up a gun. Having the gun in his hand didn't magically cause him to go on a killing spree.
 
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Katana said:
We can't force mental health care on him unless (as has been pointed out) he's a demonstrable threat to himself or others. He hasn't committed a crime YET. What can we do?
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In a word (or six), force mental health care on him. The warning signs were there. That should at least earn an evalutaion. If he's just a strange kid, fine, we apologise for the inconvenience.

Or we can just live with another one every coupla years. At least they tend to do us the courtesy of keeping their recidivism rate low.
 
Katana said:
Ah. That I agree with. He clearly had mental health issues (understatement, I realize).

As you can tell, though, I'm just struggling with what we should or what we can do next time. What do we do with the next Cho?

We can't force mental health care on him unless (as has been pointed out) he's a demonstrable threat to himself or others. He hasn't committed a crime YET. What can we do?
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Yeah, I don't have a clue. I guess I would just hope that this sort of behavior could be noted before it turns completely violent and dark. Annual phycological evaluations for everyone? Like a phyisical.

I think mental healthcare, in general, is diffcult to force on anyone, just by its very nature.

So maybe, instead of mental healthcare or gun control, this was a condemnation of free societies in general. :)
 
Tony said:
"The more cops in a country, the more nuts that are cops.

It's really that simple."

Does the statement above make for an argument against the police or for a decrease in the amount of police officers? No. Your "argument" is sophistry.
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LOL!

Nope. My argument is easy to understand and obvious. You are the one playing with words.

Cops have special training, are hand picked so to speak. Get real. And dont take it personal.
 
The Central Scrutinizer said:
I blame Bush.
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I'll add it to the list.

So far we have the blame going to
  • abortion (parent of a Columbine victim)
  • the ban on school prayer (multiple sites)
  • gun control
  • no gun control
  • homosexuals (Phelps' usual rant)
  • evil (for whatever reason God doesn't interfere)
  • God (for reasons unknown, not punishment as claimed by Phelps, et al., and because obviously he controls these things)
  • the university for not warning people and/or closing the campus down
  • the police for not assuming a murder in a dorm meant a madman was possibly on his way to a shooting rampage
  • Bush

Did I leave anything/one out?

Oh yeah, the shooter.
 
Marquis de Carabas said:
In a word (or six), force mental health care on him. The warning signs were there. That should at least earn an evalutaion. If he's just a strange kid, fine, we apologise for the inconvenience.
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What evidence would be sufficient to do so? You're talking about physically restraining him (assuming that he wouldn't want to do this and would try to up & leave) and then subjecting him to an involuntary evaluation. Not small things.

Having said that, I hear you in feeling a bit of a "better safe than sorry" attitude about this.
 
Mephisto said:
Well, the one thing I'm sure we can all agree on in this thread is that the MODS are putting in overtime. :)

Welcome ThinBlueLine. :) It'll be good to have the input of another police officer on the forum (Bikewer is also in law enforcement).
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Appreciate the welcome.
 
LawnOven said:
Yeah, I don't have a clue. I guess I would just hope that this sort of behavior could be noted before it turns completely violent and dark. Annual phycological evaluations for everyone? Like a phyisical.

I think mental healthcare, in general, is diffcult to force on anyone, just by its very nature.

So maybe, instead of mental healthcare or gun control, this was a condemnation of free societies in general. :)
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:D
 
Marquis de Carabas said:
In a word (or six), force mental health care on him. The warning signs were there. That should at least earn an evalutaion. If he's just a strange kid, fine, we apologise for the inconvenience.

Or we can just live with another one every coupla years. At least they tend to do us the courtesy of keeping their recidivism rate low.
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I'm not sure you can force mental health care on someone. I suppose you could do, forced medication, but medication is usually just part of the equation. And this gentleman was obviously very, very disturbed. I think it's hard to treat someone who has no desire to feel better in the first place.

Not to unnessesarily drag his parents into this, but I wonder what his homelife was like. I wonder what his like was like before he moved to the united states. All that anger must have come from somewhere; right? Or maybe he was born crazy, I think that happens sometimes.
 
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