432 shows harmony of Sun, Moon, Earth Design

[Jiri]

Paradigm change

Yes it is clearly opposed, by archaeological and textual evidence. You are talking about a culture where the common people were still working with little pieces of sharpened stone tied to sticks.

Yes, common people. There were also some very uncommon people around, top-level initiates of the Egyptian temple, and guardians of its secrets.
Pythagoras was one despite not being Egyptian. He was also the top scientist of his time, and our modern civilisation owes him a lot for its very existence. Like so many Greeks, Pythagoras had gained his knowledge in Egypt. It seems that we owe a lot to the Egyptian temple for preserving its secrets for us. But, look at you doing the opposite, pooh poohing everything.

Maybe few archaeologists come out and write against Dunn, but why waste the time, there is a big difference between having one's work unopposed (because its just obvious bunk) and having it actually supported.

Now you pass a weakness for a virtue. In essence Dunn doesn't say anything different than Flinders Petrie, who is a recognized authority. "Egyptians used lathes, and they seemed more proficient at lathing and drilling stone than we are. Paradigm change? Certainly an Achilles heel of the modern Egyptology. If they could do this, why could they not do other things as well, as well? No archaeologist or Egyptologist will delve into this subject willingly, that is a fact.
So, it is too bad that Dunn must compromise his good work thusly.The Giza Powerplant is a flight of fancy, which probably was designed to bring in profit from sensationalism.
**************
Egyptology has so many Achilles heels, it must be a centipede

 

[Paulhoff]

"Egyptians used lathes, and they seemed more proficient at lathing and drilling stone than we are.

Oh please.............show me where..........not saying what they did wasn't good, but please..............your computer has things in it that are far beyond any precision that they were capable of.

Paul

 

[Jiri]

Oh please.............show me where..........not saying what they did wasn't good, but please..............your computer has things in it that are far beyond any precision that they were capable of.

Paul

...
There are some things Egyptians were routinely capable of, which we cannot imitate. We could, but it would put too much strain on our resources, so we cannot. Well, it should have been an even greater strain on their resources, an impossible strain sometimes, like the Great Pyramid, because their resources were miniscule in comparison to ours.
They must have worked with efficiency greater than ours.

 

[Hokulele]

OK, since Jiri has made it clear that he refuses to understand why his numbers are bogus, it is time to get to the final act so we can get this whole thing over with.

The Atlanteans did it. You got it, Jiri really just wants to talk about Atlantis and has been setting everyone up for it all along.

Since this topic is even less interesting than numerology, I will bow out at this point and let the rest of you clean up when it is over. Last one to leave this thread, please turn out the lights.

ETA: Oh, and Happy Birthday to ReligionStudent!

 

[Gord_in_Toronto]

Its nice to see all you birds of the same feather getting along when you speak the same thing and follow the same party lines and obey what you have been taught to obey.

Anyway, let's get back to 432 and its truth HARMONICALLY.

This research you absolutely refuse to do because it shows design.... and the majority of you hate design, you prefer chaos.

Could you possibly be even more inarticulate? I'm making a word soup and your posts are very useful.

Thank you.

 

[jsfisher]

...
There are some things Egyptians were routinely capable of, which we cannot imitate.

You are moving the goal posts, Jiri.

You made a specific claims regarding lathing and drilling stone. The claims were challenged, so it becomes incumbent on you, the claimant, to support the claims with evidence, or retract them.

 

[bruto]

Yes, common people. There were also some very uncommon people around, top-level initiates of the Egyptian temple, and guardians of its secrets.
Pythagoras was one despite not being Egyptian. He was also the top scientist of his time, and our modern civilisation owes him a lot for its very existence. Like so many Greeks, Pythagoras had gained his knowledge in Egypt. It seems that we owe a lot to the Egyptian temple for preserving its secrets for us. But, look at you doing the opposite, pooh poohing everything.



Now you pass a weakness for a virtue. In essence Dunn doesn't say anything different than Flinders Petrie, who is a recognized authority. "Egyptians used lathes, and they seemed more proficient at lathing and drilling stone than we are. Paradigm change? Certainly an Achilles heel of the modern Egyptology. If they could do this, why could they not do other things as well, as well? No archaeologist or Egyptologist will delve into this subject willingly, that is a fact.
So, it is too bad that Dunn must compromise his good work thusly.The Giza Powerplant is a flight of fancy, which probably was designed to bring in profit from sensationalism.
**************
Egyptology has so many Achilles heels, it must be a centipede

A lathe is not really very exotic engineering, clever though it is. It's possible to design a bow or spring driven lathe using relatively simple components, which will accomplish work of dazzling symmetry, belying the simplicity of the tool. I haven't looked into it much, but I would not be surprised to find that the Egyptians used lathes, and not terribly surprised if it turned out they invented them. To suggest that skilful lathe work or stone drilling equates to something exotic that we cannot duplicate today, however, is just total BS.

As it happens, unfortunately, I am without power and without high speed internet access tonight (Damn and double-damn those skeptics for suppressing the technology of storm proof pyramid generators for every back yard!), so I can't do a lot of hunting, but I googled, and the first site I got was this one: about egyptian lathe work, which suggests that while the techniques were very clever, and very labor intensive, they can be figured out, and the work duplicated.

There is also, remember, a vast difference between saying "we still don't know exactly how they did it, or what abrasives, tools etc. they used," and saying "we don't know a way to do the same thing." The former statement appears to be true, and interesting. But it does not in any way imply the latter. If you think otherwise, you do not understand what precision work is.

Good night, and Jiri, if those pyramid generators work, you could make a really good living producing them. You wouldn't even have to manufacture them. Just advertise the plans in the back of Popular Science. Go for it, man! You'd win a Nobel Prize if you got it to work.

Seriously, as far as I'm concerned, if an author puts that kind of crap into a book, it discredits the author and the book. You're incredibly gullible if you think that a person who tells whopping lies in one part of the book can be trusted to be telling the truth in another, simply because you've not detected all the lies at the same time!

 

[Jiri]

http://www.geoman.com/jim/pyramid.html

You are moving the goal posts, Jiri.

You made a specific claims regarding lathing and drilling stone. The claims were challenged, so it becomes incumbent on you, the claimant, to support the claims with evidence, or retract them.

I was going to dig up a couple references, but I got stuck at this article. Still reading, but I have already determined that it is suitable for your consumption. So far, this guy seems to be speaking my mind.
http://www.geoman.com/jim/pyramid.html

 

[ReligionStudent]

Yes, common people. There were also some very uncommon people around, top-level initiates of the Egyptian temple, and guardians of its secrets.
Pythagoras was one despite not being Egyptian. He was also the top scientist of his time, and our modern civilisation owes him a lot for its very existence. Like so many Greeks, Pythagoras had gained his knowledge in Egypt. It seems that we owe a lot to the Egyptian temple for preserving its secrets for us. But, look at you doing the opposite, pooh poohing everything.

The elite of the pyrimid age had bronze at best. They were not mysteriously magically powered and able to make power plants. What would they have used this mysterious power for anyway? Last time I checked it does not take electric power for a pot to hold water.

Now you pass a weakness for a virtue. In essence Dunn doesn't say anything different than Flinders Petrie, who is a recognized authority. "Egyptians used lathes, and they seemed more proficient at lathing and drilling stone than we are. Paradigm change? Certainly an Achilles heel of the modern Egyptology. If they could do this, why could they not do other things as well, as well? No archaeologist or Egyptologist will delve into this subject willingly, that is a fact.
So, it is too bad that Dunn must compromise his good work thusly.The Giza Powerplant is a flight of fancy, which probably was designed to bring in profit from sensationalism.
**************
Egyptology has so many Achilles heels, it must be a centipede

No archaeologist says today that they were more acomplished at drilling stone. They just accept that Egyptians put a lot of time and effort into it. It helps when you have an enourmous work force. We are talking about a people that took days or weeks to drill a stone beed for a necklace.

And I am sorry, you are backing up someone who's work is questionable at best by attempting to make excuses for his back archaeology and write it of. This is his recent work, which he still supports enough to pay for web space for. If anything he seems to be moving past earlier work.

 

[ReligionStudent]

...
There are some things Egyptians were routinely capable of, which we cannot imitate. We could, but it would put too much strain on our resources, so we cannot. Well, it should have been an even greater strain on their resources, an impossible strain sometimes, like the Great Pyramid, because their resources were miniscule in comparison to ours.
They must have worked with efficiency greater than ours.

You miss one of the main points of modern understanding of Egyptian history. The pyramids were only built during the Old Kingdom and then vanish from Egyptian culture (as far as the necessity to build them). This is because they were overtaxing the Egyptian society as well. Their resources were not miniscule compared to ours. They had a workforce unimagionable by togays standards and resources almost completely controlled by the pharoah and the royal family. Their bronze tools, access too good stone, and the work force were all focused in this minute pinacle of their population.

And we could build the pyramids without breaking the bank. Think how much more complex and amazing an office building is. The Egyptians, even if they had your unimagionable tools and such build wadle and daub houses.

 

[ReligionStudent]

I was going to dig up a couple references, but I got stuck at this article. Still reading, but I have already determined that it is suitable for your consumption. So far, this guy seems to be speaking my mind.
http://www.geoman.com/jim/pyramid.html

Yay a refference that you havn't read, and obviously was not the support you were talking about before.

Again it is online and not from a reviewed journal.

 

[ReligionStudent]

OK, since Jiri has made it clear that he refuses to understand why his numbers are bogus, it is time to get to the final act so we can get this whole thing over with.

The Atlanteans did it. You got it, Jiri really just wants to talk about Atlantis and has been setting everyone up for it all along.

Since this topic is even less interesting than numerology, I will bow out at this point and let the rest of you clean up when it is over. Last one to leave this thread, please turn out the lights.

ETA: Oh, and Happy Birthday to ReligionStudent!

Thanks for the Happy Bday

 

[JonnyFive]

You surprize me, according to you I haven't posted any evidence, so how could I post more of it? It must be that you cannot express yourself properly.

You have claimed that what you've posted so far is evidence. I'll humor you.

Also, I said "additional," so if you'd like to be snippy about language, I would point out that in the context of your having posted no evidence, posting additional evidence would involve you posting some evidence.

The key word here is occult, which could probably be related to religious. A top-notch mathematician like Einstein can at the same time be a numerologist, I hope you realize that?

No, because he provided proofs for what he claimed, and detailed explanations for how he came to his conclusions that other mathematicians could follow, check, and validate.

Occult doesn't necessarily imply religion. It implies that something is secret or magical. You're claiming (or appear to be claiming) that the numbers have a special meaning to them (beyond, say, pi being related to the area or circumference of a circle, and beyond their standard mathematical relationships).

Of course, your lack of numeracy would preclude you from seeing it in the Stone-Age Frame, which could justly be called "Etudes on Numeracy". It really is nonsense to you. You refuse to see the phenomenon for what it definitely is - a stupendous anomaly. So, what exactly is the point in me talking to you?

Belittling me will not make your theories any more true, or convince anyone here that they are true.

No, I ask you to provide evidence that you have measured accurately, and that you have in fact found something significant, and you find this objectionable for some reason. You haven't even bothered to try to validate this against the original piece. So, why exactly should I believe you?

You don't need to talk to me at all. But be aware that so far you haven't convinced a single person here you're right. They have the same concerns that I do with your theories and methodology, and they ask for the same things.

 

[ReligionStudent]

Of course, your lack of numeracy would preclude you from seeing it in the Stone-Age Frame, which could justly be called "Etudes on Numeracy". It really is nonsense to you. You refuse to see the phenomenon for what it definitely is - a stupendous anomaly. So, what exactly is the point in me talking to you?

A) Because something is an anomaly does not mean it was designed as such, there is still chance.

B) You have failed to show that this was in fact chance, which you are then reading your own numbers into

C) You have failed to illustrate the special tools of Egyptians that you claim existed

D) You have failed to show that they could include the level of accuracy you claim, and which you say would be beyond their ability to produce using the known tools of EB Egyptians.

 

[Jiri]

The elite of the pyrimid age had bronze at best. They were not mysteriously magically powered and able to make power plants. What would they have used this mysterious power for anyway? Last time I checked it does not take electric power for a pot to hold water.

The Egyptian temple had a dual character. It combined religion with science, obviously. At the same time it was an educational institution, widely sought after by students from Greece, and elsewhere. Look at Pythagoras, Solon, Plato, as some of the better known names - all got their higher education un Egypt. Dispensing education like that really paints Egypt in a progressive, and modern light. I could imagine that there might have been workshops, practically labs near the temples. You never know what comes out of a lab. Anyway, it is thought that the temples held secret knowledge. If we found out today what it was, would we be in a bit of shock? The Abydos Helicopter dossier, for instance ..

No archaeologist says today that they were more acomplished at drilling stone. They just accept that Egyptians put a lot of time and effort into it. It helps when you have an enourmous work force.

The resulting bottlenecks, however let through one camel at a time Petrie describes I think the drill core #7, as having grooves, which showed an incredible rate of descent per rotation. Dunn found a whole bunch of similar fascinating examples. He noticed that some drilling bore deeper into the quartz crystals than the softer elements. That's what happens in ultrasound drilling, he says. Since this assertion is highly verifiable, I don't see why he would make it up. What hand tool would produce similar marks?

On the other hand, don't trust the Egyptologists when they allege that they have the pyramid building pretty well solved. They don't. The amount of work, which needs to be done is staggering, and working with stone is a major part of it all, but not all. The Egyptologists had woven a nice yarn altogether. Some parts of it are just hilarious illusions like the 'collapse theory" on the Meidum pyramid by Snefferu.

And I am sorry, you are backing up someone who's work is questionable at best by attempting to make excuses for his back archaeology and write it of. This is his recent work, which he still supports enough to pay for web space for. If anything he seems to be moving past earlier work.

Yes, you put that very aptly 'moving past earlier work', degrading from empirical to highly speculative. Yeah, very iffy, and flighty, I know, but not dishonest. The generator certainly beats the "pyramid was a giant waterpump" theory.

 

[Belz...]

No lineholders in sight...

 

[Paulhoff]

No lineholders in sight...

Oh, you want evidence, you fact finder.

Paul

 

[Psiload]

...snip... You never know what comes out of a lab. Anyway, it is thought that the temples held secret knowledge. If we found out today what it was, would we be in a bit of shock? The Abydos Helicopter dossier, for instance. ...snip...

The only thing I find shocking, is that you, an adult, would actually entertain the notion that the ancient Egyptians invented the helicopter.

Jiri... that's just silly.

 

[Jiri]

You miss one of the main points of modern understanding of Egyptian history. The pyramids were only built during the Old Kingdom and then vanish from Egyptian culture (as far as the necessity to build them).

No, the later pyramids just got smaller, and much shoddier. There is a question what was built in Egyptian prehistory. How old are the several levels of blocks exceeding 60 tons in weight and more in Chephren's pyramid? What about the core of the Meidum pyramid? It looks finished. Was it once the outside of a steep tall tower? When was it built? What about other structures in Egypt, which look to be much older than the OK era?

This is because they were overtaxing the Egyptian society as well. Their resources were not miniscule compared to ours. They had a workforce unimagionable by togays standards and resources almost completely controlled by the pharoah and the royal family.

You lose me there. Do you know how many people were alive at that time in the world? How many in Egypt? Check the estimates, it might be a bit of a shock to you how few people had shared the planet 5,000 years ago.
The logistics demands themselves are too much. People tend to underestimate logistics. Not the best example, but take Goering's promise to supply the encircled army at Staligrad by air. He could do it on some days, but a lot of things went wrong on other days, and doing it day after day was different than just doing it for a short time.
Similarly, the Egyptians had to plan for a fleet of ships just to ferry in the Lebanese cedar. They had to ensure a constant flow of stone blocks. They had to take care of sanitation, disease outbreaks, adverse weather would stop all the work, too. Some aspects of the pyramid construction aren't figured out at all, even if Arnold Dieter thinks otherwise. .

 

[Psiload]

No, the later pyramids just got smaller, and much shoddier. There is a question what was built in Egyptian prehistory. How old are the several levels of blocks exceeding 60 tons in weight and more in Chephren's pyramid? What about the core of the Meidum pyramid? It looks finished. Was it once the outside of a steep tall tower? When was it built? What about other structures in Egypt, which look to be much older than the OK era?



You lose me there. Do you know how many people were alive at that time in the world? How many in Egypt? Check the estimates, it might be a bit of a shock to you how few people had shared the planet 5,000 years ago.
The logistics demands themselves are too much. People tend to underestimate logistics. Not the best example, but take Goering's promise to supply the encircled army at Staligrad by air. He could do it on some days, but a lot of things went wrong on other days, and doing it day after day was different than just doing it for a short time.
Similarly, the Egyptians had to plan for a fleet of ships just to ferry in the Lebanese cedar. They had to ensure a constant flow of stone blocks. They had to take care of sanitation, disease outbreaks, adverse weather would stop all the work, too. Some aspects of the pyramid construction aren't figured out at all, even if Arnold Dieter thinks otherwise. .

So, what's your alternative theory? Fleets of helicopters?