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NIST Petition Demands Corrections

Arkan_Wolfshade said:
Apparently, MM missed this the first time around


Also, MM, if you dislike the posters in this subforum so much, why are you still posting in it?
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That is an excellent question Arkan Wolfshade!

I've had a lifelong hatred of bullys and people who use bullying tactics!

Victimizing people whom you folks disagree with is a favourite sport here. Usually you get away with it without paying a price..a few pats on the back amongst yourselves as Dr. Greening would say.

When Apollo20 made an appearance in the Debate! What debate? thread, it was fascinating to watch the JREF responses shift as it dawned on the group that they might be shooting themselves in the foot. It started with JREFers being somewhat patronizing and arrogant. Apollo20 reacted defensively since he obviously didn't appreciate such a response to his initial presentation. At that point the JREF group response began to kick in with mockery, sock puppet accusations and general ridicule. Later on in the thread, the quality of Apollo's responses began to alert some members of the group to the fact that they might have a celebrity in their midst. Someone they might not want to treat badly as it might bite them back. Amazingly, respect began to appear in responses to Apollo's posts and for a period of time the thread flowed the way one would hope to see a quality JREF Conspiracy Forum thread proceed. Intelligent thoughtful communication amongst key members actively pursuing a better understanding of things they held an honest curiosity about. It all fell apart when some absentee members, possibly Enigma was close to being the first, dropped into the thread without bothering to follow it's history first. Smear comments against Apollo were made, it was a rude awakening and he naturally reacted like he'd been slapped in the face. Things never returned to that brief quality period after that.

It's really unfortunate that this had to happen, because I know there are a lot of quality people here, but they seem to have become trapped by their community loyalty.

I know I'm always accused of never having anything significant to contribute. Well I don't think that's true. I make my strongest efforts where they will be seen and responded to in a mostly civil manner. I enjoy a good exchange of thoughts, but I will not waste my time and energy setting a nice table just so some bullies can crap all over it for the amusement of their comrades.

I come here because it gives me exposure to opposing points of view, regardless of how bigoted they might be.

It's also a hope that I might hear a good case for dismissing my own belief that 9/11 was an inside job.

It's also hard to just lurk.

MM
 
I am going to repeat something from my recent announcement:

For Members that mainly post in this section of the JREF Forum I have some very specific comments:

...snip...

Secondly there is not a JREF Forum "position" or "policy" on the events of “9/11” or any other conspiracy theories – no Member posting here speaks for the JREF organization or for Randi and the only people who speak for the JREF Forum are the Moderating Team and that is only when acting in their official capacity.​

...snip...
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Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Darat
 
Miragememories said:
That is an excellent question Arkan Wolfshade!

I've had a lifelong hatred of bullys and people who use bullying tactics!

Victimizing people whom you folks disagree with is a favourite sport here. Usually you get away with it without paying a price..a few pats on the back amongst yourselves as Dr. Greening would say.

When Apollo20 made an appearance in the Debate! What debate? thread, it was fascinating to watch the JREF responses shift as it dawned on the group that they might be shooting themselves in the foot. It started with JREFers being somewhat patronizing and arrogant. Apollo20 reacted defensively since he obviously didn't appreciate such a response to his initial presentation. At that point the JREF group response began to kick in with mockery, sock puppet accusations and general ridicule. Later on in the thread, the quality of Apollo's responses began to alert some members of the group to the fact that they might have a celebrity in their midst. Someone they might not want to treat badly as it might bite them back. Amazingly, respect began to appear in responses to Apollo's posts and for a period of time the thread flowed the way one would hope to see a quality JREF Conspiracy Forum thread proceed. Intelligent thoughtful communication amongst key members actively pursuing a better understanding of things they held an honest curiosity about. It all fell apart when some absentee members, possibly Enigma was close to being the first, dropped into the thread without bothering to follow it's history first. Smear comments against Apollo were made, it was a rude awakening and he naturally reacted like he'd been slapped in the face. Things never returned to that brief quality period after that.

It's really unfortunate that this had to happen, because I know there are a lot of quality people here, but they seem to have become trapped by their community loyalty.

I know I'm always accused of never having anything significant to contribute. Well I don't think that's true. I make my strongest efforts where they will be seen and responded to in a mostly civil manner. I enjoy a good exchange of thoughts, but I will not waste my time and energy setting a nice table just so some bullies can crap all over it for the amusement of their comrades.

I come here because it gives me exposure to opposing points of view, regardless of how bigoted they might be.

It's also a hope that I might hear a good case for dismissing my own belief that 9/11 was an inside job.

It's also hard to just lurk.

MM
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Sonofmotherlessgoat, I had a length reply and bumped the mouse button I have mapped to "back". I'll try to rewrite later. *mutter*
 
Miragememories said:
That is an excellent question Arkan Wolfshade!

I've had a lifelong hatred of bullys and people who use bullying tactics!

Victimizing people whom you folks disagree with is a favourite sport here. Usually you get away with it without paying a price..a few pats on the back amongst yourselves as Dr. Greening would say.

When Apollo20 made an appearance in the Debate! What debate? thread, it was fascinating to watch the JREF responses shift as it dawned on the group that they might be shooting themselves in the foot. It started with JREFers being somewhat patronizing and arrogant. Apollo20 reacted defensively since he obviously didn't appreciate such a response to his initial presentation. At that point the JREF group response began to kick in with mockery, sock puppet accusations and general ridicule. Later on in the thread, the quality of Apollo's responses began to alert some members of the group to the fact that they might have a celebrity in their midst. Someone they might not want to treat badly as it might bite them back. Amazingly, respect began to appear in responses to Apollo's posts and for a period of time the thread flowed the way one would hope to see a quality JREF Conspiracy Forum thread proceed. Intelligent thoughtful communication amongst key members actively pursuing a better understanding of things they held an honest curiosity about. It all fell apart when some absentee members, possibly Enigma was close to being the first, dropped into the thread without bothering to follow it's history first. Smear comments against Apollo were made, it was a rude awakening and he naturally reacted like he'd been slapped in the face. Things never returned to that brief quality period after that.

It's really unfortunate that this had to happen, because I know there are a lot of quality people here, but they seem to have become trapped by their community loyalty.

I know I'm always accused of never having anything significant to contribute. Well I don't think that's true. I make my strongest efforts where they will be seen and responded to in a mostly civil manner. I enjoy a good exchange of thoughts, but I will not waste my time and energy setting a nice table just so some bullies can crap all over it for the amusement of their comrades.

I come here because it gives me exposure to opposing points of view, regardless of how bigoted they might be.

It's also a hope that I might hear a good case for dismissing my own belief that 9/11 was an inside job.

It's also hard to just lurk.

MM
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I believe that posts, such as the one above, are as pointless and counter-productive as the posts you are claiming to be offensive. Frankly, I find your continued need to bring this up, while being snarky in the process, to be simply offensive.

Stay on point, MM.
 
HyJinX said:
I believe that posts, such as the one above, are as pointless and counter-productive as the posts you are claiming to be offensive. Frankly, I find your continued need to bring this up, while being snarky in the process, to be simply offensive.

Stay on point, MM.
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It is a reasonable response to my question however.
 
Yes it is...my apologies to MM and to you. I just feel that with some of the new rules and with the whole Dr. Greening thing...truthers are attempting to bait some of the regular posters here using "neener, neener, neener" tactics into a flame war...only to accuse said poster of breaking new rules.

If I'm wrong in my assumptions...I apologize...but it seems to be a fair assumption given recent posts by some newer members.
 
Miragememories said:
That is an excellent question Arkan Wolfshade!

I've had a lifelong hatred of bullys and people who use bullying tactics!

Victimizing people whom you folks disagree with is a favourite sport here. Usually you get away with it without paying a price..a few pats on the back amongst yourselves as Dr. Greening would say.
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Victimizing?!? People come here of their own free will.

Miragememories said:
When Apollo20 made an appearance in the Debate! What debate? thread, it was fascinating to watch the JREF responses shift as it dawned on the group that they might be shooting themselves in the foot. It started with JREFers being somewhat patronizing and arrogant. Apollo20 reacted defensively since he obviously didn't appreciate such a response to his initial presentation. At that point the JREF group response began to kick in with mockery, sock puppet accusations and general ridicule. Later on in the thread, the quality of Apollo's responses began to alert some members of the group to the fact that they might have a celebrity in their midst. Someone they might not want to treat badly as it might bite them back. Amazingly, respect began to appear in responses to Apollo's posts and for a period of time the thread flowed the way one would hope to see a quality JREF Conspiracy Forum thread proceed. Intelligent thoughtful communication amongst key members actively pursuing a better understanding of things they held an honest curiosity about. It all fell apart when some absentee members, possibly Enigma was close to being the first, dropped into the thread without bothering to follow it's history first. Smear comments against Apollo were made, it was a rude awakening and he naturally reacted like he'd been slapped in the face. Things never returned to that brief quality period after that.
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Other than your faulty psychoanalysis and simplistic reduction of the discussion to an individual vs. a unary group mentality, that's a pretty good synopsis of the way many discussions centered on emotionally-charged topics go on any public, fairly-moderated forum. The charge that this is unique to the JREF forum is ridiculous. I'm willing to be proven wrong, but I've never encountered a forum that is immune to clashing personalities.

Miragememories said:
It's really unfortunate that this had to happen, because I know there are a lot of quality people here, but they seem to have become trapped by their community loyalty.
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I don't know who you're referring to when you say they're "trapped by their community loyalty" but I've never observed any regular member's reluctance to swim against the tide, so to speak, or to state their true opinions. You're imagining things.

Miragememories said:
I know I'm always accused of never having anything significant to contribute. Well I don't think that's true. I make my strongest efforts where they will be seen and responded to in a mostly civil manner. I enjoy a good exchange of thoughts, but I will not waste my time and energy setting a nice table just so some bullies can crap all over it for the amusement of their comrades.
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That's a wise choice. You can enforce civility yourself here to a degree by: remaining civil and respectful yourself; ignoring those who you feel are bullying or being counter-productive (using the Ignore tool, if necessary); and reporting breaches of the forum rules (which include rules about behavior, and which are being more strictly enforced in this sub-forum.) I'm curious: where are these places that you're making your strongest effort?

Miragememories said:
I come here because it gives me exposure to opposing points of view, regardless of how bigoted they might be.

It's also a hope that I might hear a good case for dismissing my own belief that 9/11 was an inside job.

It's also hard to just lurk.

MM
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All three good reasons.
 
Miragememories said:
That is an excellent question Arkan Wolfshade!

I've had a lifelong hatred of bullys and people who use bullying tactics!

Victimizing people whom you folks disagree with is a favourite sport here. Usually you get away with it without paying a price..a few pats on the back amongst yourselves as Dr. Greening would say.

When Apollo20 made an appearance in the Debate! What debate? thread, it was fascinating to watch the JREF responses shift as it dawned on the group that they might be shooting themselves in the foot. It started with JREFers being somewhat patronizing and arrogant. Apollo20 reacted defensively since he obviously didn't appreciate such a response to his initial presentation. At that point the JREF group response began to kick in with mockery, sock puppet accusations and general ridicule. Later on in the thread, the quality of Apollo's responses began to alert some members of the group to the fact that they might have a celebrity in their midst. Someone they might not want to treat badly as it might bite them back. Amazingly, respect began to appear in responses to Apollo's posts and for a period of time the thread flowed the way one would hope to see a quality JREF Conspiracy Forum thread proceed. Intelligent thoughtful communication amongst key members actively pursuing a better understanding of things they held an honest curiosity about. It all fell apart when some absentee members, possibly Enigma was close to being the first, dropped into the thread without bothering to follow it's history first. Smear comments against Apollo were made, it was a rude awakening and he naturally reacted like he'd been slapped in the face. Things never returned to that brief quality period after that.

It's really unfortunate that this had to happen, because I know there are a lot of quality people here, but they seem to have become trapped by their community loyalty.

I know I'm always accused of never having anything significant to contribute. Well I don't think that's true. I make my strongest efforts where they will be seen and responded to in a mostly civil manner. I enjoy a good exchange of thoughts, but I will not waste my time and energy setting a nice table just so some bullies can crap all over it for the amusement of their comrades.

I come here because it gives me exposure to opposing points of view, regardless of how bigoted they might be.

It's also a hope that I might hear a good case for dismissing my own belief that 9/11 was an inside job.

It's also hard to just lurk.

MM
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If only truther had some facts. It sound more like truthers do not like facts and reason or parental authority and you prefer subterfuge and lies to explain things; nice try on the bully analogy and the poor fact-less truthers being bullied with facts. Do truthers avoid facts in defiance of authority, suspend reason and knowledge and jump on the nearest propaganda machine party line and spread it like bs on a fresh field of gullible truthers?

The bully analogy would work if it were true, but truthers are just against facts, reason, logic and knowledge. Bully stuff is thick irony. A most humorous post, knowing the history of 9/11 truthers.

Greening did not seem very humble about much. I think Greening was just as responsible for the problems as anyone. A expert engineer/researcher/instructor should be able to adjust to his audience and not make fights. He began arguments form the start over small points which may of existed just due to definitions and terms; like an ego battle. As if Greening is the "expert" and all others simple lay people not worthy of the light and knowledge. What do you think?
 
beachnut said:
If only truther had some facts. It sound more like truthers do not like facts and reason or parental authority and you prefer subterfuge and lies to explain things; nice try on the bully analogy and the poor fact-less truthers being bullied with facts. Do truthers avoid facts in defiance of authority, suspend reason and knowledge and jump on the nearest propaganda machine party line and spread it like bs on a fresh field of gullible truthers?

The bully analogy would work if it were true, but truthers are just against facts, reason, logic and knowledge. Bully stuff is thick irony. A most humorous post, knowing the history of 9/11 truthers.

Greening did not seem very humble about much. I think Greening was just as responsible for the problems as anyone. A expert engineer/researcher/instructor should be able to adjust to his audience and not make fights. He began arguments form the start over small points which may of existed just due to definitions and terms; like an ego battle. As if Greening is the "expert" and all others simple lay people not worthy of the light and knowledge. What do you think?
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One can never have too many facts!

What does it cost to be civil?

MM
 
Miragememories said:
One can never have too many facts!

What does it cost to be civil?

MM
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I agree and wonder when the 9/11 truth movement will use facts and stop telling lies. The civil question would be great for Greening, I even use his work to check my own numbers.
 
Miragememories said:
One can never have too many facts!

What does it cost to be civil?

MM
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MM, did you take Apollo/Greening to task for coming here with a chip on his shoulder and accusing all "JREFers" of being "NISTians"? I don't remember that part in the thread. For that matter, do you believe that you are contributing to a civil discussion atmosphere by repeatedly voicing your opinion that we "JREFers" walk in lockstep and worship the NIST report?
 
Miragememories said:
I feel he was 'right on' in those remarks of his that I quoted.

Regarding his beliefs about the WTC, I believe he stated he's an ignostic at this point in time.

He feels you folks, the JREF NISTians, are too tied to NIST's apron strings!

MM
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Dr. Greening does not believe that the jihadist attacks of 9/11/01 were an inside job.
 
Miragememories said:
(ii) Taunt the CTist with “where’s your evidence?”
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It's only a taunt if you don't have any...

Against a "debunker", that question equates to skepticism. Against a truther, that question equates to a taunt? Come on now. Do you really feel your movement is so handicapped that no one should dare be skeptical of its claims?
 
beachnut said:
I agree and wonder when the 9/11 truth movement will use facts and stop telling lies. The civil question would be great for Greening, I even use his work to check my own numbers.
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beachnut you are too casual with the way you accuse people of being liars.

Maybe it means little to you but for my generation being accused of lying is an attack against our honour.

I NEVER knowingly tell a lie unless it's a white lie designed to protect someone from being unneccessarily hurt.

Saying something untrue as a result of ignorance is not lying.

Saying something untrue when you know it's untrue IS lying.

You really should be more careful about your choice of words.

MM
 
Miragememories said:
beachnut said:
I agree and wonder when the 9/11 truth movement will use facts and stop telling lies. The civil question would be great for Greening, I even use his work to check my own numbers.
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beachnut you are too casual with the way you accuse people of being liars.

Maybe it means little to you but for my generation being accused of lying is an attack against our honour.

I NEVER knowingly tell a lie unless it's a white lie designed to protect someone from being unneccessarily hurt.

Saying something untrue as a result of ignorance is not lying.

Saying something untrue when you know it's untrue IS lying.

You really should be more careful about your choice of words.

MM
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So are you suggesting that the truth movement does not tell lies, as beachnut is referring to in his original quote? Are all the mistakes they have made originated from ignorance rather than knowing deception?
 
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