Should prostitution be legal?

should prostitution be legal?

  • yes

    Votes: 166 87.8%
  • no

    Votes: 7 3.7%
  • maybe

    Votes: 10 5.3%
  • on planet X all we do is screw.

    Votes: 6 3.2%

  • Total voters
    189
Is it wrong for me to have to telemarket for a living? Is it wrong for me to have to work at a gas station, or a fast food restaurant, or a reporter?

I have to done all of these things if I wanted to pay my bills. What's "wrong" about that? Why should sex work be any different?

Everyone--trash collectors, doctors, laywers, police officers, astronauts, prostitutes--has to do something for a living; or does food, clothing, shelter come raining from the sky?
You are not getting me at all. The fact is you were not compelled to do any of those things particularly - you needed to do something for a living, but you didn't have to do anything in particular. You didn't have to work at the gas station. You could have worked at McDonalds. Likewise, while a prostitute may be compelled to make a living, she (or he) is not compelled to do it in any particular way. I think you would agree that if some external force compelled you work at a gas station that would be wrong. You may not have a choice in regard to having to make a living, but you do have a choice about what it is you choice to do to make that living.

If a woman were kidnapped and forced into the sex trade it could be argued that has to be a prostitute and you would agree that is wrong. Otherwise a woman is choosing to be in the sex trade. You do get the point of the post you were responding to don't you? It is that Dann's revulsion at the idea of prostitution has little to do with choice issues. A woman may have to make a living. She doesn't have to be a prostitute. You do know that I have argued in favor of the right of people to engage in sexual commerce and in fact that prostitutes perform a useful service and function?

I might say that your arguments about a woman having to be a prostitute are actually fodder for Dann's point of view.
 
THATS BECAUSE ITS ILLEGAL. I dont think anyone wants to deal with gangs or pimps if they dont have to. If we had legal brothels girls would have a legal way to do business and wouldnt have to go to an illegal source for protection.

Nails has it right. If you want another historical analogy, you need look no further than our nation's pointless attempt with alcohol early last century.

Or did Al Capone and the rest of mob gain all that money and power and commit all that violence because alcohol was legal back then?
 
Nails has it right. If you want another historical analogy, you need look no further than our nation's pointless attempt with alcohol early last century.

Or did Al Capone and the rest of mob gain all that money and power and commit all that violence because alcohol was legal back then?

This is fallacious! Mobs are still a problem even to today! I mean, just look at their major product: Drugs! Which... are illegal!

Wait.

I mean, hell, if you legalize alcohol, everyone will drink moonshine and go blind!...

...Wait.

Just... just wait. I can come up with a good point here! I'm sure!
 
If a woman were kidnapped and forced into the sex trade it could be argued that has to be a prostitute and you would agree that is wrong.

I don't recall Dann making a distinction sexual slavery and prostitution. He believes that most (if not all) people who engage in prostitution did so out of pure economic necessity, which he thinks is "bad."

However, I agree that sexual salvery is "bad" but, despite the tenuous connections that anti-prostitution forces try to create, it's not the same thing as most of the sex work that goes on around the world.

I might say that your arguments about a woman having to be a prostitute are actually fodder for Dann's point of view.

Not at all. Dann's argument is that prostitutes are impoverished indiviudals who have no choice at all but to enter into sex work. My argument wasn that everyone needs a job in order to avoid poverty, and sex work is no different than flipping burgers, flying airliners, or running a Fortune 500 company.
 
How about a hybrid prostitution job? One say that has as its job description, normal office duties, plus sex with one's employer on request?

The kind of work we usually associate with prostitution--one time deals between customer and prostitute--should be legal, IMO. I'm far less comfortable with this more complicated situation. Is there a way to outlaw one but legalize the other? Should both be legal?
 
I don't recall Dann making a distinction sexual slavery and prostitution. He believes that most (if not all) people who engage in prostitution did so out of pure economic necessity, which he thinks is "bad."

im betting a lot of women are doing it because they need a lot of money very quickly, that ties into drugs and whatnot. Most people really do not need that much money just to get by without having some sort of addiction. That is bad. its a crappy situation to be in. But making prostitution illegal just makes those womens lives worse by having to deal with the danger of street prostitution, pimps, gangs, and working with no security against johns who try to hurt them. Its an unfortunate thing in life that some women end up in situations where they become prostitutes when they dont want to, but making it illegal does nothing to stop it. Having somewhere for women to turn is the answer.

There are women who like selling sex and their body for a living though, so thats another reason to keep it legal. asia carrera chose stripping and pornography over having a professional job, she had plenty of resources and money and connections in her family to do whatever she wanted, and she chose something most people wouldnt. thats her deal, and i dont care if thats what she wants to do.





Not at all. Dann's argument is that prostitutes are impoverished indiviudals who have no choice at all but to enter into sex work. My argument wasn that everyone needs a job in order to avoid poverty, and sex work is no different than flipping burgers, flying airliners, or running a Fortune 500 company.

Sex work is different than flipping burgers. If someone stole a hamburger at your work its not going to **** with you as much as being raped would. both are a theft of what the person is selling, but the latter personally harms the worker to an extreme extent. Doing our best to prevent this kind of abuse is all that can be done, because its been demonstrated that making something illegal does little to stop it, by making things legal and having security it can be helped. There are risky jobs besides prostitution that people still decide to do for whatever personal reason, thats their choice and I accept that. I say lets make the world safer for everyone.
 
But I think that I should probably leave you guys to design the best approach to creating the ideal brothel, free of SDTs and drugs and full of (even more imaginary) women who live up to your immature fantasies of prostitution.

Given that in this thead you've called me and The Great Hairy One an "idiot," I'm not sure you're in a position to be lecturing us on what is and what isn't "immature."
 
How about a hybrid prostitution job? One say that has as its job description, normal office duties, plus sex with one's employer on request?

The kind of work we usually associate with prostitution--one time deals between customer and prostitute--should be legal, IMO. I'm far less comfortable with this more complicated situation. Is there a way to outlaw one but legalize the other? Should both be legal?

Two words:

Sexual Harrasment.
 
Everyone needs to talk a deep breath.

Does anyone know a prostitute that would be willing to tells what they think of the industry? Then we won't have everyone assuming that everyone else is wrong. Perhaps someone could pay for an hour of their time;)

Would anyone be brave* enough to say they have visited a prostitute and what they got from the experience?

(*Not calling anyone out. I know how public this place is)

One of my ex's friends is a prostitute. She was very open about it with people she knew, and I talked about it with her a few times.
She started working at an "escort agency" to pay her way through university. When she graduated she realsied that she could make much more continuing to work as a prostitute than by using her degree (psychology), and so she bought herself a flat, set herself up as an "aromatherapist* masseur" and put adverts in the local papers etc.

This is perfectly legal here as she doesn’t directly advertise sex services, and she works for herself in a flat on her own, and she pays taxes on her income.

After ten years working as a prostitute she has decided to quit, and last i heard she has enrolled in some training coerce for professional counselling.

She says she was not forced into working as a prostitute, she has always managed to keep herself safe, and has often turned down potential clients who she did not feel comfortable with.

This story may be far from typical, but as she is the only prostitute I have spoken to (that i know of) it’s the best evidence I have to go on.
Of course for you guys its just an anecdote from some random guy on the internet.

I have never "visited" a prostitute.



*the difference between visiting this woman and a "real" aromatherapist, is that her clients know they’re going to get screwed. ;)
 
Two words:

Sexual Harrasment.

Well, obviously. But that doesn't resolve the dilemma.

How do you legalize prostitution without legalizing tolerance of sexual harassment as part of a job description?
 
Dann, I have to admit to being a little bit shocked at your attitude. I can't figure whether you're close to a prostitute who was severely damaged by the game, whether you're just a prude, or what the problem actually is, because you're just not making sense. You appear to have suspended what I'd seen as a great, critical and objective brain, to take up an extreme feminist position on this subject.

You pay the prostitute to overcome her revulsion. I don’t think the sadist (usually) pays the masochist.
This is tending me towards thinking that you're just a little lacking in factual detail on the subject.

I suggest that visits to prostitutes for the sake of fulfilling S&M/B&D fantasies are about 50:50. For every bloke who wants to get his bottom spanked, there's another john who wants to spank a schoolgirl.

And it's not paying to overcome a revulsion - women who find sex, male sex organs or anything to do with sex revolting don't become prostitutes, or if they do, they don't do it for long.

Is it good work to have sex with people that revolt you, but with an employer who earns money from your ‘services’ and in return sees to it that you don’t use drugs to overcome your revulsion and check up on you so you don’t pass on STDs to the johns?!

Revulsion, revulsion, everywhere. I'm beginning to wonder why?

Yes, paying somebody to overcome her unwillingness to have sex with you is what makes it disgusting.
Again, you're out with the straw. Who says prostitues are "unwilling"? (Improvement on "revolted", though) They're willing enough, they just take money beforehand.

But being in a situation where you would even consider having sex with somebody even though you don't feel like it, is the real problem.You assume a lot.
The only assumption I see is you assuming the girls are revolted by, or unwilling to do the sex bit.

Yes, having to disrobe and masturbate for somebody that you wouldn't otherwise want to disrobe and masturbate for is revolting.
Purely personal opinion. How can you even make that statement, wihtout adding the rider, "In my opinion"? Or did you suddenly become the voice of all human morality.

What if the prostitute is an exhibitionist? They do exist, you know.

So you actually think that your businessmen would enjoy hearing the truth? 'You are an ugly bastard, I hate what I'm doing with you so much that I have to take drugs, and when I yell that I'm coming, I'm only play-acting to boost your ego and make you come.
Crikey, I thought that what psychologists were for! I think they charge a bit less than hookers, so I doubt the businessman would be too happy if his hooker said it.

That's what you pay me for!' Or isn't that the "Simple sexual gratification" you are thinking of?
And what about the prostitutes who are turned on by some of their customers. I can relate numerous cases of hookers telling me about some bloke who just clicked and they had several actual orgasms during sex with a paying client. This isn't fantasy - it may not happen often, but it does happen.

You seem to be constantly missing the point that (at least where legal prostitutes are considered) prostitutes will decline sex acts they aren't comfortable with.

No, I probably wouldn't. Leave your masturbation fantasies behind and get back to reality, Atheist!

Unfortunately, when you've sat around drinking Earl Grey tea with hookers while they knit cardigans as they wait for business, I'm pretty inured to it myself.

The sensible prostitute versus the drunken slapper! What a beautiful argument!

But does it happen?

Dann, the more I read and re-read your posts, the more I'm convinced that you have a personal agenda here. There's nothing wrong with that, but I think you're letting fallacy get in the way of facts, because like alcohol consumption, prostitution is not going away and seeking continuation of illegality is turning a blind eye to the plight of those women who have been coerced into the game. In a legal environment, those women have far greater protection that in an illegal one.
 
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Well, obviously. But that doesn't resolve the dilemma.

How do you legalize prostitution without legalizing tolerance of sexual harassment as part of a job description?

If you took a job that included "sex with boss upon request" in the job duties, how would that constitute sexual harrassment? If you didn't want to have sex with your boss, you wouldn't take the job, right? And by agreeing to take the job, you are agreeing to have sex with your boss. You would have to agree to the terms before hand. Well, unless your boss gave you a practice run to see if you would work out!
 
Well, obviously. But that doesn't resolve the dilemma.

How do you legalize prostitution without legalizing tolerance of sexual harassment as part of a job description?

No dilemma involved.

As long as the fact that prostitution for the boss is a function of the job and this is plain to all parties before a hiring decision is made, there is no issue.

It would only come under sexual harrassment provisions if the boss suddenly tells his secretary that now she's expected to drop her panties upon request.

We had an interesting case here where a widowed farmer wanted to hire a nanny/hooker - look after the kids during the day, look after dad at night. He had a HUGE response! All quite legal, nobody cried.

Not much coercion involved there.
 
Well, obviously. But that doesn't resolve the dilemma.

How do you legalize prostitution without legalizing tolerance of sexual harassment as part of a job description?

(Slippery slope fallacy)

Easy. Just as the legal sex worker would have a right not to be compelled to give "freebies" to the boss, the job of a secretary will not be able suddenly require sex simply because prostitution has become a legal profession. I see no slippery slope. It would appear there are adequate protections against sexual harassment in the Netherlands.
 
If you took a job that included "sex with boss upon request" in the job duties, how would that constitute sexual harrassment? If you didn't want to have sex with your boss, you wouldn't take the job, right? And by agreeing to take the job, you are agreeing to have sex with your boss. You would have to agree to the terms before hand. Well, unless your boss gave you a practice run to see if you would work out!


Grrr, beat me to it, ya bitch!

Hey, you could have a lot of fun with a trial period! I suppose you'd have to have a test-drive at the interview stage - not much point if there's an incompatibility!

I wonder if the local brothels need a good recruiter....
 
(Slippery slope fallacy)

Easy. Just as the legal sex worker would have a right not to be compelled to give "freebies" to the boss, the job of a secretary will not be able suddenly require sex simply because prostitution has become a legal profession. I see no slippery slope. It would appear there are adequate protections against sexual harassment in the Netherlands.

How do they do it? That's what I want to know. If prostitution is legal, why can't any job be made partly prostitution? With the consent of anyone willing to take the position, of course.
 
No dilemma involved.

As long as the fact that prostitution for the boss is a function of the job and this is plain to all parties before a hiring decision is made, there is no issue.

It would only come under sexual harrassment provisions if the boss suddenly tells his secretary that now she's expected to drop her panties upon request.

We had an interesting case here where a widowed farmer wanted to hire a nanny/hooker - look after the kids during the day, look after dad at night. He had a HUGE response! All quite legal, nobody cried.

Not much coercion involved there.

I understand that it can be consistent if you leave it at that. I'm looking to clarify my own position. I'm in favor of legalizing "classic" prostitution. I am NOT in favor of allowing prostitution duties to become a part of other industries. I'm looking for a way to support one without the other.
 
I understand that it can be consistent if you leave it at that. I'm looking to clarify my own position. I'm in favor of legalizing "classic" prostitution. I am NOT in favor of allowing prostitution duties to become a part of other industries. I'm looking for a way to support one without the other.

I don't think you can, but I can tell you that any boss who looked to do that sort of thing would have to face the business consequences of it. He'd be unlikely to have much respect from other staff, so it's likely to be just the two of them. If he spends all day with his paid mistress, do you think he might get distracted a lot of the time?

I think simple economics will ensure that it doesn't happen.

It would be a far more interesting proposition in a job-scarce market though. How many women might be tempted to suggest to the guy hiring that she will take 'em off if she gets the job if there are no other jobs to be had?

Alas, to recruiters, this never happens.
 
I understand that it can be consistent if you leave it at that. I'm looking to clarify my own position. I'm in favor of legalizing "classic" prostitution. I am NOT in favor of allowing prostitution duties to become a part of other industries. I'm looking for a way to support one without the other.


Well, there are plenty of bosses having sex with their subordinates. Just because it's not part of the job description doesn't mean it doesn't happen. I agree with TA in that I don't think a boss would get very far if he advertised for a secretary who would service him as well. Even if prostitution was legal, society would see to it that no respectable businessman could add sex to the job description.
 
Grrr, beat me to it, ya bitch!

Hey, you could have a lot of fun with a trial period! I suppose you'd have to have a test-drive at the interview stage - not much point if there's an incompatibility!

I wonder if the local brothels need a good recruiter....


Hee hee!

Yes, I could imagine a potential employer interviewing for a position for years!
 

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