Simple Challenge For Bigfoot Supporters

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William Parcher wrote:
Ironically, the best reproductions of the PGF (including animated gifs and stills) are the things that reveal the costume best. But these things can also be seen just by watching as the film runs through.


Even MORE ironically....there's NO picture of a suit from the 1960's that comes anywhere close to Patty's "suit"....as far as the FINE texture of the hair...the accurate body contour (especially on the back of the legs)...the muscle movement...the body proportions...the sharply sloping head...and overall realism.
Every other "guy-in-a-suit" on film or video is OBVIOUSLY a guy-in-a-suit.....at first glance.

Not so with the Patterson film.
 
belz wrote:
Bigfootery's just a big load of maybe's.
Just press the little red button, and Skeptotron the Robot says....

"You don't have proof of Bigfoot".....

press it again and it says.....

"Where's the body?"

press it again and it says.....

"Bigfootery is all "maybe's""


Skeptics are just SO smart!! You got to hand it to them....
It's like they've ALL figured out that there isn't any proof of Bigfoot's existence! :rolleyes:

But if belz is as INTELLIGENT as he appears to be.....he'd be able to answer a few simple questions......such as...

Is there a real difference in the meaning of these two statements....

A) The evidence for Bigfoot is "worthless"

and....

B) The evidence for Bigfoot does not have "ANY degree of likeliness, however small..."

If there is a difference...concerning the WEIGHT being given to the evidence, could you explain what it is?

And this...
Greg's statement says, basically...
"I'm not aware of any Bigfoot evidence which rises to the level of "WEAK"."

Your "translation" of it.....

"I'm not aware of any Bigfoot evidence which is CONVINCING, or "STRONG"."

There is a significant difference between the meanings of those two statements.
Would you agree with that, belz?
 
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belz wrote:
SweatyYeti wrote:
Your "translation" of it.....

"I'm not aware of any Bigfoot evidence which is CONVINCING, or "STRONG"."
You, sir, are a liar, plain and simple. I never said anything of the sort.

NO...I'm not a liar.

And...YES you did say that, belz....

Here it is...
he (Greg) said "no evidence has ever convinced me, so far."

Do you have any CLUE as to what you are saying here, belz???

WHY would you deny making that statement, anyway?
Is it because it is...in fact...NOT an accurate translation of Greg's statement?
 
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Just what is your point about Marmots? That the researchers should be finding sasquatches?
Yes, at least reliable evidence.
I find all "should be" arguments tiresome.
If you think it's tiresome for people to expect some reliable evidence of an 8ft primate living all across the continent than I don't know there's anything that can be said to reason with you. I realize your not physically fatigued. You made a dramatic statement so I treated it as such.
You state flatly that bigfoots have been shot yet offer nothing to support the assertion.
I've said flatly there are reports of them being shot.
No:
Hunters have shot them.
I've scanned pictures, done captures and posted URLs 'til I'm blue in the face (not literally). If sceptics can't see the variation there's nothing I can do about it.
Would a link be to much to ask? I don't think there are any casts or tracks which show toe movement consistent with a 'living foot'. I thought it was one of those simple things where someone would promptly show otherwise considering it's proponents next fallback when 'dermal' claims are shown otherwise. I'm beginning to be quite sure it is an amorphous bigfootery myth.
There is a photo of a beach trackway (Oregon, I think), and it may have been in that book. There are no casts that I know of.

Here's a report, anyway:

http://www.oregonbigfoot.com/report_detail.php?id=00141
No casts, missing photo. Got it. I guess it would be better to not flatly state 'they're on the beaches' if all you have is testimony because, you know, by that measure we can also say 'witches fly in the sky on brooms'. Oh, wait... there's video.
Just what is it you're trying to get me to say?
I'm not trying to make you say anything. I would try to encourage being a little more forthright about the nature of the evidence. You say you're a skeptic but when it comes to wildman claims I just don't see it.
No, I think I missed it. Now we need one on confirmed sightings of cougars in North Carolina.

Just how were they confirmed?
:rolleyes: By ruling out bigfoots.

Here's the Iowa Department of Natural Resources reports on bobcat, mountain lion, and black bear status in the state:

http://www.iowadnr.com/wildlife/pdfs/2001_cats_bear.pdf
 
A Defense of Myself(again)

Special Agent Tim Powers of the Tampa FBI Office called me in Sept. of 2006
to respond to e-mails, letters, and phone calls about a group of Lebonese and Jordanian student types living in my apartment complex(right above and behind me sharing a common wall)
He took my information, verified by former NYPD status, and talked with me for almost an hour.

I use "caps" NOT to show ANGER, but because I am new to forums and such and wish to show emphasis or importance of the capped statements.

Some "harrowing" experiences:
While in NYPD, but not on duty, my family's business office's alarm went off.
I lived closest to the building, and responded to my dad asking me to drive down to check on the building.
I rushed in, not really thinking of the danger of maybe meeting up with intruders, and left the outer door and inner door, open.
While dialling up the alarm company, I was too involved with speaking to the person on the other end, to notice 2 cops had entered, guns drawn. One of them got right up to my head, and clicked the hammer. I panicked, and told them I worked there, was a family member, and the lady on the phone could identify me OR they could talk to her while I got out my driver's license, and business card etc.
They did that for me---reaching into my pockets etc.
When they took out my shield wallet, and saw my ID card, they both let out sighs of relief! They put their guns away, and asked if I had made a check of the building. I said no, and that I was unarmed(having been asleep at home
when the call came in to shut off the alarm)

We did a thorough run through, and the building was clear--a cat had tripped the motion sensors in the equipment and supplies yard.

Another harrowing event:
I was working an "op" infiltrating a motorcycle gang located temporarily
in the Hunts Point section of the Bronx. The leader handed me a gun and challenged me to prove I wasn't a cop(he was suspicious since I did not engage in typical bullying etc.)
He ordered me to shoot this "weasel/snitch". I had to think really fast.
I swung the gun at the leader's head, and said quite plainly:
"No, I'd rather blow your head off, then I'll be leader"
He was a typical bully--when confronted with someone who fought back at him, he crumbled--he begged for his life!
An hour later, while they were all in a diner, I snuck off(said I had to use toilet) and called for an "extraction"--when we set up a capture raid to arrest
gangs or masses of offenders.
I was treated the same way as the gang, so as not to blow my cover, but once at the nearby precinct, was taken "for special interrogation"--removed from the communal cell-- and my assignment in that "op" ended, with the gang thinking I was getting it really handed to me by the cops!

I lead(in the past) an exciting life. I was reckless, daredevilish, and foolish most of the time. How I managed to survive, I sometimes wonder, LOL

As for the Satanic/Cult unit, actually, we just confered with other law enforcement agencies over luncheons, etc.
We were only 3 experts in this field, out of around a hundred or so around the continental US
We shared information basically.

The two years I did a private psycho-therapy practice(in 1995 New York had no licensing requirements for psycho-therapy and or counseling)
I handled cops, fire fighters, war veterans, widowers/widows, abused kids,
neurosies, generalized anxiety disorder, etc.


As to the General Putnam BigFoot report, Putnam County is a small insular place. The same bureaucrats and paper pushers/red tape artists have been in civil service for decades. Miss Simpson, the elderly curator, had been in that job since she was 30yrs old, and was in her late sixties/early seventies
when I encountered her.
Records in that office(a converted old victorian house) were poorly stored and
hopelessly misarranged/ deteriorated in condition.
She was not going to let me touch anything in no uncertain terms!

NOT BEING A HISTORIAN MYSELF, I did not care enough perhaps, to
press her for better access, etc. She treated me as a "pillager" and a
"araviste"--someone who uses history without respect for it.

I ONLY PUT THIS OUT HERE TO SEE IF I AM WORTHY TO BE ALLOWED
MEMBERSHIP IN THIS FORUM!
 
But if belz is as INTELLIGENT as he appears to be.....he'd be able to answer a few simple questions......such as...

I did answer them, here. Why do you keep ignoring that post, where you ADMIT to beign wrong on this issue ?

NO...I'm not a liar.

Oh, yes you are. You know very well that you were wrong on that issue. You even admitted it. Now you're backtracking to save face.

he (Greg) said "no evidence has ever convinced me, so far."

Do you have any CLUE as to what you are saying here, belz???

Yes. And you bolded the wrong part of the sentence. I've done that for you, now.
 
I use "caps" NOT to show ANGER, but because I am new to forums and such and wish to show emphasis or importance of the capped statements.

Caps are considered to be SHOUTING ! Not necessarily anger..

There are all kinds of handy tools at the top of the reply box ,,
Try using bold or color for emphasis ..

And by all means, use caps if you want to shout . But be prepared for people to ignore your content, and instead focus on your perceived rude behavior..


I ONLY PUT THIS OUT HERE TO SEE IF I AM WORTHY TO BE ALLOWED
MEMBERSHIP IN THIS FORUM!
Worthy ?
Didn't you start the thread about ' cult ' behavior ?

Words like ' worthy ', in the context of being accepted at a forum, reeks of a cult mentality .. You are in the wrong place for that .
 
Yes, at least reliable evidence.If you think it's tiresome for people to expect some reliable evidence of an 8ft primate living all across the continent than I don't know there's anything that can be said to reason with you. I realize your not physically fatigued. You made a dramatic statement so I treated it as such....snip...
Please allow me to comment this.

Most of the bigfoot defenders who post here seem to show an an unfortunate trend when it comes to debating the "pro-" evidence and supporting reasonings. The standard -and good- practice here is to examine what was presented, searching for details and inconsistencies.

Unfortunately issues within the the evidence and reasonings used to back the claim (including those only marginally linked to the main subject) are very often found, since the majority of arguments and evidence presented so far are faulty. When someone exposes these problems, asking for further clarifications or rectifications on the evidence/reasoning/claim, the reaction almos always is negative. The standard responses include evasions, obfuscations, semantics, rethorics, more claims, ad homs, appeals to authority, flames, appeals to pity, drama, anedoctes, etc. The above will not solve the problems within the evidence/reasoning/claim. Adding to an ignore list those who checked in detail what was presented and constested it will not magically make the problems disappear. Reductio ad absurdum, these tactics are nothing but "la-la-la-la-la I can't hear you"...

So, tired of seeing the issues in the reasonings/evidence being presented over and over again? Address them or just admit they have flaws you can't fix, but you still belive in your claim. Otherwise you will read the same counterarguments, again and again and agaim. And yes, we also get tired of reading countless times the same arguments and to expose the very same flaws (actually sometimes we find previously unoticed flaws).
For example, some posts ago a poster made claims that were very wrong. Some months ago I would challenge it. Nowdays, I just let them go. And belive me, one of them (only marginally related to the main discussion) demonstrated an immense ignorance on the subject.

Here is not the place where you make a claim and people just belive in what you said or accept it after a surficial evaluation or after getting that cozy "feels good sensation". If you don't want or don't like to be questioned, JREF is not the place for you.

What's the point of posting here if you ignore the questioning? Ignoring the issues with your evidence/reasoning/claims will not make them disappear. Or its a futile hope that the casual reader will think what you wrote is correct and uncontestable? If this is the last case, then its a dishonest tactic.

NOTE- this post is not directed to an specific poster but to all the people who are behaving in such manner.
 
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I ONLY PUT THIS OUT HERE TO SEE IF I AM WORTHY TO BE ALLOWED
MEMBERSHIP IN THIS FORUM!
Hi again, Tony. There's not really much I can offer in the way of advice/constructive criticism that hasn't already been said more than once but I'll give it a try as this is my first forum too.

1. Don't worry about whether you're worthy or not. You read the rules, you register, bada-bing you're a member. Join the discussions, share your opinions, enjoy yourself.

2. Trust me, nobody cares if you've been the guy in the booth of the parkade for the past 25 years. If you make sound arguments, heed the experiences of others, and drop the superiority bit you'll do just fine.

3. If you really want to continue with the all caps abuse (is that something you taught students?), might I suggest combining it with heavy ellipsis use? It gives it that certain je-ne-se-quois.

4. Yes, everybody on this forum is a complete tit... except for me. Please follow everything I say and give me at least 5 gushing praises a day and you will be the second most adored member of this board.:D
 
They see what they want to see.

This suggests that people already have an opinion about Bigfoot before they view the PGF. That may be true in some cases, but it would seem to also apply to BF believers.

One poster took the word of his seven- year-old. Unfortunately many scientists reacted the same way (as the seven-year-old).

I don't know what to say about that. A seven year old might notice and point out the hernia, while an adult misses it. Are you saying that you feel that anyone who thinks the PGF is a hoax is acting like a child?

Hip waders? Diaper butts? It's all been refuted.

Of course PGF believers would think that. Refuted how? Showing a photo of a gorilla with a line across its thigh somehow refutes the proposition that Patty is showing a costume flaw? If I then present a photo of a movie gorilla costume with a material fold on the leg - does it refute the refutation?

PGF believers are not going to satisfy critics by only showing photos of real animals with features similar to Patty. That won't be regarded as debunking of the skeptical claim (guy in a costume).

He (Krantz) was led to opinions by the evidence. Have you bothered to read his book yet?

Bother is the key word.

(Skeptics want original copies of the PGF) So they can tear it to shreds? Literally? Beckjord's is for sale. He only wants a million bucks for it.

When anyone has the best available physical evidence they are in the best position to analyze it.

(Hernia is) Fold in the cloth, I supppose.

That's correct.

Dfoot's appealed to scoftics. What else is new?

He was working on making a costume that was supposed to replicate Patty.

If you ignore shoulder width, IM index, slope of the forehead and the legs, among other things.

Those are debatable features. I understand that a proper IM index cannot be easily derived from a film of a hairy subject. NASI (Paul Glickman) did it anyway. He also came up with a fantastic estimated weight for Patty. She is supposed to weight almost 2000 pounds. That is a female. Like any other ape, we should expect the males to weigh more than females. So, Patty's hypothetical mate would likely be about 2,300 pounds or more. That's about triple the weight of a typical interior grizzly bear. It's even heavier than Kodiak grizzlies. Now try to visually imagine a hypothetical grizzly that weighs even 2,000 pounds standing upright on its feet. It's an animal of incredible mass with a very bulky abdomen. Patty doesn't even have a pot belly for crissakes! As big as they are, the Patty feet don't even seem big enough to haul that weight around bipedally.

The NASI analysis is absurd. Yet PGF believers will use it as a reference and a supposed debunker of the skeptical PGF debunking. :boggled:

He (Dfoot) was seen here last, preaching to the choir. Maybe he got tired of all the high fives.

It's possible he did sorta get tired of the situation. PGF skeptics often learn that the believers are resistant to rationality and reason. I think many start out thinking they can talk some sense into believers. I hardly said a word to him about his suit-in-progress. Mostly I think he was over-engineering it by working too hard to replicate muscle definition that isn't even there on Patty. He was on the road to making a better Bigfoot costume than Patterson did. But his access to Hollywood costume-makers and the related historical archives was an asset. I thought Dfoot was cool in many ways and I do miss him.
 
If he can prove that skeptics are disingenuous in their arguments, then bigfoot has to be real.
 
The sweaty one, seems to have problems with concepts like ' so far ' and ' ... I am not aware . " ...


So much better to quibble over semantics, that actually present a case for your contentions...

I honestly can't believe that he doesn't understand this. The sentence was properly constructed. The only possibility left is dishonesty on his part.
 
You'd think with bigfoot being spotted all over North America, we'd at least be discussing recent footprints, casts, dermals, etc. etc.

RayG

It's simple really.

There are no credible reports being made, because they cannot withstand the scrutiny they were not subjected to, when only the handful of Bigfoot ' experts were the one's inspecting the evidence..


Consider the Skookum cast .. It was a sacred shroud for five years, until a real scientist decided to shine some light on it.. Same thing for dermals ..
 
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