10 story hole in WTC 7

[Miragememories]

They are clearly stating that there would be more fuel contamination of this sand/ soil area. I see nothing showing otherwise. You could always contact the person NIST used if you think they are being dishonest. Otherwise, again, it's clear this is just another hollow "I don't believe them/NIST is dishonest" post. Also from my understanding it wasn't just clay. NIST seems to be stating the fuel never reached the organic marine silt/clay below.


From my understanding clay can be contaminated and it will certainlly help the contamination from going lower.
http://taylorandfrancis.metapress.com/content/2xbe7xv6ebc1j362/

NIST loves drowning readers in documentation! TEN THOUSAND PAGES OF DOCUMENTATION yet given the opportunity to support their contention with a few calculations...they waffle with a summation of some.

This is important information and they know it! Without the fuel argument, it becomes extremely difficult to mount any kind of case for a natural collapse of WTC7! If investigators found evidence of fuel in the sand, then they could have performed some rudimentary measurements and created some extrapolative estimates of how much fuel the sand absorbed. Subtract that from the fuel tanks capacity and we know what amount fuel was unaccounted for and thus how much fuel might have fed this towering inferno that everyone in JREF chooses to believe caused WTC7 to slam to the ground.

MM

 

[beachnut]

NIST loves drowning readers in documentation! TEN THOUSAND PAGES OF DOCUMENTATION yet given the opportunity to support their contention with a few calculations...they waffle with a summation of some.

This is important information and they know it! Without the fuel argument, it becomes extremely difficult to mount any kind of case for a natural collapse of WTC7! If investigators found evidence of fuel in the sand, then they could have performed some rudimentary measurements and created some extrapolative estimates of how much fuel the sand absorbed. Subtract that from the fuel tanks capacity and we know what amount fuel was unaccounted for and thus how much fuel might have fed this towering inferno that everyone in JREF chooses to believe caused WTC7 to slam to the ground.

MM

So which points in the 10,000 plus pages do you have a problem with? Do you have specific points you disagree with?

Wrong, on the fuel part, just fire weakens steel, and like other buildings totaled by fire, WTC7 was added, as was WTC5, WTC6, Windsor building, One Meridian Plaza, and the list goes on, and on... Fire makes building fail. Fire destorys buildings.

Show me the Windsor building today, show me WTC5, WTC6, One meridian Plaza in Philly. Where did they go and why? (fire is in there)

 

[Kent1]

NIST loves drowning readers in documentation! TEN THOUSAND PAGES OF DOCUMENTATION yet given the opportunity to support their contention with a few calculations...they waffle with a summation of some.

This is important information and they know it! Without the fuel argument, it becomes extremely difficult to mount any kind of case for a natural collapse of WTC7! If investigators found evidence of fuel in the sand, then they could have performed some rudimentary measurements and created some extrapolative estimates of how much fuel the sand absorbed. Subtract that from the fuel tanks capacity and we know what amount fuel was unaccounted for and thus how much fuel might have fed this towering inferno that everyone in JREF chooses to believe caused WTC7 to slam to the ground.

MM

Don't worry the WTC7 report isn't done yet. The next update should be out within the next few months so you'll have even more pages of documentation to make accusatory and hollow statements about. LOL!

 

[stateofgrace]

NIST loves drowning readers in documentation! TEN THOUSAND PAGES OF DOCUMENTATION yet given the opportunity to support their contention with a few calculations...they waffle with a summation of some.

This is important information and they know it! Without the fuel argument, it becomes extremely difficult to mount any kind of case for a natural collapse of WTC7! If investigators found evidence of fuel in the sand, then they could have performed some rudimentary measurements and created some extrapolative estimates of how much fuel the sand absorbed. Subtract that from the fuel tanks capacity and we know what amount fuel was unaccounted for and thus how much fuel might have fed this towering inferno that everyone in JREF chooses to believe caused WTC7 to slam to the ground.

MM

Who exactly is they ?

Are you accussing NIST of trying to cover up mass murder of 3000 people?

 

[Christopher7]

From the same NIST reference;
[included in answer]

Definitive enough to make the definitive nature of Chris' statement wrong.

The diesel tanks, pumps and risers were in the west end of WTC 7 so it doesn't matter how much diesel fuel was burned.

There was NO fire in the north east generator room.

That leaves the fuel supply pipe.

FEMA pg 28
"Fuel oil was distributed through the 5th floor in a double-wall iron pipe.
A portion of the piping was in close proximity to Truss 1.
However, there is no physical photographic or other evidence to substantiate or refute the discharge of fuel oil from the piping system.

The following is, therefore, a hypothesis based on potential rather than demonstrated fact.
Assume that the distribution piping system was severed and discharged up to 75 gpm onto the 5th floor in the vicinity of Truss 1."
[bolding mine]

The whole thing about fuel oil [diesel] causing Truss 1 to fail is an ASSUMPTION based on nothing!

There is NO evidence diesel fires played any part in the initiating event* that led to the collapse of WTC 7.

*NIST Apx. L pg 30 - 33

 

[Arus808]

AGAIN FOR THE umpteenth TIME CHRISTOPHER 7
you are arguing semantics from a report that isn't even completed. between that preliminary report and the final one, MANY aspects of what they believed when they started their investigation could change

YOU are aruging about what is being said in a TEMPORARY report

get that through your tHICK FREAKING Skull.

 

[Christopher7]

AGAIN FOR THE umpteenth TIME CHRISTOPHER 7
you are arguing semantics from a report that isn't even completed. between that preliminary report and the final one, MANY aspects of what they believed when they started their investigation could change

YOU are aruging about what is being said in a TEMPORARY report

get that through your tHICK FREAKING Skull.

Actually, i'm quoting the FEMA report. The NIST progress report doesn't mention diesel fires.

5th Floor Scenarios:[Page 28] is the basis for the dieisel fires contributing to the initiating l event rumor.

There is NO evidence that this happened.

OT'ers should refrain from claiming that diesel fires contributed to the initiating event*, that led to thecollapse of WTC 7, until the final report comes out and perhaps shows evidence that this happened.

*NIST Apx. L pg 30 - 33

 

[Kent1]

Again he's still using FEMA outdated statements. However NIST states that if the Salomon brothers supply or return pipes were fractured it would continue pumping fuel until the storage tanks were empty. The tanks and piping system were empty and product sludge was not observed in either underground storage tank or piping system. This Salomon brothers pumping system was different from others and near the initiating event.
Also see page 178
http://wtc.nist.gov/media/testimony/TestimonySept8_06.pdf

Cheers.

 

[Christopher7]

Kent1;

Cheers.


C7
Page 3 [on page counter]
"One possibility being considered in the NIST working hypothesis....impact......may have resulted in fractures in the fuel piping system..........at the valve box would release fuel under pressure that, if ignited,......."

There is no evidence for any of this, it's just a possibility.

Pg 180 [11 on the pg counter]
"valve box......near generator #1"

Pg 181
"very near column #79"

i.e. in the generator room.

 

[cloudshipsrule]

OT'ers should refrain from claiming that diesel fires contributed to the initiating event*, that led to the collapse of WTC 7, until the final report comes out and perhaps shows evidence that this happened.

Perhaps it was soley the damage caused by tons of raining debree from the collapse of two of the tallest buildings on the planet that initiated collapse. Does it really matter? CERTAINLY, the fire that lasted for HOURS that day reduced the load bearing limits of some support members. That's what fire does. That's what makes it fun to play with.

Isn't it all speculation based on photographs, video and debree fields? No one was actually in the building when it fell, so no one can say for certain what the collapse mechanism was. NIST is just a group of qualified experts coming up with an educated theory after-the-fact. They have more information than you have, and my guess is, they can make better assumptions than you can. That's just a guess, mind you, but I'm pretty certain I'm right.

I always find it humorous reading these armchair arguments and analyses from individuals gathering data from conspiracy websites and youtube.

 

[Kent1]

Kent1;


There is no evidence for any of this, it's just a possibility.

i.e. in the generator room.

There is evidence. As I have already explained. The Salomon brothers piping system and tanks were empty. A fracture of the pipe at the valve box would release fuel under pressure very close to column 79. Evidence suggests that this fuel did not leak into the underground soil. Also see previous posts.
Cheers.

 

[Miragememories]

So which points in the 10,000 plus pages do you have a problem with? Do you have specific points you disagree with?

Wrong, on the fuel part, just fire weakens steel, and like other buildings totaled by fire, WTC7 was added, as was WTC5, WTC6, Windsor building, One Meridian Plaza, and the list goes on, and on... Fire makes building fail. Fire destorys buildings.

Show me the Windsor building today, show me WTC5, WTC6, One meridian Plaza in Philly. Where did they go and why? (fire is in there)

You must be smoking the good stuff beachnut.

Totaled by fire does not equate to a 'controlled demolition' type collapse!

WTC7 is it! If you can't white wash it your house of cards collapses.

I'm sorry but it's not easy to get modern highrise buildings to go 'fwump'.

You can believe in the tooth fairy if you want but it won't change reality.

MM

 

[GlennB]

You must be smoking the good stuff beachnut.

Totaled by fire does not equate to a 'controlled demolition' type collapse!

WTC7 is it! If you can't white wash it your house of cards collapses.

I'm sorry but it's not easy to get modern highrise buildings to go 'fwump'.

You can believe in the tooth fairy if you want but it won't change reality.

MM

Although, the E Penthouse (and the structure below it) was going "fwump" several seconds before the global collapse.
Have you ever wondered, mm, what was happening inside the building prior to its collapse and in the six+ seconds after it fell into the building?

Picture this - it was a very substantial structure :

 

[Christopher7]

There is evidence. As I have already explained. The Salomon brothers piping system and tanks were empty. A fracture of the pipe at the valve box would release fuel under pressure very close to column 79. Evidence suggests that this fuel did not leak into the underground soil. Also see previous posts.
Cheers.

Key words "would release" ....NO evidence that this actually happened.

Did it ever occur to you that a pipe broke in the south west part of WTC 7, where the debris hit ?

 

[Christopher7]

Although, the E Penthouse (and the structure below it) was going "fwump" several seconds before the global collapse.
Have you ever wondered, mm, what was happening inside the building prior to its collapse and in the six+ seconds after it fell into the building?

Picture this - it was a very substantial structure :

The major damage was to the west half of the south face.

 

[Miragememories]

[quote
=GlennB;2414438]Although, the E Penthouse (and the structure below it) was going "fwump" several seconds before the global collapse.
Have you ever wondered, mm, what was happening inside the building prior to its collapse and in the six+ seconds after it fell into the building?

Picture this - it was a very substantial structure :

http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l131/Ignatz_CT/wtc1peelingcorecropped.jpg

http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l131/Ignatz_CT/wtc7-penthouse-kink.gif[/quote]

GlennB don't muddy the waters with pics of WTC1.

Of course I speculate about what happened inside WTC7 when the E penthouse was fwumping away. I wonder about lots of things. I particularly wonder why you continue to believe that buildings can collapse 'fwump'!

I can only believe it's because you are afraid. Afraid of the truth. Buildings don't like to collapse 'fwump'. If they are going to collapse they like to resist because they were engineered to resist. They collapse in pieces..gradually.. that is..if they are going to colllapse. It takes controlled demolition to make them collapse completely and at high speed. Surely that's not incomprehensible for you? Face your fear..it's not pleasant, but dammit man, the truth rarely is. WTC7's collapse was pre-determined and not an accident of fate as you and the flock try and believe.

MM

 

[GlennB]

GlennB don't muddy the waters with pics of WTC1.

Of course I speculate about what happened inside WTC7 when the E penthouse was fwumping away. I wonder about lots of things. I particularly wonder why you continue to believe that buildings can collapse 'fwump'!

I can only believe it's because you are afraid. Afraid of the truth. Buildings don't like to collapse 'fwump'. If they are going to collapse they like to resist because they were engineered to resist. They collapse in pieces..gradually.. that is..if they are going to colllapse. It takes controlled demolition to make them collapse completely and at high speed. Surely that's not incomprehensible for you? Face your fear..it's not pleasant, but dammit man, the truth rarely is. WTC7's collapse was pre-determined and not an accident of fate as you and the flock try and believe.

MM

It's a photo showing the size of the E Mechanical Penthouse that I happen to have handy in PhotoBucket.

Did they screw up the CD, MM? Causing the E Penthouse to fall into the building several seconds early? Set off a few charges several seconds early?

Strange that the FDNY were freely predicting that this building was going to collapse. It was ablaze, leaning, creaking ... then it fell ...

Can you try to visualise the damage that caused the E Penthouse to fall into the building? Can you then visualise the further damage that it caused on its way down?

Thanks for your concern, but I have no fear of this subject.

 

[A W Smith]

I can only believe it's because you are afraid. Afraid of the truth. Buildings don't like to collapse 'fwump'. If they are going to collapse they like to resist because they were engineered to resist. They collapse in pieces..gradually.. that is..if they are going to colllapse. It takes controlled demolition to make them collapse completely and at high speed. Surely that's not incomprehensible for you? Face your fear..it's not pleasant, but dammit man, the truth rarely is. WTC7's collapse was pre-determined and not an accident of fate as you and the flock try and believe.

MM

Now thats just utter bullshiat. Ive seen plenty of incidents of complete and catastrophic building collapse with no warning at all. Your argument of incredulity doesn't fly here. The only one afraid is you. I don't know how your doing it but you are rapidly losing brain cells.

 

[Kent1]

Key words "would release" ....NO evidence that this actually happened.

Did it ever occur to you that a pipe broke in the south west part of WTC 7, where the debris hit ?

No because we are talking about the Salomon brothers piping system and tank as I explained. See post #1328
I am not talking about the base building distrubtion system on the other side of the 5th.
Again as previously shown, there is evidence.

 

[Christopher7]

Now thats just utter bullshiat. Ive seen plenty of incidents of complete and catastrophic building collapse with no warning at all. Your argument of incredulity doesn't fly here. The only one afraid is you. I don't know how your doing it but you are rapidly losing brain cells.

Please read post #1282