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10 story hole in WTC 7

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Chris, the wTC 7 has been discussed to death here and that you have added nothing new to this thread since its inception, that you are sorely mistaken based on your non-expertise and understanding and that the NIST report is still a preliminary report, and you can't put your faith 100% on what a preliminary report states.

So unless YOU YOURSELF has anything new to add, WHY dont you wait till the more complete report is published?

You are becoming as bad as CHRISTOPHERA.

Sorry, but MagZ missile belief, (as stupid as it is, and not even supported by evidence) is about WTC 7's damage, even though he has nothing to support his claims.
 
This thread is about WTC 7

Please start a thread about missiles if you want but

Stop posting about missiles and the Trade Towers here.

Thank you

Chris
So, when were you made a moderator?
Oh, you weren't?
Then cool your jets, dude.
 
There was NO known damage to the core columns.
The pedestrian bridge was damaged but intact.
There was NO serious debris damage to the eastern 1/3 of WTC 7 below the 12th floor.
There was NO debris damage or diesel fires anywhere near trusses 1 and 2.
It is not known what ejected the elevator cars or which hallway they landed in.
To suggest that column 74 was damaged is pure speculation and highly unlikely as i pointed out in post #948.

Christopher,

One question on all this. What's your evidence that there was no damage to the eastern 1/3 of WTC7 below the 12th floor? I've seen photos of the eastern face of the building, showing it was intact, but the only photos of the south face I've seen are Steve Spak's pictures; these are taken from about west-south-west, and the lower end of the eastern 1/3 of the south face is invisible. Since the NIST preliminary report suggests that the collapse could have initiated from column 79, 80 or 81, and there was damage to the south face believed to go as deep into the structure as 81 (though not at that part of the building), can you be certain that there was no damage to column 81 specifically? Do you have a picture clearly showing the eastern end of the south face that would prove that no such damage occurred?

Dave
 
This thread is about WTC 7

Please start a thread about missiles if you want but

Stop posting about missiles and the Trade Towers here.

Thank you

Chris

Chris, sorry I picked on Mag's pictures to ask my question.

Being able to understand which building is which from pix has been an ongoing problem for me, because of the orientation problem. I simply took those pictures (and Sir Philip's) as an occasion to ask the question.

Firestone: thanks for your help. If I can just remember that the antenna is on the North (#1) tower, it'll help a lot. So long as the pic has the towers standing, that is :)
 
Chris, the wTC 7 has been discussed to death here and that you have added nothing new to this thread since its inception, that you are sorely mistaken based on your non-expertise and understanding and that the NIST report is still a preliminary report, and you can't put your faith 100% on what a preliminary report states.

I have added the location of the tanks, pipes and generators using data from existing reports that will not change in the final report.

This information has not been discussed on this or any other thread that i know of.

You cannot dispute these facts.
 
Christopher,

One question on all this. What's your evidence that there was no damage to the eastern 1/3 of WTC7 below the 12th floor? I've seen photos of the eastern face of the building, showing it was intact, but the only photos of the south face I've seen are Steve Spak's pictures; these are taken from about west-south-west, and the lower end of the eastern 1/3 of the south face is invisible. Since the NIST preliminary report suggests that the collapse could have initiated from column 79, 80 or 81, and there was damage to the south face believed to go as deep into the structure as 81 (though not at that part of the building), can you be certain that there was no damage to column 81 specifically? Do you have a picture clearly showing the eastern end of the south face that would prove that no such damage occurred?

Dave
This thread started with and proved that the 10 story gouge did not exist as it would have left lots of large debris in the lobby area.

There is NO evidence to support the 'belief' that the damage went 'deep' into WTC 7.

The east part of the south side, below floor 12, was not obscured by smoke between 11:30 a.m. and 2:30 p.m.

There was no debris damage reported to this area.

There were, no doubt, photographs of this area taken during this time.

There is a photograph taken from under the pedestrian bridge so there was access to this area.

The government has withheld the photographs of the east part of the south side WTC 7 for over 5 1/2 years.

They are available now only thru the Freedom of Information Act.

I have applied for the photographs of WTC 7 but as yet have not received a reply.
 
There were, no doubt, photographs of this area taken during this time.

There is a photograph taken from under the pedestrian bridge so there was access to this area.

The government has withheld the photographs of the east part of the south side WTC 7 for over 5 1/2 years.

They are available now only thru the Freedom of Information Act.

I have applied for the photographs of WTC 7 but as yet have not received a reply.

What evidence do you have that such photographs exist? And what would they prove if you saw them?
 
I have added the location of the tanks, pipes and generators using data from existing reports that will not change in the final report.

And so what? everyone knows where the tanks are because of the the NIST graphs and layouts of the building. We know that wont change, but a lot of other information could change. Again, you're basing all your premises on a PRELIMINARY report.

This information has not been discussed on this or any other thread that i know of.

You cannot dispute these facts.


why do these things need to be discussed? We already know what is the possible reason for its collapse. We can speculate on 100000000 other reasons to the cause of collapse, but until the NIST reports are COMPLETED, you're just arguing for the sake of arguing.


WHY DONT YOU WAIT UNTIL THE COMPLETE REPORT IS PUBLISHED?
 
When you start with if, anything is possible. Add in 'need not have' and 'could just as easily be' and you are only limited by your imagination.

Oh, the delicious irony, Chris. The delicious irony...

Oh, the coincidence that I was thinking the very same thing.

Chris, you claim that explosives were used to take down WTC 7.

If your contention thus is backed up by any actual evidence whatsoever other than "it could have been because it looks like it" you have yet to demonstrate such evidence. In other words once you categorically reject any theories based upon the very real fact of debris damage and major fires in WTC 7 and instead go with 'it looks like' as the basis of an arguement, you are then limited only by your imagination, and thus we have space based beam weapons, missiles and explosive demolitions!
 
This thread started with and proved that the 10 story gouge did not exist as it would have left lots of large debris in the lobby area.

There is NO evidence to support the 'belief' that the damage went 'deep' into WTC 7.

The east part of the south side, below floor 12, was not obscured by smoke between 11:30 a.m. and 2:30 p.m.

There was no debris damage reported to this area.

There were, no doubt, photographs of this area taken during this time.

There is a photograph taken from under the pedestrian bridge so there was access to this area.

The government has withheld the photographs of the east part of the south side WTC 7 for over 5 1/2 years.

They are available now only thru the Freedom of Information Act.

I have applied for the photographs of WTC 7 but as yet have not received a reply.

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.


Also, from 1207:
You cannot dispute these facts.

This is a gratuitous assertion. I was taught that such could be gratuitously denied.

So: Sure we can.
 
I have added the location of the tanks, pipes and generators using data from existing reports that will not change in the final report.

This information has not been discussed on this or any other thread that i know of.

You cannot dispute these facts.


No one has ever disputed the locations of the fuel tanks and louvers and pipes. Your continued harping that these things will not change is a moot point. No one is argueing them.

Instead we are argueing things such as your rideiculous contention that smoke should, ,, check that,, , must be coming from the louvers if there is a fuel fire on the 5th floor. That certainly need not be the case unless the fire is actually in the generator room! No one has stated(other than you, by your insistence that smoke emanate from the louvers) that this is where the fire should be.

As for the elevator cars being ejected, you seem to be of the impression that something had to hit the cars themselves in order for them to be ejected. Again this need not be the case. Something lodged in the shaft, haveing cut the cables upon entering them, would eject the cars as they fell and ran into the debris. There are probably other modes by which the cars could be ejected as well that do not require falling debris actually hitting the cars. Yes this requires some imagination based upon the actual make up of the building and its systems and the conditions existing in the building. Instead, you simply dismiss this evidence of damage to the central core of the building that does indeed occur 90 feet (or so) into the structure.

You dismiss this because there is no direct evidence of exactly what caused the cars to be ejected, no direct evidence of the amount of damage that resulted as they were ejected from the shafts. However on the other hand you are quite convinced that explsoives were used to demolish this building despite absolutly no direct evidence that such a thing took place and extremly thin circumstantial evidence of it. A non-expert claims he "knows" and explosion when he hears one and you accept it without any question and the building fails internally and since that 'looks like' explosive demoltions that you have seen before you buy into that theory.

Given that there is vastly more circumstantial evidence including some direct evidence that debris damage and/or fire brought down this structure than there is for planted explosives I conclude that you;
a) have quite the double standard regarding evidence,
b) have a political motive for accepting the least likely mode of collapse.
 
This thread started with and proved that the 10 story gouge did not exist as it would have left lots of large debris in the lobby area.

Could you give me a link to the post that contains the proof please? I've seen Steve Spak's photo and it looks pretty clear to me.

There is NO evidence to support the 'belief' that the damage went 'deep' into WTC 7.

The east part of the south side, below floor 12, was not obscured by smoke between 11:30 a.m. and 2:30 p.m.

There was no debris damage reported to this area.

There were, no doubt, photographs of this area taken during this time.

Have you any evidence that such photographs were taken, or is this a belief on your part?

Dave
 
This thread started with and proved that the 10 story gouge did not exist as it would have left lots of large debris in the lobby area.

And then we actually got to see the hole.

There is NO evidence to support the 'belief' that the damage went 'deep' into WTC 7.

And no evidence to the contrary, so far ? We do know the building collapsed, we do know it was damaged by nearby collapses, we do know it was on fire, and we do know it was impossible to rig it with explosives prior to its collapse. What's your point, exactly ?

There is a photograph taken from under the pedestrian bridge so there was access to this area.

I wonder what kind of damage that bridge took or communicated to 7 WTC when 1 WTC came down.
 
Destroying documents - when a paper-shredder would have worked just fine? An insurance scam where the guy takes the money and rebuilds, LOSING money on whole venture?

Actually Larry Silverstien made a fortune in the collapse. He his rebuilding the Freedom Tower with 2.87 Billion of the Port Authorties money. http://www.crainsnewyork.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070222/FREE/70222010/1058/STATIC
and not out of the $3 billion insurance claim.

Before you get out your CT whipin sticks I am not agreeing with CTer's. But that point is moot. He got more crazy rich then he already was.
 
Actually Larry Silverstien made a fortune in the collapse. He his rebuilding the Freedom Tower with 2.87 Billion of the Port Authorties money. http://www.crainsnewyork.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070222/FREE/70222010/1058/STATIC
and not out of the $3 billion insurance claim.

Before you get out your CT whipin sticks I am not agreeing with CTer's. But that point is moot. He got more crazy rich then he already was.
Uhm, how does that make him rich? That money isn't going to him, but to the construction companies building the tower. It's not his own personal piggy bank.
 
And so what? everyone knows where the tanks are because of the the NIST graphs and layouts of the building. We know that wont change, but a lot of other information could change. Again, you're basing all your premises on a PRELIMINARY report.
The data on where the fuel tanks, pipes and generators were is in the FEMA report.

why do these things need to be discussed? We already know what is the possible reason for its collapse. We can speculate on 100000000 other reasons to the cause of collapse, but until the NIST reports are COMPLETED, you're just arguing for the sake of arguing.
What you say you 'know' is the possible reason is based on the PRELIMINARY report.

WHY DONT YOU WAIT UNTIL THE COMPLETE REPORT IS PUBLISHED?
Because we don't need to wait for the final NIST report to know that there were no dieisel fires in the area of the initiating event. The data on the timing and location of the fires to the area of the initiating event is not going to change in the final report.

Will you all stop saying WTC 7 collapsed due to debris damage and fire until the final report comes out ?

It works both ways.

How can you be so sure when NIST only says it "appears possible" ?
 
Oh, the coincidence that I was thinking the very same thing.

Chris, you claim that explosives were used to take down WTC 7.

If your contention thus is backed up by any actual evidence whatsoever other than "it could have been because it looks like it" you have yet to demonstrate such evidence. In other words once you categorically reject any theories based upon the very real fact of debris damage and major fires in WTC 7 and instead go with 'it looks like' as the basis of an arguement, you are then limited only by your imagination, and thus we have space based beam weapons, missiles and explosive demolitions!
It is a very real fact that debris damage was to the middle and west part of WTC 7.

It is a very real fact that there were NO diesel fuel fires in the area of the initiating event.

FEMA pg 28
"there is no physical, photographic or other evidence to substantiate or refute the discharge of fuel oil from the piping system"
 
Actually Larry Silverstien made a fortune in the collapse. He his rebuilding the Freedom Tower with 2.87 Billion of the Port Authorties money. http://www.crainsnewyork.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070222/FREE/70222010/1058/STATIC
and not out of the $3 billion insurance claim.

Before you get out your CT whipin sticks I am not agreeing with CTer's. But that point is moot. He got more crazy rich then he already was.
You "don't agree with CTer's", but repeat one of their most persistent and grotesque lies.

You can read in Ref's Guide about Silverstein's "profits".

You should retract this lie, or start a thread where you explain how "Silverstein made a fortune in the collapse". But be aware that this allegation has been trashed in a number of threads already.

And now back to the "10 story hole in WTC 7" ...
 
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