• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Simple Challenge For Bigfoot Supporters

Status
Not open for further replies.
Hairy Man said:
People shouldn't call designs on totem poles "bigfoot" unless the tribe themselves identified them as such....
Click to expand...

People around here don't seem to like it when we call them kushtakas, either, like the people who created the totems do.
 
Huntster said:
Why do the Native artisans who carve them point to them and call them kushtakas?
Click to expand...

Is it because they are confusing a wild hairy biped with an otter?

Why do folks who make a habit of pooh-poohing sasquatchery point to the native artisans who carved them and call them wrong?
Click to expand...

Because we have no functional evidence that they are right.
 
William Parcher said:
Originally Posted by Huntster
Why do the Native artisans who carve them point to them and call them kushtakas?
Click to expand...

Is it because they are confusing a wild hairy biped with an otter?
Click to expand...

Nope.

It's because they carved an image of the kushtaka on the totem pole.

Why do folks who make a habit of pooh-poohing sasquatchery point to the native artisans who carved them and call them wrong?
Click to expand...

Because we have no functional evidence that they are right.
Click to expand...

And you have no functional evidence that they are wrong.
 
Huntster said:
Maybe.

But why do the rest of the Gulf of Alaska natives {Tsimshian, Haida, Chugach, etc) share the tradition and also have current sightings, and Aleuts & Alutiiq do not, despite a long tradition of trade, warfare, intermingling, etc?
Click to expand...

Different culture, different tribe, different beliefs?

Got any current leprechaun sightings, footprints, etc?
Click to expand...
No, what does that have to do with the lack of leprechaun belief in France?

RayG
 
I'm especially thick today, can someone please explain how a shape-shifting otter-man equates to what has been described as a bigfoot?

Is it because there are stories of both stealing children? The physical description doesn't seem to match.

I'm just not getting it...

RayG
 
RayG said:
Originally Posted by Huntster
....But why do the rest of the Gulf of Alaska natives {Tsimshian, Haida, Chugach, etc) share the tradition and also have current sightings, and Aleuts & Alutiiq do not, despite a long tradition of trade, warfare, intermingling, etc?
Click to expand...

Different culture, different tribe, different beliefs?
Click to expand...

But why do the rest of the Gulf of Alaska natives {Tsimshian, Haida, Chugach, etc) share the tradition and also have current sightings, and Aleuts & Alutiiq do not, despite a long tradition of trade, warfare, intermingling, etc.

Got any current leprechaun sightings, footprints, etc?
Click to expand...

No, what does that have to do with the lack of leprechaun belief in France?
Click to expand...

Because there are current reports of sasquatchery on POW Island (from Natives and whites alike), no current reports of sasquatchery on Kodiak Island (from either Natives or whites), and no current reports of leprechauns in Ireland (that I know of).

So:

Got any current leprechaun sightings, footprints, etc?
 
kitakaze said:
....BTW, you forgot to answer mine which was: In their respective habitats, how do you think a sasquatch's survival behaviour compares to a brown bear?....
Click to expand...

Sorry. I missed that question. I'm going pretty fast here dealing with "others."

This question actually relates closely to the question I asked you regarding Kodiak Island/POW Island.

I believe the relationship between sasquatches and brown bears is very similar to the relationship between black bears and brown bears.

I believe sasquatches avoid brown bears like (and for the same reason) black bears (and everything else, except idiots like Timothy Treadwell) avoid them:

Brown bears are nasty, aggressive, powerful, huge, and simply intolerable.

The Kodiak Archipelago, along with the ABC Islands in the Alexander Archipelago (Admiralty, Baranov, and Chichigof) boast the highest densities of brown bears on Earth. Interestingly, the habitat differs a bit. The majority of Kodiak Island itself is not densely forested, but is grassy and brushy (which is typical Alaskan brown bear habitat), but the ABC Islands are densely forested (like POW Island).

Robert Alley has recorded a few sightings on Admiralty Island (I believe it was), but the vast majority of sightings he has recorded in SE Alaska have been on Revelligigedo and POW Islands, where black bears are the only bears inhabiting the islands.
 
Huntster said:
But why do the rest of the Gulf of Alaska natives {Tsimshian, Haida, Chugach, etc) share the tradition and also have current sightings, and Aleuts & Alutiiq do not, despite a long tradition of trade, warfare, intermingling, etc.
Click to expand...

Why should one tribe have exactly the same beliefs as another? Two tribes, even if living in close proximity, may have completely different stories and traditions.

Because there are current reports of sasquatchery on POW Island (from Natives and whites alike), no current reports of sasquatchery on Kodiak Island (from either Natives or whites), and no current reports of leprechauns in Ireland (that I know of).
Click to expand...
In your opinon, does culture/tradition/belief have any bearing on the matter?

RayG
 
LTC8K6 said:
So, there isn't any evidence that kushtaka means bigfoot?

I have already presented an anthropologist's opinion that it does not.
Click to expand...

I'm an anthropologist as well, and very well studied on NA lore (I can give you my vita if you request).

I already posted a list of published references that are available for you to check the association of kushtaka and it's traditional lore with the Tlingit. Internet references are not references and unacceptable as sources in professional publications.

I am sure it's possible that materials from ethnographers from the 1800s (who are people who study native cultures first hand and record the information) aren't perfect, however you haven't presented any ethnographic studies that suggest that the meaning of the word has changed or was incorrect since that time. Give me one and I will gladly look it up (and the reference needs to be from an anthropology journal, article, book, etc., not an internet reference).
 
RayG said:
Originally Posted by Huntster
But why do the rest of the Gulf of Alaska natives {Tsimshian, Haida, Chugach, etc) share the tradition and also have current sightings, and Aleuts & Alutiiq do not, despite a long tradition of trade, warfare, intermingling, etc.
Click to expand...


Why should one tribe have exactly the same beliefs as another?
Click to expand...

Why should all the tribes of the region have that specific belief except one?

Two tribes, even if living in close proximity, may have completely different stories and traditions.
Click to expand...

Like they have two completely different species of bears?

Because there are current reports of sasquatchery on POW Island (from Natives and whites alike), no current reports of sasquatchery on Kodiak Island (from either Natives or whites), and no current reports of leprechauns in Ireland (that I know of).
Click to expand...

In your opinon, does culture/tradition/belief have any bearing on the matter?
Click to expand...

Of course. Culture/tradition/belief are part of the human testimony record right along with current reports.

In this case, the culture/tradition/belief differences match the current report differences like a glove.

Again, Glickman addressed this phenomenon of differing report densities in the Lower 48 states.

Remember?.......................

Why can Glickman record his findings publically (with his professional name signed on it) and the posters here cannot post as reasonable an explanation in anonymity?
 
LTC8K6 said:
I'm especially thick today, can someone please explain how a shape-shifting otter-man equates to what has been described as a bigfoot?
Click to expand...

.....Or Beckjord is closer to the truth....
Click to expand...

Or the Tlingit people (like peoples and cultures everywhere) have "Beckjords" in their midst.............

Of course, like I've noted, except for the Alutiiq (as well as the current modern population of the Kodiak Archipelago).

I wonder why that might be?.......................
 
Emmons, George Thornton. The Whale House of the Chilkat. New York,
AmericanMuseum of Natural History, 1916.

Henshaw, Henry W. and John R. Swanton. Tlingit. U. S. Bureau of American
Ethnology, Bulletin 30, pt. 2 (1910).

Oberg, Kalervo. The social economy of the Tlingit Indians. Chicago,
University of Chicago, 1937.

Swanton, John Reed. Social condition, beliefs, and linguistic relationship of the Tlingit Indians. U. S. Bureau of American Ethnology, Annual Report, 26
(1904-1905).
Click to expand...

These books contain evidence that the tlingit people describe kushtaka in ways that match bigfoot?
 
LTC8K6 said:
These books contain evidence that the tlingit people describe kushtaka in ways that match bigfoot?
Click to expand...

When l go home, I will pull the books and try and find the exact reference/page number.

The link you posted isn't working for me, but is that the book on-line? COOL! Is it searchable?

Are there any other specific tribes/words you are interested in so I can look for those books at the same time?
 
The link you posted isn't working for me, but is that the book on-line? COOL! Is it searchable?
Click to expand...

I believe it is a pdf of the book and it did appear to be searchable. It's about 16 megabytes. I looked at it briefly. It has beautiful pics. I will look at it again later.
 
LTC8K6 said:
I believe it is a pdf of the book and it did appear to be searchable. It's about 16 megabytes. I looked at it briefly. It has beautiful pics. I will look at it again later.
Click to expand...

It came up but the search doesn't work, so I went through it line-by-line and no, it doesn't say kû'cta-qa is a bigfoot. I also found both Swanton books on-line and while both books discuss otter-man and giants and provide very cool stories, he doesn't directly say, "kû'cta-qa, Otter-man, is a hairy giant." Soooo...I will check the other book at home and another book I am thinking of...otherwise if I have to eat some crow, I prefer it warm.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Back
Top Bottom