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Obama in the ring

steverino said:
We Illinois Republicans voted him in over that scoundrel, Alan Keyes. His job, we thought, was to represent Illinois and represent ALL THE PEOPLE, as both aisle sides voted for him. Now he is in Iowa spewing platitudes..."Where we were struggling, we now have hope...where there was a rush to make war, we can now rush toward peace"...etc.

Well, when the gay community starts marching in the thousands for gay marriage, and when the Kyoto Accord is again brought to the senate, and as the immigration barrier on the Southern border readies, the good senator of Illinois will no longer have the luxury of straddling the fence, but will be forced to move beyond platitudes and take a stand. He can play on being kind of black, and also kind of white, but on matters of policy he cannot be kind of liberal and kind of conservative. America won't buy it.
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Maybe, maybe not - I know I am liberal on some things and conservative on others - somebody close enough to my positions both directions certainly stands the liklihood of getting my vote !:)
 
steverino said:
You miss half the gist of my post. Obama was elected by Republicans to function in Illinois. Many of us feel he has been disloyal by flying all over the country to sell his book, fund-raise, and now go national without doing the job we had hired him to do.
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I would think that you'd be thrilled at the prospect of having your judgement in electing Obama to the senate so thoroughly vindicated by the rest of the country in his swift elevation to the big job. :D
 
hgc said:
I would think that you'd be thrilled at the prospect of having your judgement in electing Obama to the senate so thoroughly vindicated by the rest of the country in his swift elevation to the big job. :D
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As you liberals said of the great John Kerry, "He was the lessor of two evils."
 
fuelair said:
Maybe, maybe not - I know I am liberal on some things and conservative on others - somebody close enough to my positions both directions certainly stands the liklihood of getting my vote !:)
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We don't know his positions yet. I might be for him too. :confused:
 
So, why should I vote for Obama? It's a bit early for me to try sorting out the candidates so I really don't know anything about him other than he is being portrayed as a charismatic democrat rising star.

From the very little reading I have done on him he seems to be the 3rd most 'liberal' on some scale or the other.

I have also read that he pays lip service to conservative views, then virtually always votes liberal.

This squares with my reading of his actual words where he seems to avoid ever saying anything bad toward anyone, never faults anyone or anything for any disadvantage he may encounter and generally seems very likable.

While I freely admit that I would like to see someone intelligent, articulate and civil as the next president (couldn't we all use a change from the Bush era?) I really don't know a thing about Obama or what he would do regarding global warming, taxes, terrorism, Iraq, Social Security, the war on some drugs or anything else.

Where does he stand on the issues?

Does anyone know and it just isn't being reported or is this a case where the man is running on hype and charisma?
 
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steverino said:
We Illinois Republicans voted him in over that scoundrel, Alan Keyes. His job, we thought, was to represent Illinois and represent ALL THE PEOPLE, as both aisle sides voted for him. Now he is in Iowa spewing platitudes..."Where we were struggling, we now have hope...where there was a rush to make war, we can now rush toward peace"...etc.
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On this I can only say that: while I dislike Hilary Clinton and the fact that she is leaving the Senate to campaign, at least she has actually been a part of the Senate for a few years. Obama has yet to prove he merits consideration on a National level. He may not have to prove it-- BushII didn't, but we all know how that turned out.

steverino said:
Well, when the gay community starts marching in the thousands for gay marriage, and when the Kyoto Accord is again brought to the senate, and as the immigration barrier on the Southern border readies, the good senator of Illinois will no longer have the luxury of straddling the fence, but will be forced to move beyond platitudes and take a stand. He can play on being kind of black, and also kind of white, but on matters of policy he cannot be kind of liberal and kind of conservative. America won't buy it.
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I hope he will be forced to actually run on some sort of platform. Whether I like it or not, at least the other candidates have actually had to deal with the horrors of big politics. Should the presidency really be Obama's first time around the dance floor? Or will he just start campaigning for re-election January 21, 2009?

Also, I have heard Obama does very poorly in polls with African-Americans (as he has not really had the African-American experience). Will the Black community rally around Obama, or will they stick with Hilary?
 
Roswell-Perseis said:
Also, I have heard Obama does very poorly in polls with African-Americans (as he has not really had the African-American experience). Will the Black community rally around Obama, or will they stick with Hilary?
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Personally, I am uncomfortable lumping "the African American vote" into one bundle of votes for one candidate. After all, some blacks might actually vote Republican. Others might sit the election out, feeling no candidate is connecting with their experience.

I think the Clintons have been amazingly popular with African Americans. Then you weigh that against Oprah's outspoken support for Obama, and this is gunna make things very spicy, eh?
 
Cylinder said:
What a relief! After reading the title of this thread I was worried that Obama was claiming paternity of Anna Nichole's love child.
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LOL, this was a good shot. I got a good long belly-laugh right up from the diaphragm out of this one. Thanks for my daily dose.

Cylinder said:
I don't think Obama can survive the primary and he certainly would not survive the general election. Too little time in the bigs makes him very vulnerable.
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On a more serious note, I agree with this. I like Obama a lot- I'm just not sure he's ready yet. In an ideal world, as I think I said elsewhere, he would just not quite win the primary, but wouldn't come out spoiled goods. I'd love the chance to vote for him in 2012, when I expect he will be seasoned and fully ready to take on the worst they can throw at him. Right now, "he's young" is the first thing out of a lot of peoples' mouths. But man, he has the right stuff. I've rarely seen anyone who had that much charisma. And don't get me wrong- I don't think he should pull out. I think the experience will be very valuable, as will the name recognition next time 'round.

Right now John is my boi. Hilary just doesn't float my boat; I can't forget some of that new media suppression she was all hot on with Tipper, and Jon has sworn off that. He's after my demographic, and he's winning with me right now. We'll see when things get a little further along if Hilary doesn't come more my way too; this could get to be an easier choice, or a whole lot harder. And who knows? I'm thinking about getting involved in the Draft Al movement too.
 
And don't be talking about positions this early. John has universal healthcare. I bet Hilary has one too (haven't looked). At this point, it's a popularity contest- who would you have over for dinner? How about sittin' down for a brewski on the porch?

Later we'll get into the meat of it. For now just enjoy the show.
 
steverino said:
Personally, I am uncomfortable lumping "the African American vote" into one bundle of votes for one candidate. After all, some blacks might actually vote Republican. Others might sit the election out, feeling no candidate is connecting with their experience.

I think the Clintons have been amazingly popular with African Americans. Then you weigh that against Oprah's outspoken support for Obama, and this is gunna make things very spicy, eh?
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I absolutely think this will be "very spicy".

I understand being uncomfortable with lumping voters, but consolidation of power has led to the huge gains in rights for African-Americans in the US. While I know it is wrong to stereotype (and I'm very sorry that is how my post came out), I am sure that a consolidation of African-American Democratic votes would make Obama a stronger candidate. The fact that he has polled poorly with the voters poor and working class African-American voters may be startling to me because I live in Michigan where we may show up as a blue state, but that's only because of Detroit and (to a much smaller degree) Lansing. It's early, so perhaps he will be able to win some of the African-American votes while keeping the middle and upper-middle class white votes.
 
Does anyone else remember why Bush was widely percieved in a more favorable light in the pre-election 2000 debates and what voters were put off from Gore by? It's also easily in the top five worst ever reasons to elect any political candidate. America-possibly the slowest learning group of voters in the world.
 
I don't recall that either one really won; Gore was widely seen to have won the third and final, but only by a razor-thin margin; some thought he was incisive and hammered Bush, others thought he was arrogant like the second one. The other two, IIRC, were split between the candidates; Gore won the first one by a similarly small margin, and got complacent in the second and came off arrogant, and lost it.

It was really very, very tight going into the final stretch. We (my household) really did think up until the last moment that he had won. And quite frankly, I still do.
 
username said:
So, why should I vote for Obama?
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Because he doesn't appear to completely venal and self serving? After all, we did elect a man, twice, who's only apparent qualities were that he is venal and self serving.
 
I haven't read much about him, but from what I've read so far, I'm starting to like him.

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1546579-1,00.html
It was because of these newfound understandings--that religious commitment did not require me to suspend critical thinking, disengage from the battle for economic and social justice, or otherwise retreat from the world that I knew and loved--that I was finally able to walk down the aisle of Trinity United Church of Christ one day and be baptized. It came about as a choice and not an epiphany; the questions I had did not magically disappear.
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[...]we live in a pluralistic society, that I can't impose my religious views on another, that I was running to be a U.S. senator from Illinois and not the minister of Illinois.
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Wow, a religious person with critical thinking skills!

Does anyone know what his opinions are on atheism, and science?
 
I also am finding myself excited by Obama's excellent rhetoric. Of course, the cynic in me expects to be disappointed as with any in the past, but somehow I still keep hoping.

To keep people interested in voting for him, he must not sell himself only by positioning on the liberal/conservative scale. He can be solidly liberal and get plenty of votes if he convinces people he's a SMART and SENSIBLE liberal. I see it over and over again, a majority of Americans interested in liberal initiatives, but in the end disgusted at their execution or by the individual candidates offering them up.

Maybe he will and maybe he won't. The real test will come later.
 
Here's the hottest news, straight off the Colbert Report. Obama is not Black. That's right. According to Deborah Dickerson, only descendents of slaves are entitled to that label. Obama is the decendant of fairly recent Kenyan immigrants, so he has not had the Black Experience.

Will being non-Black help or hurt him at the polls? Only time will tell.

No I take that back. That's not the hottest news. The hottest news, in terms of smoking hot is... Smoking!

That's right, Barack Obama is one of those nasty, smelly nicotine addicts. Will that make a difference? It does for at least one voter.
It's a deal breaker, Barack, baby. Go hang with Chad. I don't date smokers, and I won't vote for one either.
...
Anyone who smokes despite its health ramifications either has delusions of invulnerability, a self-destructive streak, is in denial or is willfully ignorant. Not the kind of guy you want to go out with much less the kind of guy you want running the free world.
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What other horrible skeletons does Barack have in his closet? We the public have a right to know!
 
Anyone who smokes despite its health ramifications either has delusions of invulnerability, a self-destructive streak, is in denial or is willfully ignorant.
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Or is addicted to nicotine.
 
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