Simple Challenge For Bigfoot Supporters

[William Parcher]

No. I thought Diogenes speaks for the board. He sounded like he did.

Growing weary of fighting Medusa (The Many-headed Beast of Bigfoot Skepticism)?

Me too. I've posted it.

Can anyone find a working link or achived clip?

Buddies? More like neighbors.

No kidding. Apparently, Bob Heironimus has always lived "nearby on the same Yakima street" as Bob Gimlin. What is striking is that BH is accusing his living neighbor of lying about the PGF ever since October 20, 1967. My feeling is that Heironimus is either an insane libelous human trash, or he really was Patty. He has always walked like Patty does and was also a "cowboy actor" in Patterson's Bigfoot documentary. Bob Heironimus is claiming that P&G had to help him climb into the Patty costume at Bluff Creek. Yeah, a guy is saying that his living neighbor (Gimlin) actually did this and has been lying about it ever since.

His IM index isn't 88 and he said he wore his own clothes under the suit. He was much thinner then. You're forgetting about that rotating knee. That wasn't confirmed until the making of LMS.

The IM index of Patty is about as confirmed as the existence of Bigfoot. BH walks (strides) just like Patty. Are you blind, deluded or what?

C'mon. He didn't even know where the film was shot. And then there's the witness who heard him talking with his barroom buddies about how he was going do this. He was trying to sell his story before Greg Long bit.

Why not mention the testimony of witnesses that saw the Bigfoot costume in Heironimus's car trunk?

That's not what BH was saying.

What exactly did he say?

Roger didn't get the camera out until after the horse went down. Gimlin had his eyes on the creature, was busy keeping his own horse under control and may just not have seen what was going on with Roger. A small quarter horse could have been down and up in an instant.

Or none of that happened because it was a planned hoax.

Only for the last thirty-nine years, I'd say. You think you're the first?

It doesn't matter who was first. What was on the missing footage? Isn't that the important question.

 

[RayG]

The moon was full, or nearly so, when I posted. I checked the almanac.

Jeebus, what does superstitious thinking about the moon have to do with anything?

Not unlike the full scale attack you and JimF launched on CF for doing nothing more than posting his pictures and supporting his POV? You two got suspended finally for that didn't you?

And I believe CF got himself banned. Don't forget that little nugget of info.

You did about the same to Rick Noll when he came to share insider infomation on MD.

Maybe if Rick weren't so thin-skinned he wouldn't have taken his toys and gone home.

Someone told me you like to pick fights. I didn't believe it until I saw it. I still thought you were a great guy because you stood up for me when Yetifan started using me as a straight man. Maybe you are a great guy. I don't know.

Yes LAL, there is still much you assume because you don't know.

You called CF the biggest moron on the board. He is my buddy.

And as far as I'm concerend, your buddy is a logically-impaired troll. Let him prove otherwise.

How many times have I stated I used to live in Skamania County, Washington? It's still one of the hottest spots in the country, I believe. I've slipped on a log and dipped my cameras in a stream in North Carolina, too, while marvelling how much like Oregon it is.

It wouldn't matter if you lived your whole life in Bluff Creek, it wouldn't make you an expert on bigfoot.

What do they gain by ganging up on people who dare to question their pronouncements? Is that being objective or is the idea to run their critics off the board?

One might say the same thing over at the BFF. LAL started a thread lamenting the departure of Rick Noll and it turned into a bashing session for anyone who questioned Rick's pronouncements.

Read some of their insults before you decide I'm starting all this or that I haven't put up with months or years of it before finally getting fed up.

But apparently it wasn't insulting for nasty comments to be hurled at those who question Rick's methods or results. Those in disagreement were given some pretty unflattering labels.

One of the posters on your board was so insulting to Melissa regarding her association with Rick Noll I couldn't understand why the post wasn't removed and the member banned.

Maybe that river flows both ways?

I know you were being looked at as a "troublemaker". For awhile I thought you'd been banned.

LAL, you again assume much. From a romantic viewpoint BD was a troublemaker, but to those interested in sticking to facts, BD was anything but a troublemaker.

Well, no one asked you to post here. Or did they?

No invitation required before posting here. I hope you're not suggesting otherwise, because that would be yet another assumption.

Sorry, I'm no longer in touch with him or I'd post an affadavit. He nicely said he'd played the best Northwest Women's Champion and I was a far stronger player than she. Then his cousin told me who he was. I was so psyched out I never beat him again.

No affadavit required, his name would suffice. Someone ask LAL what her chess rating is and how many games she actually played against this International Grandmaster.

RayG

 

[LAL]

LAL wrote:

I wish I had quotes of those verbal attacks handy...I'd post them...for all to enjoy.

Well, here's the one I remembered (not quite correctly):

"At the risk of being banned from this forum let me say that Coolfoot you are without a doubt the biggest moron I have seen here in a long, long time. I have no idea what you are talking about and I doubt anybody else does either.

Mods, I expect you to ban me but I've had enough of this BS and I won't try and be polite anymore.

Coolfoot... Grow UP. admit you were wrong and try and be a man.

Lu, you put yourself in bad company."

http://www.bigfootforums.com/index.php?showtopic=16050&st=150&p=339106&#entry339106

Just look for the closed threads. That might make your search easier.

 

[RayG]

While all the nattering back and forth about dermals and such is entertaining, wouldn't it be nice if, as kitakaze suggested, evidence were provided showing 2 prints or one trackway having the same exact dermals?

RayG

 

[LAL]

Growing weary of fighting Medusa (The Many-headed Beast of Bigfoot Skepticism)?

Not at all. I thought you all had given up on BH because the evidence is "tainted". Thus spake Diogenes.

Can anyone find a working link or achived clip?

I've tried. I couldn't. The story is archived, but truncated.

No kidding. Apparently, Bob Heironimus has always lived "nearby on the same Yakima street" as Bob Gimlin. What is striking is that BH is accusing his living neighbor of lying about the PGF ever since October 20, 1967. My feeling is that Heironimus is either an insane libelous human trash,

I think that's Gimlin's opinion, more or less. Don't forget profit motive.

or he really was Patty. He has always walked like Patty does and was also a "cowboy actor" in Patterson's Bigfoot documentary. Bob Heironimus is claiming that P&G had to help him climb into the Patty costume at Bluff Creek. Yeah, a guy is saying that his living neighbor (Gimlin) actually did this and has been lying about it ever since.

His word gainst Gimlin's, right? How many different suits were there again?

Gimlin had every reason to "out" Patterson. Patterson screwed him. But he never has.

What took Heironimous so long?

The IM index of Patty is about as confirmed as the existence of Bigfoot. BH walks (strides) just like Patty. Are you blind, deluded or what?

The IM index can't be confirmed unless someone finds her intact bones, but the measurements can be taken on the standing frames with a fair degree of accuracy.The digital analysis was very close to Meldrum's, and it was done independently.

I'd like to find the clip. Even better is the one in costume, and no, he doesn't walk like Patty. Walking on concrete and grass might be a little different than walking across a sandbar and over debris with a helmet head and one eye, don't you think?

Have you read Long? Check the "Eureka!" moment on the glass eye.

Why not mention the testimony of witnesses that saw the Bigfoot costume in Heironimus's car trunk?

Or the kid who said it stank?

He allegedly was going around in a suit scaring people in the Yakima area. If there was a suit at all, it could have been that suit. But why doesn't he know where it is?

Eyewitness testimony is okay for sceptics if it supports their POV, I take it.

Long has a story about Roger renting a suit for three days from LA. He was making a documentary, had been collecting accounts for years, and a suit would be necessary for a reenactment. Nothing too unusual there.

But Long has Heironimus saying Roger skinned out a dead red horse to make a suit and Morris selling him one, so that's about four suits so far, isn't it?

What exactly did he say?

I'll try to find the link. I hope I saved it.

Or none of that happened because it was a planned hoax.

Or it did because it wasn't.

It doesn't matter who was first. What was on the missing footage? Isn't that the important question.

Not really. The BBC had it last. The missing footage was shots of scenery and horseback riding. I've seen some of that, including Roger casting, in the 1971 documentary, Bigfoot; Man or Beast, available from Bijouflix. It's pretty good. Fred Beck and Albert Ostman were in it.

Of course, I don't think the genius who pulled off the greatest hoax in history would have filmed BH getting in and out of the suit, do you?

 

[LAL]

He has been accused of using poor scientific methodology (on Bigfoot evidence) by other scientists.

The physicists? He got his tenure because of it, even though some of his collegues didn't agree with his conclusions.

His funding is coming from an individual at Fidelity, who apparently thinks he is on the right track. It's not like the whole world suddenly realized that Meldrum is the modern Galileo and then emptied their pockets for him.

Of course not. I was talking about ISU matching funds.

I'm curious what Meldrum's beliefs are. He has presented some ambiguity on this in recent interviews because he has said different things.

Not sure what you're referring to here.
[/QUOTE]
Is his usage of the funds directed towards confirming a creature that he already knows exists ... or is he directing it towards a search to determine if the creature does really exist?[/QUOTE]

I think he's sure enough he's after confirmation in the form of DNA.

That might sound like a meaningless semantic question, but it is not. Because it makes a difference on how Meldrum proceeds with his research and funding. If his belief in BF existence is certain, then he might be expected to continually solicit and accept any funding to confirm what he already knows. If he is uncertain of Bigfoot's existence, he may be inclined to formulate an exit plan at some point when he feels that reality has pushed the "needle" far towards the probability that Bigfoot does not exist. I can't seem to figure out where Jeff Meldrum stands.

Read his book. He makes it pretty clear, and gives his supporting evidence. I don't think he's going to recant anytime soon.

What does any of that have to do with the question of the existence of Bigfoot? Are we all supposed to think, "Since rabbits can seem to disappear, then Bigfoot might not be a myth."?

I was trying to point out it doesn't take paranormal explanations. Stepping behind a tree might be all that is required. I get the idea some of you have never been in a real forest.

explanations for How can anything Powell said bring us to a better understanding of Bigfoot?

It's a good book. He was an investigator for ten years. I had an idea it was fruitcake stuff just because Jon-Erik insisted I read it. I was pleasantly surprised.

Thom gave this account

http://www.bfro.net/GDB/show_report.asp?id=2886

from a wildlife biologist, which also happens to be on line. The investigator is a reputable anthropologist.

Lu! Can't you possibly open your mind to the possibility that Meldrum et al are mistaken? Jeff is a smart guy and I am fully prepared to grant him the deserved honor of being wrong, instead of daft.

I think he might be wrong about Terra Amata in light of equally old prints on Roccamonfina volcano in Italy, but I'm not the foot anatomy specialist and Terra Amata is poorly published.

I don't know that the unparsimonious explanation of bipedalism evolving independently in an Orangutan relative is correct either, but there is an example of that happening in Oreopithecus bambolii.

Screw all of that. These folks have film and photographic evidence of an undiscovered wild North American bipedal primate. Why the hell don't they "do the right thing" and turn this stuff over to a scientific institution for purposes of research? Does Patty Patterson believe that Bigfoot exists? I guess it doesn't matter.

I would love to see her turn over all of her memorabilia on the PGF to a public trust at a scientific institution. The same is true for the original Cibachromes (not copies) held by the Dahindens. Additionally, I would love to see Green and others donate their early film copies to the same cause. What are they all waiting for?

Ask them. The Smithsonian has Krantz' bones. One of Roger's first stops was Yerkes. It's not like he was trying to keep his film from science. Dahinden took it to Russia.

Is he willing to lend his copy to anyone for a digital film frame by film frame modern reproduction (for public examination and research)?

Ask him.

I can't speak for Greg, but Green would need to watch me. I'll have a pair of sharpened Fiskars ready when Green gives me his precious celluloid. I'm part of a vast conspiracy to prevent Bigfoot from being real. I wear black.

I'm sure you look good in it, too.

 

[SweatyYeti]

William Parcher wrote:

BH walks (strides) just like Patty. Are you blind, deluded or what?

Here's a comparison of Bob H. and Patty.
Bob's arms aren't quite long enough in proportion to his body. That's a MAJOR problem, because Patty's fingers clearly bend in the film....so Patty's fingers cannot be Bob's fingers.
They probably belong to Patty herself....a real live Bigfoot.

 

[Melissa]

Thank you for posting that SweatyYeti. Question, if the feet of both of the photo subjects are at roughly even with one another - how are the hips so out of wack? Is it because of trying to match the photos up? It would appear to me BH's hips are higher than Pattys... Can someone explain why that is? Photo analysis is not my strong point.

Thanks

 

[Skeptical Greg]

PEAR? Swindler and Meldrum submitted a paper to AAAS.

That was rejected ....

 

[Skeptical Greg]

Whoa !!!

BFF seems to be off the air .. Domain expired .. Did anyone know of this ?

http://www.bigfootforums.com/index.php?showforum=35

 

[LAL]

Ah, found the clip. It's from the National Geographic special.

http://www.hmds.ws/Pics/BHinterview.wmv

Not only did he say Roger was mounted, he was supposedly holding the camera aloft.

 

[Melissa]

Dont worry Diogenes, its back up and running... Besides, LAL and I will always be here for you

 

[LAL]

Dont worry Diogenes, its back up and running... Besides, LAL and I will always be here for you

Oh, no! I wish there were a way to filter so completely I won't even know he's posted.

BFF is up but a little weird. I tried a reply and got the expired screen. Another post was fine. Searches are fine.

 

[Melissa]

Oh, no! I wish there were a way to filter so completely I won't even know he's posted.

BFF is up but a little weird. I tried a reply and got the expired screen. Another post was fine. Searches are fine.

Well, its down for me again. Humm, guess we will just have to stay here and keep diogenes company.

 

[LAL]

Found this:

http://www.bigfootforums.com/index.php?showtopic=13738&hl=

Patty and a much slimmer Bob as he looked then.

And in costume:

 

[LAL]

Well, its down for me again. Humm, guess we will just have to stay here and keep diogenes company.

Speak for yourself, Mel. I may go watch that DVD on Troy after all.

 

[kitakaze]

Sweet Zombie Jesus! The thread is going tango umbrella. I see my reason for not touching the BFF with a 10" pole is going moot as well.

As an update Meldrum has yet to respond to my mail and invitation. It's less than a week and he is very busy so I won't chalk it up to an inability to address the easiest question on dermal claims just yet. Any newer members that haven't seen that mail or the proper version of my sig can see it here.

Just a few thoughts:

I'm not sure but Parcher, I think I can blame you for the thread taking a nosedive by mentioning the word 'evidence' and 'bigfooters' in the same sentence (or it could have been me). That's all it seems to take to get people like Sweaty screeching back in, ankled pants, simian grin if the conversation strays from testing/verifying claims.

I won't bother pointing fingers but I think more than a couple people are being a little about some of this. So far as I can tell, I'm not sure how to interpret Melissa's activities beyond having succeeded in casting dermatoglyphics in Onion Mountain soil. Apparently, we have people other than Tube finding dessication lines and it would seem likely we will find more if we just ask. If I'm wrong in my assessment please tell me, Melissa.

And just a suggestion but maybe we could post extensively about the PGF in the PGF thread?

 

[Skeptical Greg]

Sweet Zombie Jesus! The thread is going tango umbrella. I see my reason for not touching the BFF with a 10" pole is going moot as well.

As an update Meldrum has yet to respond to my mail and invitation. It's less than a week and he is very busy so I won't chalk it up to an inability to address the easiest question on dermal claims just yet. Any newer members that haven't seen that mail or the proper version of my sig can see it here.

I posted a note about your email to Dr. M. over at BFF in one of the dermal threads..

Those that responded agreed it was a good question, but also agreed they were not aware of two good ( dermal yielding ) prints from the same trackway. It seems dermals only come in sets of one..

The total lack of flexion creases is laughable.. It should be the end of the discussion...

 

[LAL]

Sweet Zombie Jesus! The thread is going tango umbrella. I see my reason for not touching the BFF with a 10" pole is going moot as well.

<snip>

What a terrible thing to say about Blackdog! He hardly even posts there any more.

And just a suggestion but maybe we could post extensively about the PGF in the PGF thread?

Well, you know how it is: when the katz away, the mice will play. Personally I like having all the tangents on one thread. Keeping up with half a dozen threads last year with new ones starting behind my back was a bit much even for me.

 

[SweatyYeti]

Melissa wrote:

Thank you for posting that SweatyYeti.

You're welcome Melissa. It's a great comparison image...isn't it?!

Thanks Lu for posting Blackdog's attack post!
But that one was just the appetizer......we need to find and re-post the "main meal" attack posts.

I think Blackdog is gonna look them up for us, and post them here tomorrow.