Has Anyone Seen A Realistice Explanation For Free Fall Of The Towers?

[Gamolon]

Yes, it is clear to see how little space there was between the thick core walls and the perimeter columns.

http://misheli.image.pbase.com/o2/78/583378/1/52419073.wtclobby.jpg
http://www.newyork-net.de/images/WorldTradeCenter_Lobby.jpg

I've seen no images of steel core columns, so I'm unsure of what you are talking about there unless it is the constrcution images which are misrepresented. They show elevator guide rail supports protruding from the core area. If that guide rail was actually core column it would still be standing here.

Concrete Core Of WTC 2​

and here

http://home.comcast.net/~jeffrey.king2/spire_dust-3.jpg

Post number 67 has a good explanation of the guide rail supports here,

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=72941&page=2

Were the elevators positioned outside or inside your supposed core?

 

[Christophera]

Were the elevators positioned outside or inside your supposed core?

The elevators were inside the tubular, steel reinforced cast concrete core. The main reason the elevators were so fast in the towers was becaues of the perfect alignment of the guide rail supports which were fastened to the inside of the concrete core walls.

There is a good description of the guide rail supports here, post #67,

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=72941&page=2

 

[Gamolon]

The elevators were inside the tubular, steel reinforced cast concrete core. The main reason the elevators were so fast in the towers was becaues of the perfect alignment of the guide rail supports which were fastened to the inside of the concrete core walls.

There is a good description of the guide rail supports here, post #67,

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=72941&page=2

Let me get this straight.

Inside the core correct?

Follow me here.

On the lobby floor. Where the concrete core walls would be the thickest, meaning 17' by your account.

Wouldn't there have to be a 17' long access corridor, cutting through the concrete from the open lobby to the elevator doors, for people to go through?

Can you also explain to me how your solid concrete core withstood the 3' sway the towers sometimes had without cracking or losing any of it's structural integrity?

 

[Christophera]

Let me get this straight.

Inside the core correct?

Follow me here.

On the lobby floor. Where the concrete core walls would be the thickest, meaning 17' by your account.
Wouldn't there have to be a 17' long access corridor, cutting through the concrete from the open lobby to the elevator doors, for people to go through?

204 x 204 inside perimeter, 80 x 120 core, inside, 2 foot thick at the top, 12 long axis walls at base, 17 short axis walls at base.

Long axis lobby

120+34(wall2 x 17)=154-204 =50/2=25 lobby width.

Below I would guess is WTC 2 looking south on the east side of the core in the afternoon.

Observe the proportion of the mezzanine that wraps to the right core end!!
Scale in brain. Very small by comparison.

http://misheli.image.pbase.com/o2/78/583378/1/52419073.wtclobby.jpg

Can you also explain to me how your solid concrete core withstood the 3' sway the towers sometimes had without cracking or losing any of it's structural integrity?

The high tensile steel rebar provided slightly better flexibility. Here is reabr standing after the concrete was blown off.

3" REBAR ON 4' CENTERS

High strength concrete reinforced with that rebar cast with a minimal thickness has a decent amount of flexibility, the proportions of the tower demanded resilency (not totally rigid) with rigidity while supplying large resistence to lateral loads from loaded, flexing steel. The steel took the load and the concrete kept the steel aliigned without undue dimensional deflection from the loads present.

Very tough/strong structure.

http://algoxy.com/conc/core.html

 

[Gamolon]

204 x 204 inside perimeter, 80 x 120 core, inside, 2 foot thick at the top, 12 long axis walls at base, 17 short axis walls at base.

Long axis lobby

120+34(wall2 x 17)=154-204 =50/2=25 lobby width.

Below I would guess is WTC 2 looking south on the east side of the core in the afternoon.

Observe the proportion of the mezzanine that wraps to the right core end!!
Scale in brain. Very small by comparison.

http://misheli.image.pbase.com/o2/78/583378/1/52419073.wtclobby.jpg




The high tensile steel rebar provided slightly better flexibility. Here is reabr standing after the concrete was blown off.

3" REBAR ON 4' CENTERS

High strength concrete reinforced with that rebar cast with a minimal thickness has a decent amount of flexibility, the proportions of the tower demanded resilency (not totally rigid) with rigidity while supplying large resistence to lateral loads from loaded, flexing steel. The steel took the load and the concrete kept the steel aliigned without undue dimensional deflection from the loads present.

Very tough/strong structure.

http://algoxy.com/conc/core.html

Ok, so I understand. The short axis wall at the base is 12' thick at the base and the long access walls are 17' thick at the base.

By your account, the elevators are INSIDE the core.

This puts the elevator doors almost flush with the inside of your concrete core walls correct?

I'll use the long axis wall for my argument, which is 12' thick at the base as you claim. If that is the case, then there would have to be a 12' corridor (opening) cut or formed within the 12' concrete core wall for folks to walk through to get to each of the elevator doors, yes?

So, my question to you is, should there be a 12' long corridor from the outside wall of the lobby, through the concrete core wall you propose, leading to the elevator doors?

There would have to be these corridors THROUGH the concrete wall on each floor also. These corridors would diminish in length because of the taper you say occur in the core walls.

So please answer my question.

 

[Gamolon]

High strength concrete reinforced with that rebar cast with a minimal thickness has a decent amount of flexibility, the proportions of the tower demanded resilency (not totally rigid) with rigidity while supplying large resistence to lateral loads from loaded, flexing steel. The steel took the load and the concrete kept the steel aliigned without undue dimensional deflection from the loads present.

Very tough/strong structure.

http://algoxy.com/conc/core.html

Let me get this straight. You're claiming that a 2' thick, HIGH STRENGTH concrete wall with 3" diameter rebar is able to "sway" 3' without the concrete cracking or failing?

 

[babazaroni]

Let me get this straight. You're claiming that a 2' thick, HIGH STRENGTH concrete wall with 3" diameter rebar is able to "sway" 3' without the concrete cracking or failing?

Gamolon, these questions have been asked many times in this thread.

Why are you repeating them?

 

[Gamolon]

Gamolon, these questions have been asked many times in this thread.

Why are you repeating them?

He's saying that the elevators were inside his concrete core. This puts the elevator doors almost flush with the inside of the concrete core wall. He is claiming that the wall is 12' thick. There has to be a corridor or cutout THROUGH the concrete to get to each of the elevators.

If what he is claiming is true, then any photo of the elevators should show a 12' long corridor passing from the lobby wall, through the concrete core, to the elevator doors. Does anyone have a photo of the lobby elevators?

If the photos show the elevator doors to be recessed into the wall like normal elevator doors (about 1'), then his core cannot exist.

Am I explaining this correct?

 

[Overman]

LOL @ Christophera'a pathetic existance.

 

[Gamolon]

The high tensile steel rebar provided slightly better flexibility. Here is reabr standing after the concrete was blown off.

3" REBAR ON 4' CENTERS

How do you know that that picture is showing 3" rebar on 4' centers?

Please explain using the picture only as reference.

How do you know that picture is showing the concrete core?

Please use the picture only for reference.

I want you to see where I'm coming from. I didn't have the luxury of seeing the ghostumentary you claim existed, so all I have to go on is the picture you show and your word that the information you have obtained came from the PBS special.

 

[Jennie C.]

Gamolon, these questions have been asked many times in this thread.

Why are you repeating them?

Because he's new to the thread. And, in fact, I don't remember anyone's talking about the elevators. The people who rode them must have had some DRINK ME, since the shaft was only 2' x 2' by the time it got to the top floor.

 

[Big Al]

the shaft was only 2' x 2' by the time it got to the top floor.

Hmmm... that buggers up the 3" REBAR ON 4' CENTERS then. Unless there was a single piece of this chunky explosive-coated rebar sticking up through a hole in the middle of the elevator like a sliding lap-dancers' pole.

Perhaps also the mythical mockumentary had a 20-minute section about how all visitors to the top floor of the WTC towers had to sign a non-disclosure agreement or face a $20,000 fine and ten years in jail for blabbing about the concrete core instead of the official steel core.

 

[Christophera]

Christophera,

I could easily post that same picture and claim it was a steel core covered in paper mache. That picture alone proves nothing. You need corresponding evidence to back up what you claim is in that picture.

How come there are no pictures, movies, drawings, or eyewitness testimony from the folks on the site to corroborate what you are claiming?

There are many people who know about the concrete core, they just do not know the core is an issue.

1. I have yet to see pictures of a wooden frame for the concrete core anywhere?

The interior box columns, (anotated image)

http://algoxy.com/psych/images/core.corner.arrow.col.jpg

Were the supports for the outer wood forms. The inner form was a breakdown steel form. The perimeter walls could only progress 7 floors over the top of the concrete core because cranes could pull hard enough laterally while lifting to damage the tower.

2. I have yet to see the availability or existence of 3" diameter rebar.

Put in a 20 million dollar order for some and see how long it takes to make it available.

3. I have yet to see a clear picture of the core you claim existed.

This picture is plenty clear within the process of elimination to show steel reinforced concrete.

http://amanzafar.no-ip.com/WTC/wtc41.JPG

now, if you don't want to consider it, that is another matter. Wherein reasonably you would be required to produce a similar type image type/quality to support the supposed invisisteel core columns.

4. Nowhere, in any footage taken of the construction of the towers, do I see or hear mention of a concrete core.
5. Your picture of the two towers showing the sun shining through from a distance shows no solid core. THE SUN SHINES THROUGH the building. You can see separations between what could be the elevator shafts.

You forgot the hallways, that is what the sun is shining through.

6. You claim to see 3" diameter rebar from a picture taken from 7500' away. Impossible! There is no way that a human being can identify an object 3" in diameter from 7500'. What your telling me is that I could take that picture of the "spire", walk up to any structural field engineer, ask him what he sees, and he would definitely say "3" diameter rebar"? No way. As a matter of fact, I'm going to do just that. I'll see what answers I get. You must be GI Joe with the Eagle Eye.

So, ............... you are saying we cannot see what we see and that what we know doesn't matter. Below we know that is about a 24 inch wide box columns called the spire.

http://home.comcast.net/~jeffrey.king2/wsb/media/56016/site1074.jpg

Above is an interior box column which 24 (best count) ringed the core.

http://algoxy.com/psych/images/interiorboxcolumnsarrow.jpg]

The vertical steel in the center is much smaller and is elevator guide rail support steel. The reactangular shapes of columns and beans can be seen and compared to the framework of below the spire above.

Heres the back of the same object.

http://algoxy.com/psych/images/shearspirewall.jpg

Then there is the rebar, which is so fine the camera does not resolve some of it. I work as a surveyor and can sometimes see pvc pipe with a 2.5 inch diameter at 7500 feet. Those are optimum conditions and there are many of them overlapping.

http://home.comcast.net/~jeffrey.king2/spire_dust-3.jpg

7. I have not seen any drawings showing concrete core.

Well I haven't seen any core plans at all, none for steel and none for concrete. But I did notice that nobody including FEMA has ever seen the plans.

http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/evidence/blueprints.html

And above, the mayor took the cities plans and hid them in his warehouse 3 months after 9-11.

Am I correct in saying that the only evidence you have to back up your pictures is the supposed PBS documentary you claim you saw?

By no means. The very fact I can interpret images consistently proves that I saw the documentary and interpret the images correctly. We certainly notice you have no plans AND no pictures and no consistency.

Is that how you supposedly know that they used 3" diameter rebar and constructed a concrete core? Or do you have other proof that backs up what your saying?

Of course there is more support for the concrete core. The scan of the Oxford encyclopedia of Technology and Inovation that was published in 1992. The source has been removed showing academia's complicity.

http://algoxy.com/psych/images/oxfordarchcore.jpg

Here it was done again, a recent 404.

http://www.unc.edu/courses/2001fall/plan/006e/001/engineering/index.html

I looked all over the web for some hint of that documentary. You know what I found? Posts from you asking if anyone had also seen it. That's it. Are you telling me that the government wiped any mention of this documentary from the entire internet?

Why would it be mentioned on the internet by many people? Do you think todays 9-11 people were tuned in to construction documentaries 16 years ago? Is there a reason for those who know about the documentary to immediately start posting on the web about the concrete core? Do they know that reason?

In summation, the only proof you have are a few distant, blurry pictures and a ghostumentary you claim you saw? Are you asking us to take your word that this PBS show actually aired/existed? Wow. That's pretty ballsy of you.

Wel you posted no evidence whatsoever and I've just posted tons, so I guess your balls are bigger.

BTW, I saw a documentary on the twin towers also. They used balsa wood and staples. Funny though. The government must have gotten rid of it.

Stupid NWO.

The balsa wood and staples is your argument, mine is concrete.

http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/8232/wtcsl8.jpg
http://algoxy.com/psych/images/corewallspirearrows.gif

 

[Christophera]

Ok, so I understand. The short axis wall at the base is 12' thick at the base and the long access walls are 17' thick at the base.

By your account, the elevators are INSIDE the core.

This puts the elevator doors almost flush with the inside of your concrete core walls correct?

I'll use the long axis wall for my argument, which is 12' thick at the base as you claim. If that is the case, then there would have to be a 12' corridor (opening) cut or formed within the 12' concrete core wall for folks to walk through to get to each of the elevator doors, yes?

The elevators were only accessed from the inside hallways.

On WTC 1 there was only one hallway per floor. The next floor up the hallway went perpendicular. Above the 75th there were 2 per floor crossing the core each way.

This image shows one side of a hallway opening penetrating the long axis wall of the core wall of WTC 2 which had 2 hallways in each direction per floor.

http://algoxy.com/psych/images/core.corner.arrow.col.jpg

 

[A W Smith]

The elevators were only accessed from the inside hallways.

On WTC 1 there was only one hallway per floor. The next floor up the hallway went perpendicular. Above the 75th there were 2 per floor crossing the core each way.

This image shows one side of a hallway opening penetrating the long axis wall of the core wall of WTC 2 which had 2 hallways in each direction per floor.

http://algoxy.com/psych/images/core.corner.arrow.col.jpg

Chris no they weren't. I rode those elevators. I KNOW . I accessed them from the exterior of the core in the lobby. NOT through a central hallway. The elevators were recessed at a maximum maybe 20 inches from the face of the marble to the face of the door itself in the lobby.. if even that. And the photo you show above the mezzanine is the outside perimeter NOT the core. notice the chamfer in the corner. Chris I have been in those buildings. You haven't even been on the east coast all your life. get professional help.

 

[Christophera]

Chris no they weren't. I rode those elevators. I KNOW . I accessed them from the exterior of the core in the lobby. NOT through a central hallway. The elevators were recessed at a maximum maybe 20 inches from the face of the marble to the face of the door itself in the lobby.

Images show otherwise.

WTC 1 with no openings in the core wall.

http://www.wirednewyork.com/wtc/images/wtc_19aug2000_lobby.jpg

WTC 1 with one opening in the core wall.

http://www.francesdelrio.com/wtc/images/lobby_02.jpg

Above the slight taper of the core wall can be seen.

WTC 2 with two openings in the core wall.

http://www.bobbyshred.com/images/wtcinlobby1.jpg

if even that. And the photo you show above the mezzanine is the outside perimeter NOT the core. notice the chamfer in the corner. Chris I have been in those buildings. You haven't even been on the east coast all your life. get professional help.

The above doesn't make sense. All of the images were interior photos. You better post some images and clarify or Al will be more correct than he intended.

 

[uruk]

Great raw evidence interpretation Chris.

 

[Christophera]

Great raw evidence interpretation Chris.

homer, you're right. My mistake, hadn't awakened yet, not much sleep. What about the other 2 images smith?

 

[Gamolon]

Images show otherwise.

WTC 1 with no openings in the core wall.

http://www.wirednewyork.com/wtc/images/wtc_19aug2000_lobby.jpg

WTC 1 with one opening in the core wall.

http://www.francesdelrio.com/wtc/images/lobby_02.jpg

Above the slight taper of the core wall can be seen.

WTC 2 with two openings in the core wall.

http://www.bobbyshred.com/images/wtcinlobby1.jpg



The above doesn't make sense. All of the images were interior photos. You better post some images and clarify or Al will be more correct than he intended.

Wow!

You cannot be more wrong.

The first picture you post. Count the beams on the left to match the center of the wall on the right. I count about 10. Now look at the drawing at this link:

http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/evid...ocs/page07.jpg

Count the black rectangles (outer beams) from the corner to about the middle. You get about 10 correct? That is a picture of the short axis wall, not the long axis wall with the elevators.

As for your second picture. Same thing. You can also see on the right a small portion of the glass railing that starts to go around the floor, just above the lobby.

You third picture was taken care of by uruk.

 

[Gamolon]

Hmmmm.

Looks like elevators on the outside of the long axis wall to me.

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.dogboy.org/albums/roadshow/1109/images/DSCF0729.JPG&imgrefurl=http://www.dogboy.org/index_old4.html&h=480&w=640&sz=59&hl=en&start=33&tbnid=1s-O4B3GZTwj1M:&tbnh=103&tbnw=137&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dwtc%2Blobby%26start%3D21%26ndsp%3D21%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN