"Evolution isn't science"

Ok sorry but here I am, I know I promised some textbook lies and examples but had a busy day, I had to shovel about 5" of snow from the drive way and sidewalk and then got called into work...if any of you really care.
So lets try and do this another way can we?...How bout we stick to one question or topic at a time because I can't give good answers to all of these questions as fast as they are coming...so can we agree that I will ask a question and listen to answers and I will be willing to discuss or research one at a time. I think we can all agree that going 1 against 30 or so makes it alot easier if we stick to one topic per side...so I will continue with the question about Noah's age or I guess time line of the flood...and my question to all of you is this...I believe that God spoke the world into existance and made his creation in 6 days, can I prove it scientificaly like most of you demand...no. so my question is how do you explain the creation of the universe...scientificaly with no faith, just facts.
 
Here is what I have read about the flood chronology

1) In the 600 hundredth year of Noah (2nd month 10th day) Noah entered the ark.(Ge 7:4,10,11)
2)in the 600th year of Noah(2nd mo. 17th day) the flood began(Ge 7:11)
3)the waters flooded the earth for 150 days(5 30 day months)including the 40 days and nights of rain(Ge 7:12,17,24 and 8:1)
4)in the 600th year of Noah(7th mo. 7th day)the waters began to recede.(Ge 7:24,8:1)
5)the waters later receded to the point that the ark rested on Ararat.(600th year 7th mo. 17th day) (Ge 8:3,4)
6)the waters continued to abate so that the tops of the mountains were visible.(600th year 10th mo. 1st day)(Ge 8:5)
7)forty days later(600th year 11th mo. 10th day) Noah sent out a raven and a dove(Ge 8:6) over the next 14 days Noah sent out two more doves(Ge 8:10,12) In all this took 61 days or 2mo's. and 1day.
8)By Noah's 601st year on the first mo. and first day the water had dried up.(Ge 8:12,13)
9)Noah waited one month and 26 days before he disembarked in the second mo. the 27th day of his 601st year.
FROM BEGINING TO END THE FLOOD LASTED ONE YEAR AND TEN DAYS
 
Fine, you didn't find the text book quotes. Instead you found the text books aren't full of what you claim they are full of.

So, let's just talk about some supposed mythical human living hundreds of years.

Well, since no human lived to even a hundred years until recently, that answers THAT question. Next.

Just because we don't know how all this matter got into space does not mean some mythical being could just speak it into existence. We will continue exploring and try to piece together the fascinating truth. It is way too boring to imagine something "spoke it into being". *snores*

If that answer satisfies you, then fine. Go on and be happy. Why bother with us folks that want to know more? Why are you here if your beliefs are set?

Why is "we don't know yet" not good enough for you? Why do you have to have some belief on how it happened instead of the thirst to find out more? Why is it that we get told it is bad to want to know more? Faith won't help us to survive when this rocks is swallowed up by the sun or smashed to bits by some space rock. We won't survive this rock if we sit on our thumbs and worship some sky daddy and get told that trying to discover how this universe actually works is BAD thing to do since it might contradict what some pea brained chauvenist wrote in some book thousands of years ago.

But, like I said. If your belief satisfies you, then that is your choice. Why bother us here with your beliefs when it's clear we don't share them?

Are you looking to win something? Are you trying to tell us heathens we are all going to hell? Is it your goal in life to spread your message of creation? If so, then don't bother. We've heard it all. It's been beaten dead in this thread. You won't change our minds and "save us".

So, why are you here? Are you willing to admit that?
 
not to mention the problem of predator and prey--the dinosaurs, the scat and the scat cleaners...etc.
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From what I understand everything was vegitarian before the flood...or herbivores(sp?)
 
Fine, you didn't find the text book quotes. Instead you found the text books aren't full of what you claim they are full of.
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No I said I didn't have time...sorry I do have a life...and a busy one at that.
Well, since no human lived to even a hundred years until recently, that answers THAT question. Next.
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can you please give me your source.
Just because we don't know how all this matter got into space does not mean some mythical being could just speak it into existence. We will continue exploring and try to piece together the fascinating truth. It is way too boring to imagine something "spoke it into being". *snores*
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Sorry if my answer bores you but that is what I believe.
Are you looking to win something? Are you trying to tell us heathens we are all going to hell? Is it your goal in life to spread your message of creation? If so, then don't bother. We've heard it all. It's been beaten dead in this thread. You won't change our minds and "save us".
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I believe I answerd this earlier but I think its fair to have both sides represented. Is that a problem? If I don't agree with you must I leave?
earlier I also said I am not here to save souls...because I can't do that.
I just want you to hear my side but you seem to be the close minded one with all the answers.
 
jesus_freak said:
Here is what I have read about the flood chronology

1) In the 600 hundredth year of Noah (2nd month 10th day) Noah entered the ark.(Ge 7:4,10,11)
2)in the 600th year of Noah(2nd mo. 17th day) the flood began(Ge 7:11)
3)the waters flooded the earth for 150 days(5 30 day months)including the 40 days and nights of rain(Ge 7:12,17,24 and 8:1)
4)in the 600th year of Noah(7th mo. 7th day)the waters began to recede.(Ge 7:24,8:1)
5)the waters later receded to the point that the ark rested on Ararat.(600th year 7th mo. 17th day) (Ge 8:3,4)
6)the waters continued to abate so that the tops of the mountains were visible.(600th year 10th mo. 1st day)(Ge 8:5)
7)forty days later(600th year 11th mo. 10th day) Noah sent out a raven and a dove(Ge 8:6) over the next 14 days Noah sent out two more doves(Ge 8:10,12) In all this took 61 days or 2mo's. and 1day.
8)By Noah's 601st year on the first mo. and first day the water had dried up.(Ge 8:12,13)
9)Noah waited one month and 26 days before he disembarked in the second mo. the 27th day of his 601st year.
FROM BEGINING TO END THE FLOOD LASTED ONE YEAR AND TEN DAYS
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Millons of years ago this rock was WARM and most of the land was UNDER water. So what? Then these plants and stuff showed up. Then it cooled for millions of years, and we got this ice age. Bye bye dinos. Hello LAND!

No Noah, no ark, no silly humans for millions of years. Then we get these humans. But they have these puny brains that cannot comprehend that the moon is not some light, just a reflective surface. They find it tough to keep each other from being selfish brutes. They make up stories about a sky daddy that will send you to eternal damnation if you don't be GOOD!

This works for a while. Some of these dullards actually learn how to write, and put what they can into this bible. Cool stories about floods and women wanting to bear their daddy sons. Yeah, that'll keep humans from being immoral butmunches! Works for a few thousand years.

Then we discover how to look at the world with microscopes, and look into the skies with telescopes. Whoa, this Universe, this world is much bigger than we ever imagined.

So we again start asking how we got here. Some puny humans start discovering chemisty, physics, biology, genetics. Fascinating! Thing is, we all have these beliefs about eternal damnation if we dare not just believe what some pea brains wrote in a book! Drat! Now what?

Fight fight, squabble squabble between the naturally curious and the natural believers. How will this chapter of humanity end?


Bah, I can't tell. To me it's such a dumb quibble. To others it's life and death and the end to humanity.

sigh.
 
I was answering a previous question from last night about the contradiction of the time table of the flood.
but...
Millons of years ago this rock was WARM and most of the land was UNDER water. So what? Then these plants and stuff showed up. Then it cooled for millions of years, and we got this ice age. Bye bye dinos. Hello LAND!
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seems to me that you are vary faithfull like...then these plants and trees showed up...sorry but I really do find that way less beleivable than God speaking them into exsistance.
 
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jesus_freak said:
No I said I didn't have time...sorry I do have a life...and a busy one at that.

can you please give me your source.

Sorry if my answer bores you but that is what I believe.

I believe I answerd this earlier but I think its fair to have both sides represented. Is that a problem? If I don't agree with you must I leave?
earlier I also said I am not here to save souls...because I can't do that.
I just want you to hear my side but you seem to be the close minded one with all the answers.
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Yeah, same old same old. I ask for a source, you claim you don't have time. I give you sources, you tell me I'm the close minded one.

Just keep ignoring those quotes and links I wasted MY time on quoting and gathering JUST FOR YOU.

Both sides? You have the bible. I've read it. Why don't YOU read anything else??

Why keep going on and on about Noah? He didn't exist. There have been bazillions of floods all over the this planet all the time, but no ark with every animal species stuffed on it. That's been proven impossible over and over again. Yet we beat the dead horse over and over again? Why? Because we don't BELIEVE YOU yet? Because we don't just believe the bible yet? Because we keep telling you why we don't believe you or the bible, but you don't care- why?

There has been no human that lived over a hundred a few years in the history of this planet. I can show you the fossils. I can show you the sources proving these very facts.
http://www.rand.org/labor/aging/rsi/rsi_papers/2004_finch1.pdf
http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=1557025
The human life span has increased from about an average of 22 years(estimated) 2000 years ago to 44 at the turn of the 20th century. Currently, it is difficult to tell due to the advancement of medicine to the point where the average age increases years it seems. It is somewhere around 82 years on the average. Females live 6-7 years longer than males on the average. http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasci/zoo00/zoo00079.htm
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Where is YOUR source?

It's YOUR turn to show us the remains of one single hominid that lived to even be 150 years old. YOUR TURN. Go on, giddyup. Not the bible, nope, I want your fossil, the one that supposedly lived 600 years before it died.

http://www.rand.org/labor/aging/rsi/rsi_papers/2004_finch1.pdf
 
Hi, jesus_freak. Sorry you got snowed in. (we got some here in Massachusetts too- where are you?)

I'd prefer to get the thread away from discussing religion and towards discussing evolution. No one on the thread is going to convince jesus_freak of anything by attacking the Bible. Instead, I think we should address JF's immense misunderstandings about evolution.

JF- do you understand what evolution actually states? It doesn't state that plants and trees "just showed up"- in fact, what you are addressing is the question of abiogenesis. Abiogenesis is a matter of some scientific debate, though scientists have a certain idea of how it works.

Evolution is about whether, once life existed, species could change, split apart, and become more diverse over time (that's an oversimplification). It doesn't state that organisms "turn into other species," and it doesn't imagine that a monkey could have a human child (that's ridiculous). It suggests, instead, that mutations and natural selection cause small changes that accumulate over many, many generation.

This idea is backed up by an incredible amount of science, and at the very least the archaeological record clearly shows that evolution occured, whether or not natural selection was the driving force.

You wanted an intelligent conversation. Can't we talk about evolution and why you think it's not supported by facts?
 
You've got time to say "I believe" over and over again.

You've got time to get the text book quotes.

I'm waiting.
You wanted an intelligent conversation. Can't we talk about evolution and why you think it's not supported by facts?
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No. He wants to quote the bible and tell us that is why evolution is hooey. He doesn't care how plants colonized the planet, or even the oceans first. He doesn't care that flowering plants and bugs showed up symbiotically at the same time frame on the planet.

He won't read our sources, and he won't do anything but quote the same old creationist site misinformation over and over again.

I bet his computer blocks the Talk Origins site!

These globes depicting earth's history are cool though:

http://jan.ucc.nau.edu/~rcb7/paleogeographic.html
http://jan.ucc.nau.edu/~rcb7/Ear_Camb.jpg

Wonder if JF will let his curiosity get to him, and he'll actually check it out! Bah, but it's all just blasphemy!

I like the Eocene: http://jan.ucc.nau.edu/~rcb7/Eocene.jpg :D

Hey, I'll bet most of us already know why Australia was ovverrun with marsupials when the rest of the planet got colonized by placentals!
 
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jesus_freak said:
I just want you to hear my side but you seem to be the close minded one with all the answers.
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"It's good to have an open mind. Just not so open that your brain falls out." (Richard Feynman)

Just because someone rejects the foolishness you believe in does not mean they have a closed mind. The fact is, you see your mind as being open because you allow anything to enter and accept it as true. When things become complicated and harder to understand, you fall back on the things that require little or no thinking.

I don't tend to see believers as close minded. I see them as weak minded. Unable to put any effort into thinking or reasoning, they parrot the same old rhetoric that was debunked years, decades or even centuries before.

You would fall into this catagory. You are too tired to do what you said you were going to do. You are too busy to do what you were going to do. Blah, blah, blah. The fact is, you do not have the mental strength to focus on what YOU said how can we expect you to have the strength to focus on what WE say?

The most endearing thing about religion and the bible can be summed up in one sentence: "No brains required!"
 
9)Noah waited one month and 26 days before he disembarked in the second mo. the 27th day of his 601st year.
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UNSUPPORTED SPECULATION.

DENIED.

(Oh and well done for making me into a prophet, I knew you'd weasel out of it just the way I'd said you would).
 
Admiral said:
I'd prefer to get the thread away from discussing religion and towards discussing evolution. No one on the thread is going to convince jesus_freak of anything by attacking the Bible. Instead, I think we should address JF's immense misunderstandings about evolution.
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YES! Could we please discuss Science, Mathematics, Medicine and Technology in this forum and religion in ANOTHER forum.. like maybe.. oh, I dunno.. Maybe "Religion and Philosophy?"

I realize it is easier for some of us, and for JF, to argue the legitimacy of the bible, but really THAT IS OFF TOPIC.
 
I'm not too happy when someone comes along and says "if you want to talk to me, talk on my terms and topics and only when I say so." That's, well, unscientific. Popes, pundits, pedants, and other irritating people do that. (j-freak's posts strike me as an ultimatum [or ultimata?], I think; the nudge that Wavicle gave didn't bother me at all).
 
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But Science'n'Stuff ain't in my field of expertise... Well, I'll drop off to the Literature-forum... :D
 
cyborg said:
UNSUPPORTED SPECULATION.

DENIED.

(Oh and well done for making me into a prophet, I knew you'd weasel out of it just the way I'd said you would).
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Keep practicing--the millions could be yours. Of course, with the ever accumulating evidence of creationist weaselers, I'm not sure such prescience would qualify as supernatural. It might be more amazing to scrounge up a creationist who wasn't a weaseler...
 
Ok here is a quick one I found!

What was observed:
In certain parts of England, before the 1850's, the majority of Pepper moths (but not all) were light coloured. (left typica or typical) Then for about 100 years, the melanic (left: carbonaria, dark coloured morph) numbers of the moth rose to become the majority and the typica became few in number. Presently the frequency of the melanic is decreasing. This change is one of the most famous proofs of evolution used this century and is in virtually every school textbook. This change certainly does not demonstrate evolution (change between kinds) because we have the same cross fertile moth before and after. We have the numbers of dark and light moths change, not their physiology or genetics. For example, rabbits, bears, dogs, cats and rodents of the same breed come in black and white variation. Polar bears and grizzlies are a single "kind" (able to cross breed) with two different colour fur living in two very different habitats with different physical structures, claws, fur type, the blubber lining and other physical characteristics that make them slightly different from each other. This difference is not evolution, but variation within one kind of animal. While minor anotominal differences clearly exist between black bears and grizzlies and polar bears, they are cross fertile. When a child has a breeding pair of rabbits that are both black and white spotted, a typical litter of 8 will have 6 that resemble the parents and one all-black, and one all-white rabbit. This too is not evolution. We are dealing with skin, fur and eye colour variables in all these. In the end this is all the Pepper Moth demonstrates. Genetic variability that has always been present in Pepper Moths to produce the typica and melanic variations with every possible shade in between! So Next time your professor brings up the pepper moth as proof of evolution remember this: moths, bears and rabbits!
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jesus_freak said:
Ok here is my response. I BELIEVE IT IS TRUE! do you believe that slavery back then was different than say a few hundred years ago?
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So you condone slavery ?

Nope I am just saying scientifically proven lies
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If they are scientifically proven then why would the theory continue to be used, eh ?

so how do you believe the earth was formed?
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Not a matter of belief.

My stance and argument is that the Bible is 100% true and to be taken litteral.
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Which parts ? Two of each animal or seven ? Which of the two creation stories is correct ? Since you believe the thing is inerrant, I assume you've read all of it.

The result was zero possibility! - Wistar Institute, 1966
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Mayhap you should stop living forty years in the past.
 
Hi, jesus_freak. Sorry you got snowed in. (we got some here in Massachusetts too- where are you?)
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Minnesota
Evolution is about whether, once life existed
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I think one of my major problems is this...how did life come into existance...according to evolution some where down the line non living things had to evolve into life no matter how simple.
You wanted an intelligent conversation. Can't we talk about evolution and why you think it's not supported by facts?
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yes PLEASE! there are so many questions that I have heard no rational answers for...like non living becoming living, the evolution of the heart or eyes, what evolved first our muscles, skeleton,lungs,nose,brain,eyes,why would we lose our tails, from as far as I know there are no transitional fossils that are proven true.
 
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