Athens rocket attack - already called as a false flag.

[skepticalcriticalguy]

the only people willing to hurt are the evil conspirators (be they zionist, NWO, illuminati, owl-worshippers, neocons or reptoids)

You guys do know that not all people who believe that there are serious evil-doers in the world's governments believe in all the crap you just listed. Right? (The grey between the black and the white).

 

[skepticalcriticalguy]

Canada - A wholey-owned subsidiary of the United States of America (LLC).

Which might be a wholly-owned subsidiary of the UK.

 

[T.A.M.]

lol...all of which are wholly owned subsidaries of the NWO.

TAM

 

[defaultdotxbe]

You guys do know that not all people who believe that there are serious evil-doers in the world's governments believe in all the crap you just listed. Right? (The grey between the black and the white).

thats what i used to think too, but by far the most vocal members of any conspiracy group see in only black and white

 

[T.A.M.]

SCG:

Clearly you are right, there is grey. There is grey here as well. All of us Debunkers are not BUSH fans, in fact if you took a poll, you would likely find BUSH backers in the minority here.

I am fully aware that there are evil doers, conspirators in the world. I know many of them are in our backyard.

You misunderstand the motives of most debunkers I think. I think you misunderstand why most of us disbelieve the "inside job" theory.

Beyond the extreme unlikelihood that such a huge, wide spread, multipronged attack could be kept secret within an admin. that cant keep the lid on a derranged pediphile within their ranks, there is the issue of proof.

You can speculate, guess, assume, believe what you like, but for me, without substantial solid proof, I refuse to be sucked into the paranoia.

In the end, it comes down to who you believe, who you trust, what you trust.

TAM

 

[jhunter1163]

I think that making a CT out of this, when a revolutionary group has already claimed responsibility, will not be a piece of baklava. But those CTists are nothing if not resourceful. They may prove me wrong yet...

 

[Brainache]

America Bashing An Australian Perspective.

There is a lot of America bashing that goes on over here, I have been guilty of it myself from time to time. I have personally met very few USians and those that I have met have all been thoroughly nice people. But I think the main reason why people feel the need to denigrate the US is because of its cultural dominance. And that it is not the best of your culture that gets exported.

You can't walk anywhere in Sydney without seing a McDonalds or a Pizza Hut or Burger King. You can't turn on your TV without seeing US Cop shows or ads for US companies/products. You can't go to the cinema without being at least surrounded by Hollywood hype. You can't buy a newspaper or magazine without seeing articles about Paris Hilton/Donald Trump/GWB/Oprah/whoever.

Now I'm not saying that the US has intentionally set out to force it's culture on us via some kind of imperialist agenda, only that it is such a productive place that we are defenseless against it.

Imagine the reverse: What if every suburb in your home town was dominated by Crocodile Pie shops or Pavlova Pantries? If every show on TV featured mostly Aussie actors using their real accents talking about Wollongong and Oodnadatta and all the ads were for Holdens, Akubras and Meat Pies. How about films about Australian Rules Football or Cricket or the political intricacies of Canberra? Wanna pick up a newspaper and read about Kylie Minogue/John Howard/James Packer?

If you had that scenario, I would not be at all surprised if some of you got annoyed at Australia.

Add to all of the above that our current government are total toadies to any whim of the US government and you might understand why many Aussies would rather sneer at Americans than be seen to embrace all the worst of your fine country.

 

[T.A.M.]

Brainache:

Funny you mention the "USA"anizing of the world. I for one feel the reason we see all those American things in our countries, is in fact, because the USA is the ultimate symbol of freedom, independence, and capitalism/commercialism. If anything, the rest of the world is envious of alot of what makes the USA what it is. I have to give credit where it is do. When it comes to personal freedoms, material goods, America is the king. I guess my only gripe, if I had one, is that in the international arena, the USA could stand to act more noble a leader, rather than a brute force, heavy handed soldier.

At this time in history, however, I empathize with their approach, as I liken their present condition as that of a wounded tiger, that now must defend itself.

TAM

 

[Graham2001]

There is a lot of America bashing that goes on over here, I have been guilty of it myself from time to time. I have personally met very few USians and those that I have met have all been thoroughly nice people. But I think the main reason why people feel the need to denigrate the US is because of its cultural dominance. And that it is not the best of your culture that gets exported.

You can't walk anywhere in Sydney without seing a McDonalds or a Pizza Hut or Burger King. You can't turn on your TV without seeing US Cop shows or ads for US companies/products. You can't go to the cinema without being at least surrounded by Hollywood hype. You can't buy a newspaper or magazine without seeing articles about Paris Hilton/Donald Trump/GWB/Oprah/whoever.

Now I'm not saying that the US has intentionally set out to force it's culture on us via some kind of imperialist agenda, only that it is such a productive place that we are defenseless against it.

Imagine the reverse: What if every suburb in your home town was dominated by Crocodile Pie shops or Pavlova Pantries? If every show on TV featured mostly Aussie actors using their real accents talking about Wollongong and Oodnadatta and all the ads were for Holdens, Akubras and Meat Pies. How about films about Australian Rules Football or Cricket or the political intricacies of Canberra? Wanna pick up a newspaper and read about Kylie Minogue/John Howard/James Packer?

If you had that scenario, I would not be at all surprised if some of you got annoyed at Australia.

Add to all of the above that our current government are total toadies to any whim of the US government and you might understand why many Aussies would rather sneer at Americans than be seen to embrace all the worst of your fine country.

I can remember the same feelings circulating from twenty years ago, for years a wall near Fremantle (port city of Perth, Western Australia) had the words "Hawke (Labor PM of Australia 1983-1991) is a puppet, U$)" painted on it. The inscription remained there for at least 17 years.

Before the 11th of September 2001 I thought Anti-Americanism was 'cool', now I'm just furious at 'bumper sticker' activists....

 

[JimBenArm]

I can remember the same feelings circulating from twenty years ago, for years a wall near Fremantle (port city of Perth, Western Australia) had the words "Hawke (Labor PM of Australia 1983-1991) is a puppet, U$)" painted on it. The inscription remained there for at least 17 years.

Before the 11th of September 2001 I thought Anti-Americanism was 'cool', now I'm just furious at 'bumper sticker' activists....

Hey, Fremantle is the port we visited when I was on the USS Guardfish way back in 1980. Fond memories of your fine city. Met a young lady who was in your army, who eventually married a US sailor, and wound up in OUR Navy after that.

Was only there for three days, wish it could have been three years.

 

[athon]

There is a lot of America bashing that goes on over here, I have been guilty of it myself from time to time. I have personally met very few USians and those that I have met have all been thoroughly nice people. But I think the main reason why people feel the need to denigrate the US is because of its cultural dominance. And that it is not the best of your culture that gets exported. *snip*

As a fellow Aussie, and a person who has known a lot of Americans (and count a large number as closest friends), I can only agree with your post to some extent.

The issue of American commercialisation is often denigrated by a lot of Australians, however our capitalistic, materialistic way of life is so similar that I don't think it's something a lot of Aussies take a great deal of notice of, beyond an occasional gripe.

One major difference between American and Australian culture is the 'cutting of the tall poppy' concept; that crowing about your greatness swiftly earns you a place at the bottom of the pack. There's a thin line between being cocky (which is appreciated) and truly stating greatness (which is not). This is something that causes great conflict with those from many Russian cultures, where individual claims of superiority are much more a part of culture.

With catch-cries of freedom, democracy and liberty reflecting what it means to be American, many Australians wonder what the fuss is about. Our history means we take such things for granted, and the laid back attitude means we rarely celebrate the fact our country has these as its ideals too. It's a bit like your poor neighbour getting a job and shouting 'I am great; I now work for a living, and so should all of you' and you think 'Christ, I work too, but you don't hear me shouting about it'.

It's always important to distinguish a cultural value from those who come from a country that is represented by that culture. Just because somebody is American doesn't mean they share all of the values described as being American in nature.

Athon

 

[Calcas]

Brainache and TAM, good posts.

It's always good to get another perspective from someone who isn't automatically anti-American.

I can certainly see your points. As a young man my older sister went to live in Latin America for a year. When she came back, her opinion about our Country was changed forever.

Yes, America is no doubt seen as the "Big Bad Wolf" in many, if not most, of the world.

*Sigh*

I don't have the answer...

 

[Brainache]

Brainache and TAM, good posts.

It's always good to get another perspective from someone who isn't automatically anti-American.

I can certainly see your points. As a young man my older sister went to live in Latin America for a year. When she came back, her opinion about our Country was changed forever.

Yes, America is no doubt seen as the "Big Bad Wolf" in many, if not most, of the world.

*Sigh*

I don't have the answer...

I suppose we could be like the French and pass all kinds of laws to protect our cultural integrity, but who wants to be like the French?

 

[T.A.M.]

All politics aside, I couldn't happen but notice how there are two ways you can read you rline...

As a young man my older sister went to live in Latin America for a year.

I assume you meant, when you were a young man, your sister went away, not that your sister was a young man who went away...lol, these days you never can be sure.

TAM

 

[gtc]

I don't have the answer...

I am not sure that there is an answer, or that one is even necessary.

Australia has absorbed a lot of American culture and commerce, but not all of it and much has been localised. For instance, Taco Bell never took off in Australia and McDonalds serves a burger with beetroot.

Australia also manages to export its culture and 'personalities'. Be it as locations in films such as Superman Returns or as stars like Hugh Jackman and Nicole Kidman.

Out of interest, do Texans worry that their culture is being dominated by NY and California?

 

[Dog Town]

Out of interest, do Texans worry that their culture is being dominated by NY and California?

Take a look at the Yanks pitching staff, and soon to be. We are the "world" culture. Everyone wants into this party, known as the US! 40 million illegals can't be wrong!
They calls us Ugly Americans for a reason. Fcuk'em...jelousy is a bi*ch!

 

[pchams]

This T.A.M. guy is obviously a plant. He's no Canadian eh Wildcat?
Even GW Bush spells Canuck with one 'N'.
Plus, I bet he doesn't speak any French.

 

[Trifikas]

I could be wrong, but I really think that American Culture is a pull technology, not a push (with a few exceptions). We see a similar interest in other cultures in America. Currently, there's a big interest in Japanese culture right now in America. Not long ago you could not find anything except 'high-tech' items, now in bookstores there are shelves of Manga and Video stores have rows of Anime. Gwen Stefani is showing off parts of Japanese culture in her videos. If there wasn't a market for it, you wouldn't be seeing it. Same with other countries with American culture - It's available, and if you want it, you can get it. Enough people seemed to want it, so there is a lot of it in other countries. Same here - enough people want it, and there's pockets of interest in various locations.

I wonder if the "Melting pot" that is our culture has something to do with the perception that it doesn't happen in America. There's already so may intrests represented in our culture that even when a spike of interest does it, it's just added as one more part of it rather than being viewed as "Taking over" the culture. In countries that are more single-cultured, a spike of Americanism is magnified, if that makes sense.

There are certainly a few exceptions - I think Coca-Cola did a push from America, and Pokemon is a push from Japan.

 

[gumboot]

Funny you mention American Bashing. It happens quite often here up north. My observations on the argument (not my own opinions), are as follows.

Frankly it's just big-country syndrome.

In my experience here, there is not difference in the attitude of anyone coming from the "big" countries. Canada, America, China... they're either really nice, or exceedingly arrogant.

In big countries (especially old ones) you learn all about your OWN country and a lot less about everyone else. In contrast in a little place like NZ, we really have no choice but to learn about other countries.

In addition, the USA is the current world Super Power. Like any country they look after their own interest over and above anyone else's (as you'd expect) the only difference is a global superpower has interests all over the globe. So naturally no one likes a super power. No one liked the British Empire and no one liked the Romans either. Nothing new here.

-Gumboot

 

[gumboot]

I could be wrong, but I really think that American Culture is a pull technology, not a push (with a few exceptions). We see a similar interest in other cultures in America. Currently, there's a big interest in Japanese culture right now in America.

This is what I have seen. Just like the British, the American identity has been so successful because it assimilates everyone else.

You can see it with American cinema, for example. German Expressionism was absorbed directly into American cinema, as was French New Wave.

Often people see it as the USA projecting its culture overseas and crushing every other culture. But that's wrong. The US Culture is slowly absorbing every other culture.

The British did EXACTLY the same thing. Just look at the English language for evidence.

-Gumboot