10 story hole in WTC 7

[Christopher7]

Did various kind of severe damage to the building exist?

Yes, but not the 10 story gouge

So? How would you expect it could be known?

Damage to core columns and the large debris that did the damage could have been reported by the firefighters who were clearing the last people out of the building. None was reported. The only mention of large debris was "no heavy debris was observed in the lobby area"

Did the fire dept. abandon the building and make a safety zone around it?

Yes

No one can justifiably claim that WTC 7 collapsed due to debris damage/fire with any certainty

This statement is wrong. We can indeed claim that, with good certainty, since:

There was debris and fire damage to the building. In particular, the fire damage was extensive. The condition and apparant stability of the building was observed to deteriorate progressively while the fires burned.

Hans

I disagree with the 'certainty'

 

[Quad4_72]

I disagree with the 'certainty'

And the experts disagree with you. I for one, am going to go with what the experts say.

 

[Christopher7]

The "Physical Evadence" (was that a Freudian slip, my friend?) was an enormous effin pile of rubble.

Which was quickly removed before it could be inspected to find out what caused the collapse.

Am I blind or stupid? The NIST report has a photo which shows a huge honkin' hole in WTC7. Have I missed somewher where that photo was shown to be irrelevant, fake, or from a different building?

That huge honkin' hole is the SW corner

There are no pictures of the area where the 10 story gouge was supposed to be [middle of the south side]

 

[Dog Town]

Is there a "moron" smiley around the joint? I can't find one but, not to be disrespectful, it sure would save a lot of keystrokes in threads like this one.

Not a smiley, but would this be something, you would be intereted in?

Says it all don't it?
Hi Sarns, how's the asylum?

DT

 

[Christopher7]

I'm honestly trying to understand Chris's point, but so far I haven't gotten it. Chris, you're saying that since there are various reports of a huge hole, but there are slight differences in the details about the extent of the gouge, that therefore this gouge did not even exist? Is that what you're saying? Really?

The difference between

"steel ripped out from between the 3rd and the 6th floors" [Chief Fellini]

and

"middle 1/4 to 1/3 the width was gouged out from floor 10 to the ground"

is not a slight difference

Chief Fellini was in charge of operations at West and Vesy. Part of his job was to asses the damage to WTC 7.
He described the damage to the south side as above. He sited this damage and the fires as his reasons for believing WTC 7 would collapse.
If there was a 10 story guoge, he would have said so.

You keep asking whether we believe that there was a 10-story gouge, 1/4 to 1/3 the width of the building. I believe that yes, there was a huge gouge. Is that enough of an answer?

Not quite.
Which one?
Steel ripped out between 3rd & 6th floors
or
Gouge, floor 10 to the ground
?
There is a BIG difference

 

[LashL]

Breaking news: After an event that spanned several hours, witness accounts from different vantage points, at different times, and by those with differing opportunities to observe... are NOT identical.

Stop the presses.

 

[Christopher7]

wow, so you have some fire chiefs that said it was going to collapse and some that said it was not. Fine. So we all know the building did collapse, and you are contending that the fire chiefs who said it wasn't going to collapse were the correct ones, just to make your little paranoid consipracy world work???

OTers often quote the firefighters saying WTC 7 is going to collapse as if it were proof
I'm just saying that not all the chiefs thought WTC 7 was going to collapse

 

[beachnut]

OTers often quote the firefighters saying WTC 7 is going to collapse as if it were proof
I'm just saying that not all the chiefs thought WTC 7 was going to collapse

Someone has to be wrong; like the CT guys.

CT guys proved wrong for 5 years; most before they even opened their mouth.

 

[Dog Town]

Breaking news: After an event that spanned several hours, witness accounts from different vantage points, at different times, and by those with differing opportunities to observe... are NOT identical.

Stop the presses.

You might wanna holster that logic, with this one sheriff, CTers are immune.

 

[Christopher7]

Like most people here, I watched the collapses live. Like, I imagine, many other people, I was surprised to see the towers collapse. This was based on nothing in particular - and given the circumstances, most of us were unlikely to be thinking very closely.

We're talking about WTC 7, not the Trade Towers
I didn't question the 'official story' until i saw the video of WTC 7 for the first time, nearly 4 years after 9-11-01
The question here is about the 10 story gouge 1/4 to 1/3 the width of the south face of WTC 7
Do you believe Chief Fellini or the unnamed source of the 10 story gouge ?

 

[beachnut]

The difference between

"steel ripped out from between the 3rd and the 6th floors" [Chief Fellini]

and

"middle 1/4 to 1/3 the width was gouged out from floor 10 to the ground"

is not a slight difference

Chief Fellini was in charge of operations at West and Vesy. Part of his job was to asses the damage to WTC 7.
He described the damage to the south side as above. He sited this damage and the fires as his reasons for believing WTC 7 would collapse.
If there was a 10 story guoge, he would have said so.


Not quite.
Which one?
Steel ripped out between 3rd & 6th floors
or
Gouge, floor 10 to the ground
?
There is a BIG difference

So let me put it together for you.

Steel ripped out at the 3rd floor, and steel was poking out on the 6th floor, and a big hole form the 10th floor to the ground. And like steel was poking out on the 6th and 3rd floor. Did I tell you about the big hole and all the steel sticking out on the 3rd and 6th floor. And it appears from the fires and damage WTC7 could fail, or fall, or collapse, we should get back, order everyone back. I heard your big 10 story hole but I will not repeat it since I am too busy looking for our lost brothers! Get in my face again and I will knock you lights out! Get back and get to work, put some water on 5 and 6 so we can work over here and make sure the fire does not spread to the other buildings.

Back to work. Did I tell you about the steel poking out and a big hole...

 

[Oliver]

We're talking about WTC 7, not the Trade Towers
I didn't question the 'official story' until i saw the video of WTC 7 for the first time, nearly 4 years after 9-11-01
The question here is about the 10 story gouge 1/4 to 1/3 the width of the south face of WTC 7
Do you believe Chief Fellini or the unnamed source of the 10 story gouge ?

I also saw the >full< collapse of WTC7 the first time
when i searched for footage about it on the internet.
The collapse started with the collapse of the penthouse.

Now with a little bit of logic this incident tells me that
the "Penthouse fall" made a LOT of damage to WTC7.

Now how many failing columns do you esteem to make
the penthouse on top fall down?

 

[LashL]

You might wanna holster that logic, with this one sheriff, CTers are immune.

And I also forgot to add:


Film at 11! one!1!oneone!11elevengetitelevenohnoooes, apparently

sheesh - what does it take to get tinhatters to give a nod to reality?

 

[Christopher7]

It has been pointed out time and again that the diagram shows the 'possible' extent of damage not the extent of damage

I have pointed that out time and time again too. So stop telling me what i have known for a long time.

and that there is other evidence besides the one statement to suggest that a large piece of debris hit the very area in question, namely near columns 69, 72 and 75 or columns 79, 80 and/or 81.

The other evidence is the elevator cars that landed in the hallway north of the elevator shaft. That's nearly 3/4 of the way through the building.
For debris to penatrate WTC 7 that far after traveling over 300', it would have to have been shot out of a cannon.

 

[uk_dave]

....it would have to have been shot out of a cannon.

And you have evidence for the cannon hypothesis?

Or are you just using 'common sense'?

 

[Skibum]

For debris to penatrate WTC 7 that far after traveling over 300', it would have to have been shot out of a cannon.

Certainly you have done the calculations to back this statement up, would you care to provide them, Please.

 

[Christopher7]

And the experts disagree with you. I for one, am going to go with what the experts say.

NIST had experts investigate and could only say that the debris damage/fire hypothesis "appears possible"
Who are these experts who say it is a certainty ?

 

[Oliver]

NIST had experts investigate and could only say that the debris damage/fire hypothesis "appears possible"
Who are these experts who say it is a certainty ?

Can we agree that the Penthouse collapse initiated
the global collapse or are you thinking they blew up
the Penthouse and then the rest?

 

[Christopher7]

And you have evidence for the cannon hypothesis?

Or are you just using 'common sense'?

Do you think that large debris form WTC 1 penatrated 3/4 of the way through WTC 7 ?

 

[Oliver]

NIST had experts investigate and could only say that the debris damage/fire hypothesis "appears possible"
Who are these experts who say it is a certainty ?

Who are the schoolboys who spout their illiteracy
fairytales all over the net?