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AA77 FDR Data, Explained

Very true Gravy, many people DID see a large airliner.

If you are thinking I subscribe to missile theories you are much mistaken.

My opinion is that data provided to me from the authorities noes not correllate to the physical evidence (in terms of the flightpath).

What I am trying to do now is find out why. Not by watching you-tube but by really looking at the raw data.
I was under the impression that raw data is a phrase that commanded a level of respect in this forum.

If I can re-package the data; I will consider releasing it after we have finished. No promises though; the decode isnt done yet!
 
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Snowygrouch said:
Second it took months and months because I only GOT the data frames about a week ago.

My contact ONLY gave me the files on strict condition of absolute anonymity. Her exact words were that her career in the FDR industry would be over if it became industry knowledge that her company tampered with such data. They do work for AAirlines, what do you think would happen to that contract if it became public that they are diddling with AA FDR data for members of the public.....

I`m not for a minuite suggesting its evidence of conspiracy; simply commercial reality in such a niche industry.

Fourth I`m not doing the number crunching so I cannot answer questions relating to the exac procedure followed or the surmountable difficulties we are encountering.

When I`m any the wiser about how many frames we have I`ll post it.

All the engineering units and their accuracies are included in the data frame layout files provided.

As for me "making it out to be harder than it is", well sorry thats because I`m actually trying to do it properly. If it was easy I`d have done it last week. Also if I was so inclined I could just have made up the whole thing and claimed to have done the decode months ago and post any old nonsense. I`m interested in the raw facts of what occured and discussing how easy it OUGHT to be does not accellerate proceedings!

Will I provide the files to anyone else???...

Possibly after we have finished our analysis. Certainly not before.

C.
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You have already said way to much about your source (hope you are just smoking it up some or your source is going to be hot) . Hope this is not like the post to Chris from Leslie Robertson and how the core is concrete.

The more you pre announce your stuff the more fishy it seems. Good luck
 
the fdr correllates with the flight path and the debris path....what is there to question?
 
You'll know when you see the header that proves the FDR actually came from a cruise missile!
 
The CSV file and physical evidence are in perfect agreement. The animation has a small and easily identifiable error that is quite simple to correct. The only noteworthy conclusion, in my opinion, would be if the raw data doesn't reconcile with the CSV file. Then we'd have something with some meat on the bones.

I have a feeling, however, they are going to rely on the infalliable-super-animation-producing-machine that they believe exists, and thus by showing the animation is wrong, that means it's an inside job. If that's all they got, they have nothing. We've already established the animation has a mistake, and we've already established what it is, and shown when the simple correction is made, it is in perfect agreement. So I truly hope they have something beyond that.
 
Gravy said:
Many people already saw what happened, Snowy. On September 11, 2001, to be exact, when flight 77 hit the Pentagon, right in front of them. In the real world.
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Yes.

But maybe Snowy's analysis will convince *certain* people by a method that seems important to them, and that could be valuable in its own way.

We shall see.
 
Snowygrouch said:
I was under the impression that raw data is a phrase that commanded a level of respect in this forum.
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Generally speaking, it is. It needs to be relevant to the claim presented, and it needs to be obtained from a credible source.

Snowygrouch said:
If I can re-package the data; I will consider releasing it after we have finished. No promises though; the decode isnt done yet!
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Of course, once you re-package the data it is no longer raw. If your looking to gain the respect of the forum, you'd be better off releasing the raw data. It will be taken much more seriously.
 
Im not interested in debating this as it will simply degenerate into the inevitable mud slinging that always occurs.

The flightpath is several degrees off, the angle of attack is incorrect and the altitude is incorrect.

(taken purely from the animation)

If it comes up ok in the FDR file then its clearly just a fuss over nothing. If not....then.. there are only more questions!

I posted my contact all my research on this to try to "get a bite" and she looked it over and told me it was certainly worthy of further investigation. Hence why she helped me. What the outcome is....who knows! I dont and freely admit as such.

Discussion is pointless at this stage as until the decode is done I have no futher information at hand than that currently available on the net.

The repackaging refers to the data frames NOT the fdr file. So does not effect the outcome; no numerical values would be changed.

Once the decode is done we can chat.
 
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Snowygrouch said:
Im not interested in debating this as it will simply degenerate into the inevitable mud slinging that always occurs.

The flightpath is several degrees off, the angle of attack is incorrect and the altitude is incorrect.

(taken purely from the animation)

If it comes up ok in the FDR file then its clearly just a fuss over nothing. If not....then.. there are only more questions!

Discussion is pointless at this stage as until the decode is done I have no futher information at hand than that currently available on the net.

The repackaging refers to the data frames NOT the fdr file. So does not effect the outcome; no numerical values would be changed.

Once the decode is done we can chat.
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Let me know if you need to borrow my secret decoder ring (issued by the NWO itself).

CRAP...that was supposed to be a secret.

I mean...what decoder ring.
 
Anti-sophist said:
Yes, the person who gave you those data frames career is at stake. That is unquestioned. I have no problems with keeping your source secret.

That being said, the experiment must be repeatable for it to have any value. That means you will need to release all the data you have. We will dismiss as nonsense any extraordinary findings that we cannot repeat. In order to repeat them, we will need the full data. I urge you to repackage it as best as possible to obfuscate the source.

I also promise that I will repeat any extraordinary findings you happen to come across to verify them. I don't know if you consider that a good or a bad thing.

I've been promised "reports" from "you guys" (pilotsfor911truth, et al.) before and been dissapointed every time. I tend to get the same repackaged nonsense on youtube with newer spookier music. If you plan on actually bringing something new to the table, I'll be excited. Hopefully you can deliver where UnderTow and JDX have failed.
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As he said, if you do not, after your examination/analysis, and interpretation of the data, provide all of the same data for a second independent examination/analysis/interpretation, then what ever you find will be unreproducable garbage...EOS.

If, however, after you have had your time with the data, you submit ALL OF IT, UNALTERED, to a 3rd party to corroborate your results, than it will infact have tremendously strong merit and power. Failure to do so, not only makes your findings useless, but will sully your reputation in any scientific community as someone of suspect integrity.

Snowygrouch said:
Very true Gravy, many people DID see a large airliner.

If you are thinking I subscribe to missile theories you are much mistaken.

My opinion is that data provided to me from the authorities noes not correllate to the physical evidence (in terms of the flightpath).

What I am trying to do now is find out why. Not by watching you-tube but by really looking at the raw data.
I was under the impression that raw data is a phrase that commanded a level of respect in this forum.

If I can re-package the data; I will consider releasing it after we have finished. No promises though; the decode isnt done yet!
Click to expand...

If you provide the COMPLETE, UNALTERED DATA after you are finished, than I will have a great deal of respect for you and your approach. If you do not, I will consider your findings meaningless, and with an obvious agenda...that I CAN PROMISE.

TAM:)
 
Snowygrouch said:
Im not interested in debating this as it will simply degenerate into the inevitable mud slinging that always occurs.

The flightpath is several degrees off, the angle of attack is incorrect and the altitude is incorrect.

(taken purely from the animation)

If it comes up ok in the FDR file then its clearly just a fuss over nothing. If not....then.. there are only more questions!

I posted my contact all my research on this to try to "get a bite" and she looked it over and told me it was certainly worthy of further investigation. Hence why she helped me. What the outcome is....who knows! I dont and freely admit as such.

Discussion is pointless at this stage as until the decode is done I have no futher information at hand than that currently available on the net.

The repackaging refers to the data frames NOT the fdr file. So does not effect the outcome; no numerical values would be changed.
Once the decode is done we can chat.
Click to expand...


No there is no angle of attack AOA problems, there is no heading problem; the raw data lines up with real life.

The animation does not line up with the fake ground. Wow. Why does animation of real data not like up with a fake world of graphics?

There is data not recorded; if you have no information on why up to 2 to 5 seconds are missing; they you are just a CT guy wasting a lot of time.

Do not take this wrong, go do the work, I would love to see the RADAR ALT data if you have that part. The RADAR DATA and the heading can possible line up the flight path to ground elevations to help see how a 4 second frame was never recorded to the chip.

But if you are just doing this to prove a CT theory you are messed up and have ignored physical evidence.

The only thing the FDR data can do is prove CT dolts wrong or supply doubt for their feeble minds of mush.
 
Fact: flight 77, carrying real passengers, crew, and hijackers, hit the Pentagon. In the real world. There are many threads providing evidence of that in this forum if you're interested, Snowy. The remains of all but one passenger were recovered at the scene and positively identified.

879045a299cd53d93.jpg

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If the FDR data contain errors about the plane's position, isn't it the job of professionals to try to determine the source of those errors? That sounds like devilishly difficult work that would require a great deal of expertise. Are you competent to do that type of analysis, or is it your goal to simply get the data out there and hope that professionals investigate any anomalies (which would require them having access to all data)?
 
Snowygrouch said:
Very true Gravy, many people DID see a large airliner.

If you are thinking I subscribe to missile theories you are much mistaken.

My opinion is that data provided to me from the authorities noes not correllate to the physical evidence (in terms of the flightpath).

What I am trying to do now is find out why. Not by watching you-tube but by really looking at the raw data.
I was under the impression that raw data is a phrase that commanded a level of respect in this forum.

If I can re-package the data; I will consider releasing it after we have finished. No promises though; the decode isnt done yet!
Click to expand...

You are right about youtube. There is a real idiot, johndoeXLC who thinks the plane never hit the Pentagon. He sounds just like you.

johndoeXLC, puts comments showing how dumb he is. Have you seen his junk. There are few idiots with the same junk out there.

"The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists, and will persist "President Eisenhower 1961
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Ironic you quote the very thing that JDX is. The disastrous rise of what he thinks is power! He is a "censor NAZI". You work with the censor NAZI. Like I said if you can not figure out if a data frame was not recorded you are wasting your time.

So you have an insider in Boeing? Can they tell you the if a 4 second frame is missing; which would leave about 5 seconds of data not recorded due to impact.

Funny when you go to get your Pulitzer Prize with your BBC reporters, who gets the money. You did not really want people to buy DVDs from JDX? Do you? His stuff is junk. Ask any pilot.

But good luck; you are not the first to try and make claims that never come true.

Pigs could fly; can they?
 
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Will I provide the files to anyone else???...

Possibly after we have finished our analysis. Certainly not before.
Click to expand...

Very scientific of you Lyte, or is that One Doodoo?
 
Snowygrouch said:
My contact ONLY gave me the files on strict condition of absolute anonymity. Her exact words were that her career in the FDR industry would be over if it became industry knowledge that her company tampered with such data. They do work for AAirlines, what do you think would happen to that contract if it became public that they are diddling with AA FDR data for members of the public.....
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Hello Snowygrouch, I've looked at the Flight 77 FDR data as well, and I also have some background in aircraft air data sensor analysis.

I don't mean to imply that there's something amiss, but you can understand that we get a little nervous when we see remarks like the bolded bit above, even before data is produced. Perhaps it was merely a figure of speech?

If it turns out there is something weird in your data, you do understand that the next step will be to eliminate mistakes as a possible source of the anomaly? We would want to understand the complete chain of custody, and be able to reproduce the entire process of data analysis. This would probably involve some serious professionals and a bit of real money, but if it turns out to be that important, I think it could be done. But regardless, your anonymous source, who understandably doesn't want to be viewed as misusing company resources, is only good enough for a preliminary assessment. Real names and real references are a necessary part of the due diligence required for a rigorous analysis.

In any case, I'll be interested to see what you can find. Having looked at the processed FDR data as well as the sensor limitations, comparing to the Pentagon BPR, I'm personally well satisfied with the official story, and it will take a considerable revelation -- one that is inconsistent with the processed FDR results we've already seen -- to change my mind. Either it's there, or it isn't.
 
Snowygrouch.

You will have to excuse me if this post comes across as rather abrasive but maybe you will do me the honour of explaining exactly what you are playing at.

See I am not a software engineer nor am I able to decode data, raw or in any other form from FDR’s. Basically I am Joe Public, you know the people you are trying to convince you are onto the scoop of the century and herein lays the problem.

See the story you have come up with is that you apparently have a secret contact who is feeding you and you fellow "investigators" information. This information is so secret that you and only you can process it and if you pass it on to a third party it will give the game away and exposes your source. Am I correct so far?

So what you are now doing, for the good of mankind of course, is working feverishly to decode it all and then you will release it all to the general Public (us). If I am also to follow your BS ,opps story,once the original files have been massaged , opps sorry again, decoded to fit your preconceived ides of what you believe has happened you will presumably make a DVD and flog it.

Forgive me for not believing a word you say pal, I'm sure you are quiet a decent chap, but, your story so far, if I am correct is one of make believe and absolute nonsense but hey who am I ? just the guy you are trying to convince.

Equally so, have you actually been in touch with anybody that was involved in the dreadful event. You know,Flight 77 being hijacked and slammed into the side of the Pentagon and told them? Don't you think you have a responsibility to inform the families of all those involved? Or is it better to get it all on DVD first?
 
It also begs the question that if the source for the raw data wishes to remain anonymous, how is this supposed to happen once the 'smoking gun' of the decoded raw data is made public? People are going to want to know the provenance of the raw data and the intrepid investigators are going to have to include this if they have any hope of convincing anyone that their decoded data came from the real source material.

If we follow the implications of this possible expose still further we are also left to wonder:

1. If the FDR did come from flight 77 and was recovered from the pentagon, then that means flight 77 did hit the pentagon.

2. If the decoded data shows that flight 77 took a different path to that stated in the official account then the physical evidence for the official path must have been planted.

3. But if the evidence was planted then the conspirators must have known that flight 77 wouldn't be taking the path they have claimed for it, otherwise there would be no reason to fake the evidence, just let it happen.

4. So if the fdr from flight 77 shows the plane crashing into the building via a different path to that which the faked evidence was intended to show it took, why not fake the fdr to show the fake path to match with the fake evidence?
 
Anti-sophist said:
The CSV file and physical evidence are in perfect agreement. The animation has a small and easily identifiable error that is quite simple to correct.
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That's the fact that someone overlooked the magnetic deviation when they made the animation. But the other question about the FDR data is the altitude, which reads higher than you would expect in the final moments, and, wasn't the latitude-longitude data off quite a bit, like 20 miles?

Sounds like Snowy is expecting to find discrepancies between the raw data and the released CSV file. I doubt that will happen, but if he can find that the radar altimeter data exists and (importantly) can properly decode it, that should give everyone an important data set.

And I agree with what everyone else has told you, Snowy. If you find that your first-pass decoding of the data doesn't match the released info in some way, the next step is to release your data for more eyes to look for what you might have missed. There are a multitude of calibrations and corrections that I can imagine properly interpreting the data would require.
 
Gravy said:
Many people already saw what happened, Snowy. On September 11, 2001, to be exact, when flight 77 hit the Pentagon, right in front of them. In the real world.
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Maybe Snowygrouch needs to read a thing or two from our good USAF LTC friend, who so kindly posted here in the fall about his own experiences.

I can't seem to find the link.

DR
 
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