Fire, steel, and 911.

[StephenColbert] I Called It! [/StephenColbert]

Still no response to those of us who took his "bet". Still no indications of where we might find any of the evidence we asked for. Just more standard CT rambling about the PNAC.

I called it!

ETA: Okay, I may have been premature.

28th Kingdom said:
To all those who actually replied with potential evidence that would make you believe or consider believing the PET...I REALLY appreciate it...that was very gracious of you. I'm just feeling drained right now..but I will go back and address most of it later today or tomorrow.
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Any bets on him remembering to do this "later today or tomorrow", or is this just a pathetic attempt to distract us, in hopes we'll forget about it?

Horatius said:
Oh, and just to note, so you don't think you're putting one over on us ('cause you're so smart TeeHee!), I'll point out that you've completely ignored the several posters who answered your "bet" that we couldn't name any evidence that could convince us of your PET hypothesis.

The fact that you've chosen to ignore us can only mean that you don't have any of the evidence we asked for. Prove me wrong*.





*Oh heck, who am I kidding? He'll ignore this just like everything else......
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28th Kingdom said:
To all those who actually replied with potential evidence that would make you believe or consider believing the PET...I REALLY appreciate it...that was very gracious of you. I'm just feeling drained right now..but I will go back and address most of it later today or tomorrow.
Click to expand...

bring facts and evidence and stop taking massive amounts of drugs

just kidding, hurry back. n
 
28th Kingdom said:
Are these the faces of innocent men:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F30M1bVzZK4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ov8nJ1lOa8
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Form of:

Argumentum ad misericordiam (argument or appeal to pity). The English translation pretty much says it all. Example: "Think of all the poor, starving Ethiopian children! How could we be so cruel as not to help them?" The problem with such an argument is that no amount of special pleading can make the impossible possible, the false true, the expensive costless, etc. It is, of course, perfectly legitimate to point out the severity of a problem as part of the justification for adopting a proposed solution. The fallacy comes in when other aspects of the proposed solution (such as whether it is possible, how much it costs, who else might be harmed by adopting the policy) are ignored or responded to only with more impassioned pleas. You should not call your opposition down for committing this fallacy unless they rely on appeals to pity to the exclusion of the other necessary arguments. It is perfectly acceptable to use appeal to pity in order to argue that the benefits of the proposed policy are greater than they might at first appear (and hence capable of justifying larger costs).
http://www.csun.edu/~dgw61315/fallacies.html#Argumentum ad misericordiam
 
28 IQ said:
Okay, so if the government is involved....do you think they would be able to influence the NIST report..since you know the NIST appears to be government affiliated. Yes or No?
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Yes, NIST is "government affiliated," but why would every one of the hundreds of engineers who worked on that report go along with a cover up?

Let me ask it another way - what would it take for you to cover up the mass murder of 3000 fellow citizens for your employer? If you think that every one of the hundreds of people involved have just mousily played along, that does not speak well for your own character. It implies that you would go along with it also.
 
Are these the faces of innocent men:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F30M1bVzZK4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ov8nJ1lOa8

Just yes or No, it. Is this how innocent men act? I know your answers are mere opinions...but I want to hear them. I know this doesn't prove anything...but, l want to hear an answer from your gut - you know...without HAVING TO CONSULT someone else's words, opinions or reports before knowing what to think. Remember, these guys have NOTHING to do with 9/11 - is this how they should respond to these questions? If I accused one of you of committing Jeffrey Dahmer's crimes...is this how you would react? Or would you be more like, "ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR F'N MIND!"
 
CurtC said:
Let me ask it another way - what would it take for you to cover up the mass murder of 3000 fellow citizens for your employer? If you think that every one of the hundreds of people involved have just mousily played along, that does not speak well for your own character. It implies that you would go along with it also.
Click to expand...

Based on his posting record, I'd say a steady paycheck and pension benefits.
 
28th Kingdom said:
Are these the faces of innocent men:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F30M1bVzZK4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ov8nJ1lOa8

Just yes or No, it. Is this how innocent men act? I know your answers are mere opinions...but I want to hear them. I know this doesn't prove anything...but, l want to hear an answer from your gut - you know...without HAVING TO CONSULT someone else's words, opinions or reports before knowing what to think. Remember, these guys have NOTHING to do with 9/11 - is this how they should respond to these questions? If I accused one of you of committing Jeffrey Dahmer's crimes...is this how you would react? Or would you be more like, "ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR F'N MIND!"
Click to expand...

Stop trying to make qualitative judgements of other peoples' actions based upon what your reactions would be in a given situation.
 
Horatius said:
I'd say that's an innocent man showing remarkable self control when being rudely interrupted by a bunch of ignorant CTist losers.
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Really? If he's 1000% innocent...wouldn't he be more like, "Sir, please sit down...that's utter nonsense." The Guy (Kristol) is utterly embarrassed and ashamed, because he knows that everyone in the room knows what he is.


Another question: LOTS (I use the word - lots - because I'm not about to debate the numbers) of completely innocent woman and children have been killed in Iraq due to the military invasion - you know Shock and Awe stuff... does that make Bush a murderer? Yes or no, will do.
 
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28th Kingdom said:
Really? If he's 1000% innocent...wouldn't he be more like, "Sir, please sit down...that's utter nonsense." The Guy (Kristol) is utterly embarrassed and ashamed, because he knows that everyone in the room knows what he is.
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Post hoc, ergo propter hoc
This Latin term means "after this, therefore because of this" and the fallacy involves mistaking a subsequent event for a consequent event. For example:
I lost my lucky hat and my team started a losing streak. When I found it again their fortunes improved. It just goes to show that my lucky hat works after all.​
There are plenty of other sporting superstitions like this one we could look at. Although one concern here is that if the lucky hat didn't "work" we might attribute the run of losses to something else, the main issue runs thus: after I found my lucky hat the losing streak stopped; therefore, it was because of it that the team started doing well again—post hoc, ergo propter hoc. We have two subsequent events—the finding of the hat and the ending of the losing streak—that are assumed to be consequent, the former causing the latter. There are plenty of other ways to account for events, though: perhaps the team was missing several key players, or playing away from home? The objection is to note that it need not follow that two subsequent events mean that one caused the other.
Take another example:
The government increased the amount of benefits it provides and the level of immigration went up. This proves that people come here for the free hand-outs.​
The argument here is that people are motivated to migrate to one country rather than another because of the assistance it can provide them with; the fact that the number of immigrants went up after the amount was increased is supposed to prove this theory. If we set it out clearly, we can see what is going on:
P1: Benefit levels went up;
P2: Immigration levels then increased;
C: Therefore, immigrants chose which country to migrate to on the basis of benefit levels.​
In fact, we would expect the matter to be far more complex, with potential migrants—both those who chose to leave their home country and those who are forced to by circumstances—to weigh up many factors. What is missing, then, is another premise—something like:
P3: All other factors remained the same.​
If we take P1 and P2 as given, P3 still requires a strong argument of its own, especially since—on first inspection—it's hard to see how such dynamic factors could remain constant long enough to make this assessment.
In general, the picture we have is as follows:
P: B follows A;
C: Therefore, A caused B.​
We could replace A and B with all manner of instances to see how plainly this argument fails; we would need that crucial additional premise that all other factors remained the same if we want to talk about causation. Since it assumes too much, this fallacy is usually called one of presumption.
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http://www.galilean-library.org/int16.html#post_hoc_ergo_propter_hoc
 
Arkan_Wolfshade said:
Stop trying to make qualitative judgements of other peoples' actions based upon what your reactions would be in a given situation.
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Seems to be a technique taken from the Apollo HBs play book. Those astronauts look SO guilty, you know. ;)
 
28th Kingdom said:
Are these the faces of innocent men:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F30M1bVzZK4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ov8nJ1lOa8

Just yes or No, it. Is this how innocent men act? I know your answers are mere opinions...but I want to hear them. I know this doesn't prove anything...but, l want to hear an answer from your gut - you know...without HAVING TO CONSULT someone else's words, opinions or reports before knowing what to think. Remember, these guys have NOTHING to do with 9/11 - is this how they should respond to these questions? If I accused one of you of committing Jeffrey Dahmer's crimes...is this how you would react? Or would you be more like, "ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR F'N MIND!"
Click to expand...

When it's obvious that a large part of his audience is there just to get a reaction from him? When he knows he's being filmed? When he knows this record will be used to vilify him no matter what he does?

Have you seen anything of what Alex Jones does with his "interviews"? He makes great use of anyone who reacts with anger, implying that they're angry because they've been caught out, not becasue they've been confronted by a bunch of rude jerks.

So he's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. If I were him, I'd try to do just the same - keep my cool and let these rude CTist make themselves look like fools.

The fact that you can't see they're fools says a lot about you.
 
28th Kingdom said:
Another question: LOTS (I use the word - lots - because I'm not about to debate the numbers) of completely innocent woman and children have been killed in Iraq due to the military invasion - you know Shock and Awe stuff... does that make Bush a murderer? Yes or no, will do.
Click to expand...

Lots of innocent German women and children died during WWII. Does that make Churchill a murderer?

If this is your standard for murder, then everyone who's ever lead a nation to war is guilty.

ETA: Have you stopped beating your wife? Please answer yes or no.
 
Hora...are you a communist or socialist? This question applies to everyone else as well...how many communists are here. Please stand up. I have never seen so many people who are completely and utterly infatuated with government and authority. Most people despise big government power and influence....but most of you seem to revel in it. Did I hit it on the head, or what?
 
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28th Kingdom said:
Hora...are you a communist or socialist? This question applies to everyone else as well...how many communists are here. Please stand up.
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Hey, how did you know my nickname was "Hora"? They gave me that name on the streets when I was 15 and ran away out here to Hollywood and I um - well I sold - um, something on Santa Monica Boulevard. But anyway I digress.

I'm a communist and a socialist. In the circus, my great-grandfather's cousin used to get her beard trimmed by a guy whose friend ran the calliope on which repairs were made by - you guessed it - the father of the paperboy who delivered The People's Free Press to the venerable Karl Marx.

So it's really a family thing, actually I'm not into politics but if I was I'd prefer Starfleet Command.
 
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