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This was RAPE!

Darat said:
However in this case the article states that initial request was to "strip search" the girl so the stakes started high.
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The 20/20 investigation I just watched makes it clear that's not quite true.

He starts out slow - one piece of clothing at a time. This gradual scale is like boiling a lobster: it fools people the same way. After 2 hours of imprisonment, doing idiot things like jumping jacks, and getting spanked for failure to obey, that girl would have done anything. No blame on her - except for the initial failure to understand her own rights & limits.

As Roadtoad said, "dumb kid" is redundant.

The manager is not mentally retarded; she is morally defective. She saw a girl crying - her own employee - and simply didn't care about that as much as she cared about looking good to the authorities. That's a moral problem, not a mental one.

I would like to point out that the janitor is the one who stopped it all, simply by asserting "Something is wrong." Once he required the manager to actually check facts, the whole scam fell apart.

It only took one skeptic to ask a question. Nobody else ever thought to question the premises. Much like people grow up believing that 90% of the planet will go to eternal torment and yet God is loving. They simply don't question the premises.

The more I think about this the person with the most responsibility is Summers,
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Heck ya. I can even understand Nix; I mean, he was acting rationally. Spank a naked 18 year old and get a blow job, free of charge? Where's the downside in that? :D (the latest info says he got off with probation, which I find almost as disturbing as the orginal incident. This SOB should be doing 20 years.)

But Summers put the most trivial of her own concerns (looking good with her invisible bosses) above terrible injury to someone under her authority. This woman belongs in prison. It is the only environment our society offers that is appropriate for people like her.
 
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i used to work at a money wiring company. we would process transactions, and people would try to defraud us all the time. they would pretend they were stores and try to get us to send money for them. It worked a suprising amount of the time, despite having it drilled into our heads not to do it EVER without the correct identification prodedures. In order to pretend you are a store you have to con the store out of 3 seperate numbers by pretending to be us. Everything you get from us in your store says "we will NEVER call asking for your id, store, and pin number". It says it on the border of the money sending software that some stores have. People still give up the numbers and people in the call center still send money for scammers. ive been close to doing some of the things scammers told me to- you really have to pay attention to what is going on. Some very smart people I know did send money for people who were defrauding the company. Most people will go under the assumption that the people calling you are who they say they are, especially when they have seemingly no reason to lie.
 
I just read an update to this story the other day (the first time I've read it at all, actually). Turns out that the caller was a police acamedy drop-out turned prison guard in Florida, using calling cards to make these same types of calls to fast food places all over the south for something like 10 years. People fell for it quite often, it seems.

They put the perp on trial and he was unanimously found not guilty by the jury. Apparently there was a bit of reasonable doubt that he was the one who actually made the calls, as opposed to simply buying the calling cards, which he was identified on Wal-Mart video footage as doing. Hopefully he gets what is coming to him for one of the other calls.
 
^^thats pretty spooky... he really seems to have a hard on for authority. I wonder if he treats prisoners ethically? If he has a sexual violence issue? seems like the type...

its weird to think that so many people would have done the exact same thing if instructed to.
 
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Yahzi said:
...(the latest info says he got off with probation, which I find almost as disturbing as the orginal incident. This SOB should be doing 20 years.)

But Summers put the most trivial of her own concerns (looking good with her invisible bosses) above terrible injury to someone under her authority. This woman belongs in prison. It is the only environment our society offers that is appropriate for people like her.
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I watched the show last night. I found it very disturbing. I've not read the thread so forgive my ignorance. I think this is along the lines of the Milligram Experiment. I can understand it to a point but boy does it make me angry. I especially was disgusted at the insistence of Summers that the girl was not upset or crying. She was too indifferent to her plight after the fact. I suspect that had something to do with her attorney. I wish the girl would sue Summers and her piece of trash fiancée.
 
nails said:
^^thats pretty spooky... he really seems to have a hard on for authority. I wonder if he treats prisoners ethically?
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Prison guards seem to be one of the most corrupt corners of public service in the U.S., if you ask me. I don't doubt that the perp is just as dirty, if not dirtier, in terms of his prison guard responsibilities. There is so much power given to these individuals, many of whom are basically uneducated, with so little oversight, and there is so much reward for violating the rules (money for smuggling, among others), that it is almost unavoidable in the way that the system is set up. Sorry, I digress. It's a pet peve of mine.
 
Pescado said:
Prison guards seem to be one of the most corrupt corners of public service in the U.S., if you ask me. I don't doubt that the perp is just as dirty, if not dirtier, in terms of his prison guard responsibilities. There is so much power given to these individuals, many of whom are basically uneducated, with so little oversight, and there is so much reward for violating the rules (money for smuggling, among others), that it is almost unavoidable in the way that the system is set up. Sorry, I digress. It's a pet peve of mine.
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Which brings us to another study one that is related in more ways than one to the Milligram experiment.

Stanford prison experiment
 
Pescado said:
Prison guards seem to be one of the most corrupt corners of public service in the U.S., if you ask me. I don't doubt that the perp is just as dirty, if not dirtier, in terms of his prison guard responsibilities. There is so much power given to these individuals, many of whom are basically uneducated, with so little oversight, and there is so much reward for violating the rules (money for smuggling, among others), that it is almost unavoidable in the way that the system is set up. Sorry, I digress. It's a pet peve of mine.
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I have a similar pet peeve. I think the old - “If you stare into the Abyss long enough the Abyss stares back at you.”
 
Hell, all I can add is that a job at MacDonald's looks a lot more attractive than I would have believed possible!
 
Pescado said:
Prison guards seem to be one of the most corrupt corners of public service in the U.S., if you ask me. I don't doubt that the perp is just as dirty, if not dirtier, in terms of his prison guard responsibilities. There is so much power given to these individuals, many of whom are basically uneducated, with so little oversight, and there is so much reward for violating the rules (money for smuggling, among others), that it is almost unavoidable in the way that the system is set up. Sorry, I digress. It's a pet peve of mine.
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This comment is full of the elitism I wish wasn't on this board.

Prison guards fulfill a necessary role in modern society. They work hard, put in long hours, and do a job the rest of us are too good to do for a wage that will barely put them in the ranks of the middle class. Pescado, would you care to put up a convicted murderer in your guest bedroom for the rest of his life, watch him 24 hours a day so we won't need prison guards?

I saw the 20 20 show last night also, and have nothing but sympathy for the young lady victimized by the caller and everyone else at that McDonald's, but to paint all prison guards with this brush is just wrong.

I'm not a prison guard, but I've known some, and one ex-guard told me his story; he was a young guard that got involved in a prison riot. He and the guards around him had to battle their way to a secure doorway. In the process he hit a number of attackers with his nightstick. He barely got out alive, and would never go back to that job. He was sued by the prisoners he fought off and lost.(the state of Texas paid the bill)
 
Esperdome said:
This comment is full of the elitism I wish wasn't on this board.

Prison guards fulfill a necessary role in modern society. They work hard, put in long hours, and do a job the rest of us are too good to do for a wage that will barely put them in the ranks of the middle class. Pescado, would you care to put up a convicted murderer in your guest bedroom for the rest of his life, watch him 24 hours a day so we won't need prison guards?

I saw the 20 20 show last night also, and have nothing but sympathy for the young lady victimized by the caller and everyone else at that McDonald's, but to paint all prison guards with this brush is just wrong.

I'm not a prison guard, but I've known some, and one ex-guard told me his story; he was a young guard that got involved in a prison riot. He and the guards around him had to battle their way to a secure doorway. In the process he hit a number of attackers with his nightstick. He barely got out alive, and would never go back to that job. He was sued by the prisoners he fought off and lost.(the state of Texas paid the bill)
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Do you deny that prison guard corruption exists? Seems like it must be pretty widespread if there are drugs in every prison, which I believe there are.

I don't see where I ever said that we should get rid of prisons or guards, or that all prison guards are bad, let alone where I said that prisoners should board up with the general population; are you kidding me? I said that prison guards may be the most corrupt public service sector in the U.S., and I stand by the statement.

Who else has an opportunity to be corrupt with such a small chance for consequences on a daily basis? Who's going to say something about it, a prisoner? First of all, other prisoners would kill him for going to the authorities with his concern. Secondly, the authorities would probably tell him to get lost, since they will trust a guard's word over an inmate's word. It's not that prison guards are somehow inferior people, but that they are put in situations that nobody else is put in, with so little oversight.

Being a prison guard is a very tough job. I couldn't do it. That doesn't mean that the way the current system is set up doesn't allow for bad behavior without consequences. Any job that has a very low chance of consequences for bad behavior is going to have bad behavior on the job. Prison guards aren't an exception just because they are tough cookies, or just because you know a guy who used to be a good prison guard.

Elitism? I don't think so. I just calls 'em like I sees 'em.
 
Pescado said:
Do you deny that prison guard corruption exists? Seems like it must be pretty widespread if there are drugs in every prison, which I believe there are.
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No, I'm sure corruption exists there as well as everywhere in our society.

Pescado said:
I don't see where I ever said that we should get rid of prisons or guards, or that all prison guards are bad, let alone where I said that prisoners should board up with the general population; are you kidding me? I said that prison guards may be the most corrupt public service sector in the U.S., and I stand by the statement.
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I didn't mean to suggest you were for housing prisoners in private homes, I was alluding to the difficult job prison guards face and the consequences of not having them and prisons around.

Pescado said:
Who else has an opportunity to be corrupt with such a small chance for consequences on a daily basis? Who's going to say something about it, a prisoner? First of all, other prisoners would kill him for going to the authorities with his concern. Secondly, the authorities would probably tell him to get lost, since they will trust a guard's word over an inmate's word. It's not that prison guards are somehow inferior people, but that they are put in situations that nobody else is put in, with so little oversight.
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I don't think the opportunity to be corrupt is unique to prison guards. Badly run, poorly managed systems speak to a failure further up the chain to managers and wardens. Average guards are left to make do with the situation they are given. And all prisons aren't alike. The better ones are better IMO because of better management. Same guards, better management.

Pescado said:
Being a prison guard is a very tough job. I couldn't do it. That doesn't mean that the way the current system is set up doesn't allow for bad behavior without consequences. Any job that has a very low chance of consequences for bad behavior is going to have bad behavior on the job. Prison guards aren't an exception just because they are tough cookies, or just because you know a guy who used to be a good prison guard.

Elitism? I don't think so. I just calls 'em like I sees 'em.
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I agree the current prison system in the US is full of problems. I just don't lay blame on the people in the trenches. This is one bad apple, show me evidence that prison guards are more perverse and corrupt than the general population. I don't think they are.
 
senorpogo said:
I have a similar pet peeve. I think the old - “If you stare into the Abyss long enough the Abyss stares back at you.”
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From Serenity:
Jayne - Ain't logical. Cuttin' on his own face, rapin' and murdering - Hell, I'll kill a man in a fair fight... or if I think he's gonna start a fair fight, or if he bothers me, or if there's a woman, or if I'm gettin' paid - mostly only when I'm gettin' paid. But these Reavers... last ten years they show up like the bogeyman from stories. Eating people alive? Where's that get fun?
Kaylee - Shepherd Book said they was men who just reached the edge of space, saw a vasty nothingness, and went bibbledy over it.
Jayne - Oh, hell, i've been to the edge. Just looked like... more space.
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Esperdome said:
I agree the current prison system in the US is full of problems. I just don't lay blame on the people in the trenches. This is one bad apple, show me evidence that prison guards are more perverse and corrupt than the general population. I don't think they are.
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Or, as has been said before, when you work with filth all day, it's hard to stay clean.

Like rubbish collectors and cleaners, these guys do the jobs nobody else wants.
 
Esperdome said:
I don't think the opportunity to be corrupt is unique to prison guards. Badly run, poorly managed systems speak to a failure further up the chain to managers and wardens. Average guards are left to make do with the situation they are given. And all prisons aren't alike. The better ones are better IMO because of better management. Same guards, better management.
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More involved management and more oversight would definitely curb the problem a lot, in my opinion. Hopefully technology will help make the system more transparent with increased use of video surveillance, GPS, and whatever else might come next. Although adding more transparency to the system will only be a side-effect.

I agree the current prison system in the US is full of problems. I just don't lay blame on the people in the trenches. This is one bad apple, show me evidence that prison guards are more perverse and corrupt than the general population. I don't think they are.
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I wasn't trying to put the blame for a bad prison system on the guards. It's really the other way around; the guards can be bad because their management allow them to be, knowingly or otherwise. Not that every guard takes the bait, but some do. Also, like I said in my last post, I don't think prison guards are any better or worse than any other member of society (for all I know), but put in a unique situation with high rewards for little risk.
 
No problem, Pescado. I think we are closer to being on the same page on this all the time. I just saw a snowball starting against prison guards starting with your post, and may have overreacted. We've already derailed this thread enough.

I'm wondering what others think of the victim's 200 million dollar lawsuit against McDonald's. Should she win? Is it worth 200mil? I know all evidence isn't available to us, but do you have a feel for it?

I think she should win a reduced amount depending on company complacency of the problem.

And TA, I here you about being around nasty can lead you to being nasty, but I work all the time with nasties no one else wants to deal with. the worse it is, the more precautions we take. I can't see why corrections officers couldn't do the same.
 
Esperdome said:
And TA, I here you about being around nasty can lead you to being nasty, but I work all the time with nasties no one else wants to deal with. the worse it is, the more precautions we take. I can't see why corrections officers couldn't do the same.
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Did you follow my link to the experiment?

In case anyone does watch the video let me say upfront that there is some controversy as to the significance and some questions about the methodology.
 
RandFan said:
Did you follow my link to the experiment?

In case anyone does watch the video let me say upfront that there is some controversy as to the significance and some questions about the methodology.
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I did. To me, it applies well to the McDonald's case(in the behavior of the manager and others). But I wouldn't apply this to prison guards in general.

Please note, the experiment wasn't allowed for some reason to use real jail cells by real guards. And the only abuser in the McDonald's case who was a prison guard was the caller.
 
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