• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Has Anyone Seen A Realistice Explanation For Free Fall Of The Towers?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Better hurry up before your raw evidence goes bad. I hope you're keeping it refrigerated in the meantime. It would be awful if you served it and everyone got salmonella.

Better than getting gonorrhea or aids from misrepresented evidence.

Real evidence of the raw type accurately interpreted showing a steel reinforced cast concrete core published by a sincere American seeking to protect the US Constitution and American people.

http://algoxy.com/conc/core.html
 
Last edited:
Real evidence of the raw type accurately interpreted showing a steel reinfocd cast concrete core publiched by a sincere American seeking to protect the US Constitution and American people.

Truly, Chris, you will be a legend in your own time.
 
What is Chris' evidence of a concrete core?

1) A video in 1990 - one that no one else (except, allegedly, his ex-wife) has ever seen, one that does not exist in the archive records at PBS or at KCET, one that does not even exist in the entire catalogue of TV-Guide for the Santa Barbara area for the year of 1990.

2) An encyclopedia entry written by a person who had, at that point, never even been to the towers, and was writing on assumption, not fact.

3) A fuzzy photograph that shows nothing definite - only an indistinct, rounded shape in the dust cloud that could be concrete, or collapsing debris, or what was left of the steel-core and bedrock-walled core, partially covered with debris from above (explaining the apparent rounded shape)...

4) Deductive reasoning (since no 1300-ft long steel sections were visible during the collapse, they must not have existed). --Which is faulty, considering no 1300-ft long 'MASSIVE BOX COLUMNS' or elevator guide rails were visible, either.

On the other hand, numerous video and photographic evidence shows steel structural columns at the worksite; debris fields show clear evidence of steel support columns, but an insufficient amount of concrete; the most accurate construction plans that are available mention steel, not concrete; and a video documentary from 1983 clearly indicates steel, not concrete.

Why does concrete matter? Because Chris erroneously believes that the steel-reinforced concrete included one additional element: plastic explosives, applied directly to the rebar.

His evidence:

1) the violent collapse pictures showing the ejection of powdery-grey matter at the initiation of collapse - which can be equally accounted for by the presence of drywall, sheetrock, the concrete in the floors themselves, the ash from all that burned office equipment, etc.

2) the apparenty excessive speed of collapse -- which he cannot prove is excessive, nor can he come up with a quantification of what is 'acceptable' versus what is not.

3) 'Total Pulverisation' of the towers - which debris evidence proves is wrong... He equivocates by claiming that observed debris came from the mall, not the towers themselves. But this, too, is wrong.

4) A magazine article in the late 70s which he claims explains the process of returning C4 to slurry state for underwater use - yet he won't divulge what magazine it was, or when he read the article.

Evidence against:

1) Shelf life of plastic explosives under OPTIMAL conditions is only between 15-20 years. He tries to get around this by claiming concrete acted as a better protectant; yet concrete during curing emits heat, is moist, and results in a material which allows more air exchange than cellophane. Further, any such material on the rebar would largely negate one of the purposes of rebar, and such a structure likely would have collapsed under natural stresses long before 2001.

2) Insufficient chemical residue to indicate the existence of plastic explosives, nor of det cord, wiring, or other apparatus.

3) No eyewitnesses over the lifespan of the towers noticed anything odd - considering that wiring for the detonators would have to extend beyond the concrete, and no one ever noticed such wiring.

The only evidence he ever offers in support comes from his own website - owned, operated, and administered by himself from his Isley St. home - and photos which lack clarity and definition, which he also hosts. For all we know, he's doctored those photos. I don't think he has, but he's never offered them in context of the locations he's gotten them from. Meanwhile, he's in flat and open denial of any contraverting evidence, including statements by construction and engineering personnel, photographs of construction, photographs of debris fields, etc. He expounds upon his own 'photographic' memory, but gets details wrong enough to really embarrass himself - if he had any shame, which he doesn't. Why should we trust his memory about concrete cores and magazine articles, when he can't remember the show's name was Ally McBeal, or the age of the mohawk he interviewed, or the station number of KCET, or anything else, really?

His memory is shot - and things he recalls from memory are suspect.

My suggestion to Chris is this: go back to worrying about the available algae contents of your local lakes and rivers. This, at least, is a real problem, with real solutions, and could benefit people. Raving for years on websites has gotten you no where at all, and never will. You're wasting your time here, while the oxygen levels of your home continue to diminish.

My suggestion to all the other participants on this thread: When you feel like replying to Chris, here, just copy and paste this or another of the good summations available, and walk away.
 
3) No eyewitnesses over the lifespan of the towers noticed anything odd - considering that wiring for the detonators would have to extend beyond the concrete, and no one ever noticed such wiring.

Where do you find my claim of such wiring here that is separate from the descriptions of "setting detonators"?

http://algoxy.com/psych/9-11scenario.html

Such does not exist there.

I do describe the detonation systems but they were installed since the new lease on the WTC. And not sitting around where they might be observed.

http://algoxy.com/psych/9-11scenario.html#anchor1209159

There was the powerdown 2 days before 9-11 where WTC 2 was without security for 38 hours before the demo.

http://algoxy.com/psych/9-11scenario.html#anchor1212053

There is the "delays and paths" section where the delays are explained.

http://algoxy.com/psych/9-11scenario.html#anchor1232703

Each floor panel was separate and was an explosive circuit. Each had to be connected to each other by det cord or with a delay circuit wired into the security phone circuits.

You are misrepresenting my information most likely because you haven't examined it. There must be an attitude that interferes with your perceptions.

There is also a serious deficit of knowledge about what high explosive events look like and what delay systems are capable of.

Here is a video of firefighters discussing what they perceived as "detonations".

http://algoxy.com/psych/images/discussion_in_firehouse.mpg
 
From the writings of Christophera: "The red line shows a vertical valley formed in the debris because of the 2 precision, exploding planes of the core walls with perpendicular alignments (see above alignments). The debris waves are moving perpendicularly away from each other so the valley forms. The yellow line shows the adjacent ridge to the valley or the far reaches, of the parallel debris wave from the exploding plane."

Gee, and all this time I was thinking that debris would always fall straight down. I'm glad that you educated me that in a simple collapse the debris falls towards the corners so as to create a uniform debris cloud and only when explosives are used are there minima in the debris cloud at the corners of the building.
 
Last edited:
Where do you find my claim of such wiring here that is separate from the descriptions of "setting detonators"?

Such does not exist there.

In fact, there's no coherent description of how the detonators were set or used there.

I do describe the detonation systems but they were installed since the new lease on the WTC. And not sitting around where they might be observed.

There was no time after the new lease to install sufficient detonation systems.

There was the powerdown 2 days before 9-11 where WTC 2 was without security for 38 hours before the demo.

Insufficient time to wire up detonation systems. Definitely insufficient time to conceal the work.

Each floor panel was separate and was an explosive circuit. Each had to be connected to each other by det cord or with a delay circuit wired into the security phone circuits.

Total nonsense. It would never be wired that way - a stray spark or feed from an eroding phone circuit would cause it to detonate.

Structures designed with self-destruct systems as you are attempting to claim this one was have completely independent, protected circuites, isolated from all other power, ground, or telephone feeds.

You are misrepresenting my information most likely because you haven't examined it. There must be an attitude that interferes with your perceptions.

Yes - love of knowledge and a firm grasp of reason... which you don't seem to possess.

I misrepresent nothing - your information is lousy.

There is also a serious deficit of knowledge about what high explosive events look like and what delay systems are capable of.

Used'em. Spent a decade in the military using C4 and other explosives. I've wired buildings, bridges, vehicles, telephone poles, and other things. Blown quite a few of them to smithereens, too.

The collapse of the towers did not look like a high explosive event, Chris. And that is the voice of experience.

Here is a video of firefighters discussing what they perceived as "detonations".

Hearing a 'boom' does not mean explosives were used. If you had any sense, you'd know that.


What is Chris' evidence of a concrete core?

1) A video in 1990 - one that no one else (except, allegedly, his ex-wife) has ever seen, one that does not exist in the archive records at PBS or at KCET, one that does not even exist in the entire catalogue of TV-Guide for the Santa Barbara area for the year of 1990.

2) An encyclopedia entry written by a person who had, at that point, never even been to the towers, and was writing on assumption, not fact.

3) A fuzzy photograph that shows nothing definite - only an indistinct, rounded shape in the dust cloud that could be concrete, or collapsing debris, or what was left of the steel-core and bedrock-walled core, partially covered with debris from above (explaining the apparent rounded shape)...

4) Deductive reasoning (since no 1300-ft long steel sections were visible during the collapse, they must not have existed). --Which is faulty, considering no 1300-ft long 'MASSIVE BOX COLUMNS' or elevator guide rails were visible, either.

On the other hand, numerous video and photographic evidence shows steel structural columns at the worksite; debris fields show clear evidence of steel support columns, but an insufficient amount of concrete; the most accurate construction plans that are available mention steel, not concrete; and a video documentary from 1983 clearly indicates steel, not concrete.

Why does concrete matter? Because Chris erroneously believes that the steel-reinforced concrete included one additional element: plastic explosives, applied directly to the rebar.

His evidence:

1) the violent collapse pictures showing the ejection of powdery-grey matter at the initiation of collapse - which can be equally accounted for by the presence of drywall, sheetrock, the concrete in the floors themselves, the ash from all that burned office equipment, etc.

2) the apparenty excessive speed of collapse -- which he cannot prove is excessive, nor can he come up with a quantification of what is 'acceptable' versus what is not.

3) 'Total Pulverisation' of the towers - which debris evidence proves is wrong... He equivocates by claiming that observed debris came from the mall, not the towers themselves. But this, too, is wrong.

4) A magazine article in the late 70s which he claims explains the process of returning C4 to slurry state for underwater use - yet he won't divulge what magazine it was, or when he read the article.

Evidence against:

1) Shelf life of plastic explosives under OPTIMAL conditions is only between 15-20 years. He tries to get around this by claiming concrete acted as a better protectant; yet concrete during curing emits heat, is moist, and results in a material which allows more air exchange than cellophane. Further, any such material on the rebar would largely negate one of the purposes of rebar, and such a structure likely would have collapsed under natural stresses long before 2001.

2) Insufficient chemical residue to indicate the existence of plastic explosives, nor of det cord, wiring, or other apparatus.

3) No eyewitnesses over the lifespan of the towers noticed anything odd - considering that wiring for the detonators would have to extend beyond the concrete, and no one ever noticed such wiring.

The only evidence he ever offers in support comes from his own website - owned, operated, and administered by himself from his Isley St. home - and photos which lack clarity and definition, which he also hosts. For all we know, he's doctored those photos. I don't think he has, but he's never offered them in context of the locations he's gotten them from. Meanwhile, he's in flat and open denial of any contraverting evidence, including statements by construction and engineering personnel, photographs of construction, photographs of debris fields, etc. He expounds upon his own 'photographic' memory, but gets details wrong enough to really embarrass himself - if he had any shame, which he doesn't. Why should we trust his memory about concrete cores and magazine articles, when he can't remember the show's name was Ally McBeal, or the age of the mohawk he interviewed, or the station number of KCET, or anything else, really?

His memory is shot - and things he recalls from memory are suspect.

My suggestion to Chris is this: go back to worrying about the available algae contents of your local lakes and rivers. This, at least, is a real problem, with real solutions, and could benefit people. Raving for years on websites has gotten you no where at all, and never will. You're wasting your time here, while the oxygen levels of your home continue to diminish.

My suggestion to all the other participants on this thread: When you feel like replying to Chris, here, just copy and paste this or another of the good summations available, and walk away.
 
Yeah, well a building falling down can make plenty of noise. Honestly, were you expecting it to sound like toothpicks or something?

OMG!

Serious distortions there. How did the building stand for 33 years with all the potential fragility you imply?

Almost childish, "Falling down to the ground."

These guys are professionals and they've witnessed controlled demolitions.

http://algoxy.com/psych/images/discussion_in_firehouse.mpg
 
Christophera said:
Where do you find my claim of such wiring here that is separate from the descriptions of "setting detonators"?

Such does not exist there.
In fact, there's no coherent description of how the detonators were set or used there.

I just provided a complete and detailed reply to your unfounded and unsupported contention, here.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=2138919#post2138919

So what is the below? Something you cannot understand it appears.

http://algoxy.com/psych/9-11scenario.html#anchor1232703

Delays and Paths

The floor delays would be on one circuit and the core on another. The ports accessing the rebar in the core walls were on the inside of the core, protected from the blasts of the floors. Floor circuit delays would be set to count at 75 milliseconds with a possible decreasing delay downward for initiations of consecutive floors to the bottom. Concrete core delay paths would set at 300 milliseconds for each 40 foot concrete pour which had at least one inspection port on each 3" vertical rebar to remove the coating and slow the removal of bearing and lateral support, keeping the floors in position while they detonate.


Apparently technical desciptions of process are not something you can comprehend.

http://algoxy.com/psych/9-11scenario.html#anchor1212053

SETTING DETONATORS:

Inspection ports provided would allow access to the big vertical bar in the concrete shear walls of the core. I remember these mentioned in the documentary as needed to check the condition of the reinforcing bar. When the buildings were leased there was extensive service done on lower elevators. That was done in immediately following the leasing of the towers when news programs reported that employees working in the towers lower floors experienced delays getting to lower floors because they had to go above them and then come back down due to service on lower floor elevators. A flame initiation method that utilizes gas filled plastic tubes which is a safer, more stable detonation system would be used here as those blasting caps would sit for months in the occupied building. The gas is lit and burns to a detonator resembling an old fuse, or fire blasting cap. This system will not be inadvertently detonated by radio waves or static and can be left safely for months.

On the weekend before 9-11 the building was unlocked throughout the inside for cable upgrades for almost 48 hours above the 48th floor. Just about the right amount of time to access the inspection ports and complete the work done.

the inspection ports into the cast concrete pour are opened and 4 inches of C4 scraped off the rebar interrupting the explosive circuit where a delay cap initiated with the gas detonation circuit is inserted. Shielding the C4 from the upper detonation with a steel cover would assure that the lower cap would be intact for delayed detonation. The opportunity for setting detonators on the upper 48 floors of WTC 2 is documented below. It is implied that the entire WTC underwent the same cable upgrade.
 
who made up this junk about detonation circuits, there were none at the WTC the security, the private security guys for some of the businesses were on the ball, they would have found them, they did not

you are wrong again, I have seen that the WTC businesses had independent security who would have found silly stuff like you make up
 
Inspection ports provided would allow access to the big vertical bar in the concrete shear walls of the core. I remember these mentioned in the documentary as needed to check the condition of the reinforcing bar.

...the inspection ports into the cast concrete pour are opened and 4 inches of C4 scraped off the rebar interrupting the explosive circuit where a delay cap initiated with the gas detonation circuit is inserted.


This might be a dumb question, but wouldn't the inspection ports have made the C4 visible to all sorts of maintenance workers?

The opportunity for setting detonators on the upper 48 floors of WTC 2 is documented below. It is implied that the entire WTC underwent the same cable upgrade.
"Implied"??? Don't you mean "fantasized"? There is no evidence that there was any major work similar to the magnitude of what your single witness claims took place in WTC2, so your claim about how the detonators were installed is implausible.
 
"NUTS!"

250px-Anthony_McAuliffe.jpg
 
I talk about preserving the principles of the US Constitution, our rights and freedoms.
Yes, all you do is talk. How about some action? What have you done that is of any consequence in all these years? What are your plans for bringing the 'real' perpertrators to justice and why are you wasting your time here?
 
Collapse Just Is Not Logical

who made up this junk about detonation circuits, there were none at the WTC the security, the private security guys for some of the businesses were on the ball, they would have found them, they did not

you are wrong again, I have seen that the WTC businesses had independent security who would have found silly stuff like you make up

Hey, these firefighters are discussing, testifying about a delay system working floor by floor,

http://algoxy.com/psych/images/discussion_in_firehouse.mpg

We neen an explanation for this and COLLAPSE is NOT logical

Inside the core security is going to find them? No. they are not looking at all, let alone from the roof of an elevator.

No, the ports were potted in paraffin or something like that looking like part of the construction, and they were.
After the lease there were news reports of people on lower floors having to take elevators over their floor then come back down on other elevators. The plugs were very thick and took serious work to dig through to get the caps next to the rebar, as well as stripping off C4 to create delays. Although judging from the shape and size of this explosion, I don't think three was much delay. i need to see a video to make a call on that. Stripping off the C4, 4 feet inside a wall at the bottom of an inspection port doesn't sound easy, let alone connecting a delay with det cord.
This works was causing delays and the fact made the news. I did not personally see/hear this on the TV but read the fact on another message board a couple of years back. Others confirmed it.

On the floor panels there was probably a sheet metal cover near the core wall that had a couple of screws in it and under it was security phone lines. Under the lines was concrete except for a paraffin plug. 4-5 inches through the plug was C4. Insert a cap and rest the delay circuit on floor, connect it into the color coded phone circuit designated for detonators, replace the cover and continue to the next one.

The delays in the detonation system created these early blasts to steer the top of WTC 2 to the east.
 
Last edited:
just curious as to the engineering / explosives qualifications of the OP?

and no, I refuse to do a search function on over 200 consecutive posts..

jesus-tap-dancing-christ, this thing is huge.
 
All I have is raw evidence

No, that's not what you said:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2109655&postcount=7806

and a few sites with testimonials that provide corroboration from uninterested parties showing a consistency to the words "concret core" despite the confusion caused by the fact that no final construction blueprints have ever been provided to any one.

You mean, despite the fact that every expert in the world says you're wrong, that no one remembers the core, that your principal "testimonial" comes from a Canadian grade school, that you've admitted that your pictures may show dust.

Should I go on ?
 
I don't find any images of raw evidence of steel core columns there.

Wrong burden of proof. NO CONCRETE CORE is mentionned, either.

OMG!

Serious distortions there. How did the building stand for 33 years with all the potential fragility you imply?

Are you saying that a collapsing, 110-storey building will NOT make loud bangs ?

I just provided a complete and detailed reply to your unfounded and unsupported contention, here.

So what is the below?

Something you made up. No quotations. You just make it up, don't you ?

Hey, these firefighters are discussing, testifying about a delay system working floor by floor,

Speculation. They're talking about explosions, not explosives.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Back
Top Bottom