92 year old woman dies in Police shootout!

Mephisto

Philosopher
Mephisto
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Apr 10, 2005
Messages
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Now, is this legal? Someone breaks into an elderly ladies home, at night, in a crime-ridden neighborhood (no saying whether they identified themselves as police officers, or that she could hear/understand that they were), and they're surprised that they're fired upon?

Sounds to me like the lady was within her rights, and the police were a little trigger-happy. Oh, regarding the "drugs found" at the address, make note how the drugs aren't identified as illegal drugs (they could be high blood pressure medication and pain relievers).

92-year-old killed in 'roughest neighborhood in Georgia'

POSTED: 10:19 p.m. EST, November 22, 2006

ATLANTA, Georgia (AP) -- Many people on the run-down northwest Atlanta street where Kathryn Johnston lived fortify their windows with metal bars and arm themselves for protection.

Johnston, 92, was no exception.

Alone in her home, she was waiting with her gun on Tuesday night when a group of plainclothes officers with a warrant knocked down her door in a search for drugs, police said.

She opened fire, wounding three officers, before being shot to death, police said. (Watch niece's fury at police shooting )

Assistant Police Chief Alan Dreher called the killing "tragic and unfortunate" but said the officers were justified in returning fire.

"You don't know who's in the house until you open that door," Dreher said Wednesday. "And once they forced open the door, they were immediately fired upon."

My comment Apparently, they didn't think the inverse might also be true - that the old woman might have been slightly scared about who was trying to gain entrance to her home.


The Rev. Markel Hutchins, a civil rights activist and spokesman for Johnston's family, said he could understand why the elderly woman would arm herself.

"She was afraid," Hutchins said. "This is a horrifying situation in a neighborhood where crime happens often. This incident is a result of a mix-up."

http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/11/22/woman.shot.ap/index.html
 
Mephisto said:
Now, is this legal? Someone breaks into an elderly ladies home, at night, in a crime-ridden neighborhood (no saying whether they identified themselves as police officers, or that she could hear/understand that they were), and they're surprised that they're fired upon?

Sounds to me like the lady was within her rights, and the police were a little trigger-happy. Oh, regarding the "drugs found" at the address, make note how the drugs aren't identified as illegal drugs (they could be high blood pressure medication and pain relievers).

92-year-old killed in 'roughest neighborhood in Georgia'

POSTED: 10:19 p.m. EST, November 22, 2006

ATLANTA, Georgia (AP) -- Many people on the run-down northwest Atlanta street where Kathryn Johnston lived fortify their windows with metal bars and arm themselves for protection.

Johnston, 92, was no exception.

Alone in her home, she was waiting with her gun on Tuesday night when a group of plainclothes officers with a warrant knocked down her door in a search for drugs, police said.

She opened fire, wounding three officers, before being shot to death, police said. (Watch niece's fury at police shooting )

Assistant Police Chief Alan Dreher called the killing "tragic and unfortunate" but said the officers were justified in returning fire.

"You don't know who's in the house until you open that door," Dreher said Wednesday. "And once they forced open the door, they were immediately fired upon."

My comment Apparently, they didn't think the inverse might also be true - that the old woman might have been slightly scared about who was trying to gain entrance to her home.


The Rev. Markel Hutchins, a civil rights activist and spokesman for Johnston's family, said he could understand why the elderly woman would arm herself.

"She was afraid," Hutchins said. "This is a horrifying situation in a neighborhood where crime happens often. This incident is a result of a mix-up."

http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/11/22/woman.shot.ap/index.html
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Perhaps you missed this part:
The officers had gone to the old woman's house with a search warrant after buying drugs there from a man known only as Sam, police said.

Police issued a "John Doe" warrant on Wednesday for the arrest of Sam, believed to be in his early to mid 30s, who allegedly sold the drugs to the undercover agent.
Dreher would not say how the dealer knew Johnston.
Investigators also said they found drugs in the home after Johnston was killed.
Click to expand...

Though I am not a hard core "kill the druggies" kind of guy, one must expect that when fired upon by someone in a house where drugs are being dealt, that it might be wise to fire back, even if the gunman is a 92-year-old woman. Did you also see that she wounded several of the officers?
The police chief said the officers had identified themselves and then forced open the door of Johnson's house where she had lived for 17 years.
Investigator Gary Smith, 38, was shot in the leg and Investigator Cary Bond, 38, was struck in the arm.
Investigator Gregg Junnier, 40, was hit in the leg, the face and his bulletproof vest. They were taken to the hospital and are expected to recover.
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I think she knew exactly who she was firing at.
 
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Maybe so, Tricky, but I think we'll never see the follow-up article regarding the nature of the "drugs" the police found in her home.

Still, I think this says a lot about the woman . . .

"The Rev. Markel Hutchins, a civil rights activist and spokesman for Johnston's family, said he could understand why the elderly woman would arm herself.

"She was afraid," Hutchins said. "This is a horrifying situation in a neighborhood where crime happens often. This incident is a result of a mix-up."

And IF the woman did know who she was shooting at (and why), shouldn't this police force consider boning up on breaching a domicile? I suppose the cops were lucky that she wasn't two or three determined drug pushers with assault rifles.
 
I wouldn't want to be a Police officer, and I certainly wouldn't want to be put in that situation. That being said, why is it cops are so incredibly stupid about how they are perceived by the general public. They should apologize publicly and loudly about shooting a 92 year old woman (even if they think they were justified).

The facts of the case will come out eventually.
 
Personally I prefer the police to kill members of the public irrespective of their race, sex or age.
 
Where is Claus, to say that this woman would still be alive if she had not been armed?

:duck:
 
sphenisc said:
Personally I prefer the police to kill members of the public irrespective of their race, sex or age.
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Really?
I can't imagine any plausible scenarios at all of where it would be necessary for police to kill anyone 5 years old or younger, under any circumstances at all. Can you?
 
drug war

This is just another example of the horrors caused by this ridiculous, horrible "War on Drugs". Now, say you're an old lady who lives in a dangerous neighborhood and who's only protection is a gun. Next, suppose a bunch of strange men break down your front door. What would you do? The fact is, there is somebody to blame for all of the times this sort of thing has happened and it is not the victims.
 
Gurdur said:
Really?
I can't imagine any plausible scenarios at all of where it would be necessary for police to kill anyone 5 years old or younger, under any circumstances at all. Can you?
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No, but then judgements made on factors which happen to correlate with age are not the same as judgements based on age.
 
Gurdur said:
Really?
I can't imagine any plausible scenarios at all of where it would be necessary for police to kill anyone 5 years old or younger, under any circumstances at all. Can you?
Click to expand...

I can. Someone straps a bomb to a five year old and has them run towards a big group of people.

Implausible? Only in some parts of the world.
 
I get it - so, somebody is shooting a gun and floors three cops, and what the cops (that are left) are supposed to do in that situation is try to talk to the shooter (over the gun fire) and hope she gets the message and stops shooting before she kills the rest of them.
 
billydkid said:
This is just another example of the horrors caused by this ridiculous, horrible "War on Drugs". Now, say you're an old lady who lives in a dangerous neighborhood and who's only protection is a gun. Next, suppose a bunch of strange men break down your front door. What would you do? The fact is, there is somebody to blame for all of the times this sort of thing has happened and it is not the victims.
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It seems you're making some assumptions here that are not in evidence.

1) The police were "strange men". The report indicates they identified themselves as police and the old woman was ready for their entrance enough to wound three of them before being shot herself.

2) The old woman was a "victim". Not everyone who is 92 years old is feeble, timid and unaware of what they are doing. This person did better in a gunfight that most young people with training would have.
 
billydkid said:
This is just another example of the horrors caused by this ridiculous, horrible "War on Drugs". Now, say you're an old lady who lives in a dangerous neighborhood and who's only protection is a gun. Next, suppose a bunch of strange men break down your front door. What would you do? The fact is, there is somebody to blame for all of the times this sort of thing has happened and it is not the victims.
Click to expand...

No. Just because you don't think the law is correct, does not mean you break it. If illegal activity is done in your home and the cops show up with a warrant, you do not shoot at them. You look through the door, see the warrant, and let them in. The fact she hasn't shot a delivery man or one of Sam's customers is evidence that she doesn't shoot everyone who comes to the door. They were not strangers once they identified themselves.
 
Mycroft said:
2) The old woman was a "victim". Not everyone who is 92 years old is feeble, timid and unaware of what they are doing. This person did better in a gunfight that most young people with training would have.
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Correct. There are plenty of elderly who have been busted for dealing.
 
I would be remiss if I didn't point out that this again is more evidence of Cleon's Dictum of Georgian Affairs:

Whenever Georgia is in the national news, it's always for something stupid.
 
Mephisto said:
Maybe so, Tricky, but I think we'll never see the follow-up article regarding the nature of the "drugs" the police found in her home.

Still, I think this says a lot about the woman . . .

"The Rev. Markel Hutchins, a civil rights activist and spokesman for Johnston's family, said he could understand why the elderly woman would arm herself.

"She was afraid," Hutchins said. "This is a horrifying situation in a neighborhood where crime happens often. This incident is a result of a mix-up."

And IF the woman did know who she was shooting at (and why), shouldn't this police force consider boning up on breaching a domicile? I suppose the cops were lucky that she wasn't two or three determined drug pushers with assault rifles.
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There was no "mix-up". Drugs were bought from the home. Warrant issued. Police arrive with warrant. Police were not let in. Police bust open door. Suspect(s) open fire on police. Police return fire. Shooter dead. Drugs found. Unfortunate, but done by the book. BTW, if the drugs were painkillers, that is still illegal. Is dealing prescription oxycotin supposed to be better than dealing dope?
 
Tailgater said:
No. Just because you don't think the law is correct, does not mean you break it. If illegal activity is done in your home and the cops show up with a warrant, you do not shoot at them. You look through the door, see the warrant, and let them in. The fact she hasn't shot a delivery man or one of Sam's customers is evidence that she doesn't shoot everyone who comes to the door. They were not strangers once they identified themselves.
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I don't know if you've ever watch the TV show Cops or not, but they don't knock on the door, wait for you to answer and show you the warrant. They break the door down and burst in. And these were plain clothes police. I'm pretty sure the UPS guy doesn't generally knock down your door. No matter what the police do and no matter how authoritarian our society becomes and no matter how much our rights to be left alone and live as we choose are trampled, there will be apologists. Prostitution is a crime also and at the time of 9/11 the FBI had twice as many people going after prostitution rings than investigating terrorism. At some point something like sanity has to prevail. The old "it's the law" routine - like the law in Georgia banning sex toys or the one in Alabama under which you can be executed for putting salt on railroad tracks.
 
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