Who Disrespects NYPD & NYFD

The article dates back to 2002, I'll have to read what they said recently about it, it should be interesting...
 
beachnut said:
Fire burned all day, out of control, extra fuel available in the building to run generators,

Look it up, the CT say the Madrid building did not fall in a fire. It had no extra fuel like the WTC had to run generators, yet the steel frame sections fell after a few hours of fire. So why would the steel frame WTC7, with damage to it from the fall of WTC1/2, and a big fire burning all day, why is it impossible to fall when the fire was not fought. Why did firemen say it was going to fall? Do firemen always fear that a building burning out of control can fail and fall on them? Anyone?

Show me the video where you are able to see more that the top fall, and I can show you more than a 6 second free fall! How do you know the interior did not fail first, this building was very unique, and ideas on it?

are you ignoring the other reports about how it did not look like a CD, besides the facts the noise of CD is not there.

What evidence did you garner from the video of this poor guy or else where to support a free fall, I found 13 seconds as the collapse time and could not see the final fall due to buildings.??
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The north face fell in 6, I know the penthouse thing fell before that. Its a pity no one could film from the south or a helicopter.
 
Russell Pickering said:
We have no idea. It happened for the first time three times in one day, straight down, within a couple of blocks of each other.
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And, even more bizarrely, coincided with a huge terrorist attack! What are the odds of that?

Russell, I hope you get my point that if you (or anyone) is going to say that something was "wrong" with the way the buildings collapsed, they need a reason for saying so. I'm sick of CTs claiming things shouldn't have sounded/looked/happened the way they did, but not being able to provide any plausible, reasoned, educated alternative to what the experts say.
 
Pardalis said:
The article dates back to 2002, I'll have to read what they said recently about it, it should be interesting...
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That article is what actually likely resulted in NIST working on it.

And beleive me, the firemen were not giving a damn about any whacko explosives tales. They were worried about structures in the future having similar problems and weaknesses.

Its had results. Look at the construction of the Comcast building in Philadelphia right now.
 
firecoins said:
Actually it isn't the NYFD. Its the FDNY.
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I mentioned that to Russell a week or so ago on another thread and he didn't respond to my query about why he called them by the wrong name, particularly with him being a former firefighter himself and all.

But he didn't answer.

And I mentioned it again here on this thread, and again he didn't respond to my query about why he called them by the wrong name.

Hmph.

(Not that it has a lot to do with the rest of the thread, but it bugged me the first time I saw him use the wrong reference after he reported his firefighting history; then he repeated it (NYFD rather than FDNY) dozens of times in subsequent posts. As mentioned above, I eventually asked him on that other thread about his getting the name wrong but, alas, he didn't answer.)

He didn't answer my question about it here, either. Maybe he'll answer yours :)
 
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Russell Pickering said:
I think it was very prudent of them given the events of the day to consider a collapse.

It is also normal procedure to have a collapse/debris zone around any high rise fire.

Sine the structural damage was evident from the first moment of the incident, and the people had been evacuated, why do you think FDNY commanders let firefighters go inside an unoccupied building for a good portion of the day if they assessed that the damage was likely to result in total failure.

Why would they do this?

Russell
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Because some were still looking for survivors. When numerous fire fighters came out of WTC7 some time after 11:30 they stated that several blocks should be cleared around WTC7 because they thought the building was going to collapse. After that Con Ed personal arrived on the scene but firefighers did not let them enter the building because it was not safe. This was between 12:00-2:00
During 12:30-2:00 there was a search and rescue on floors 1-9. The people in the building were the building fire safety manager deputy fire safety manager and the battalion chief.

The chief officer met with his command officer stated that there was a lot fire in the building. At 2:30 the final order was given to completly abandon the area and evacuate the surrounding area.

http://wtc.nist.gov/pubs/NISTNCSTAR1-81.pdf
 
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What makes me sick is that the "Truth movement" is using this poor man Bartmer to push their sick ideas. This guy is a victim of 9/11, and they are using him, using his illness and fragile mental state, literally putting words in his mouth to help their sick cause.

Despicable. :mad:
 
realitybites said:
It was spirited off right-quick to Fresh Kills in the far-off and distant land of Staten Island.
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you mean the steel I saw school and engineer studying was on Fresh Kills, it looked like a research yard

you do know the parts of the WTC were all labeled and it made it easier to figure where the part was in the WTC, so scientist and engineers were able to get real research done on the items that were critical

so you are implying no one researched the WTC steel to help make improvements

if so, I have see papers and research in the past 5 years that used evidence from the WTC to improve buildings and materials

Sad that people like Dr Jones choose to make up stuff and not improve structures to help us survive future disasters.
 
Pardalis said:
What makes me sick is that the "Truth movement" is using this poor man Bartmer to push their sick ideas. This guy is a victim of 9/11, and they are using him, using his illness and fragile mental state, literally putting words in his mouth to help their sick cause.

Despicable. :mad:
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I second that
 
Gravy said:
And, even more bizarrely, coincided with a huge terrorist attack! What are the odds of that?

Russell, I hope you get my point that if you (or anyone) is going to say that something was "wrong" with the way the buildings collapsed, they need a reason for saying so. I'm sick of CTs claiming things shouldn't have sounded/looked/happened the way they did, but not being able to provide any plausible, reasoned, educated alternative to what the experts say.
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I understand.
 
It's important to remember that Bill Manning's anger had nothing to do with CT claims that the steel was removed to hide an "inside job" CD. Manning has never believed or supported 9/11 conspiracy theorists or their claims.

His quote from Fire Engineering is, as usual, taken out of context. Manning was justifiably angry that more steel was not preserved, because he wanted fire safety engineers like himself to be able to study it in order to better answer these questions:

"Can the fire service really handle high rise fires adequately? What part did lightweight steel trusses, some reported to have been in excess of 50 feet long, play in the collapse? How effective was the modern sprayed-on steel "fireproofing" employed at the WTC? How relevant to today's fires are the criteria established for the ASTM E-119 fire resistance test developed in the 1920's? When should the defend-in-place strategy for the WTC be used and not used for large high-rise fires? What can be done to make communication by radio possible in high-rise buildings?" (Fire Engineer, February, 2002)

Please keep these quotes in context, CTs.
 
LashL said:
"The guy" is wrong.
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Clearly he has been fed poor information. NIST is looking into the demo claims, all the steel was not shipped away to China. Heck some of it is still in the hanger (Hangar 17 of Kennedy International Airport). Some of the WTC7 steel has been tested and double tested by multible groups. I get tired of the same false claims.
http://www.me.wpi.edu/MTE/People/imsm.html
 
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Just realized that I have a whole lot of posts to catch up on if I'm going to avoid repeating a whole lot of stuff in response to posts by the couple of resident tinhatters.... I'll go and read for a while rather than make repetitious responses to the usual CT nonsense, which I'm sure is being well handled by other posters.

I'm hoping there's something new or different or interesting to respond to, though, once I've read the latest CTer posts above ... but I won't hold my breath.
 
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jessicarabbit said:
The north face fell in 6, I know the penthouse thing fell before that. Its a pity no one could film from the south or a helicopter.
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does this mean no you do not or have not seen the whole building fall

the video we just watched had the fall, from first falling object in the building to building falling past the other building as 13 seconds.

Where did you find a video showing 6 seconds or is this a standard CT time?
 
Kent1 said:
Because some were still looking for survivors. When numerous fire fighters came out of WTC7 some time after 11:30 they stated that several blocks should be cleared around WTC7 because they thought the building was going to collapse. After that Con Ed personal arrived on the scene but firefighers did not let them enter the building because it was not safe. This was between 12:00-2:00
During 12:30-2:00 there was a search and rescue on floors 1-9. The people in the building were the building fire safety manager deputy fire safety manager and the battalion chief.

The chief officer met with his command officer stated that there was a lot fire in the building. At 2:30 the final order was given to completly abandon the area and evacuate the surrounding area.

http://wtc.nist.gov/pubs/NISTNCSTAR1-81.pdf
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Thank you. That is a very interesting report. They did use the tradtional terms for the fire service of evacuate and abandon as I suspected.
 
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