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Changes To The Challenge

Awww.... I wonder if I have been pipped at the post.

I was getting some stuff together to create a thread or two suggesting 'templates' for the more popular challenges. It all started when I was reading that ridiculous thread about whether or not Mr Randi accepts the telephone telepathy stuff or not.

I thought that instead of going round in circles about whether or not the exact details laid out by the original experimenter would meet the challenge criteria, why not create the challenge info in a nice ready - formatted template? I could do the same for some of the other challenges that come up regularly.

The idea is to have a template per claim type, and put in as much stuff as possible to assist a claimant in seeing the kind of thing that is required when making a sensible challenge. I know that the FAQ's say this does not exist, because everybody claims very individual things, but I didn't see any harm in providing some base material that can be altered as required by claimants, and might help some of those with a poorer grasp of english. It might also help some people who are just bewildered when it comes to starting documents. Updating existing documents is an easier task than starting with a blank sheet, sometimes.

So, I wonder if the JREF might be considering something like this - and if not, I will maybe get round to starting my own thread on it - as mentioned.
 
I imagine they'll probably advertise in science and other magazines that will let them in regards to challenge offers.
 
dogjones said:
Grrrrr. I hate the word 'pro-active'. You're either active or reactive. What's the difference between 'pro-active' and 'active'?
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I think it's just to put some punch into the word to distinguish it, i.e., proactive...inactive...reactive.

I think the difference between proactive and active is just how big of an SOB you are while engaging in your "activity" (or is it "proactivity")?

Now I've confused myself. :mad:
 
Zep said:
Let's hope Jeff isn't getting rightsized, but is being customer-focused going forward.
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Zep, since Jeff can't even find the time to post Challenge applications anymore, I predict he will be ostra-sized rather than being customer focused.

I further predict that Randi will call on the JREF forum Randi-bots and evil minions to search out and attack psychics and homeopaths, etc. in a PETA like fashion, causing an imbalance in the quantum universal force.
 
Uh oh. I listened to the podcast, and one thing mentioned was that the contest won't be open to everyone anymore. It sounds like they're going to be focusing more on just the big league guys and publically denouncing and calling them out, and not accepting the smaller league ones.
This I think would really hurt the mission. Part of its goal is to test anyone who thinks they have a (kind of) reasonable paranormal claim. If they abandon that it'll just reinforce all the guys who say, "See, there's people with powers that they won't test!"
 
dogjones said:
Grrrrr. I hate the word 'pro-active'. You're either active or reactive. What's the difference between 'pro-active' and 'active'?

I get the difference between procreative and creative though.

But anyway, I'm intrigued!
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Proactive is a buzzword, the others are real words.:D
 
Skiltch said:
Uh oh. I listened to the podcast, and one thing mentioned was that the contest won't be open to everyone anymore. It sounds like they're going to be focusing more on just the big league guys and publically denouncing and calling them out, and not accepting the smaller league ones.
This I think would really hurt the mission. Part of its goal is to test anyone who thinks they have a (kind of) reasonable paranormal claim. If they abandon that it'll just reinforce all the guys who say, "See, there's people with powers that they won't test!"
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Plus, the big leaguers aren't going to take the challenge anyway. They have way too much to lose by failing so publicly.
 
roger said:
I hope this means that they are going to go after things like electronic dowsing rods, homeopathic remedies, etc., test them independently, and then issue press releases when (if) the device fails the test. With an offer to the manufacturer to participate in the design of the test prior to running the test (it would only be fair, and make them look worse when they decline).
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I hope so as well. And adding secret members in audiences during psychic shows. This would rule. Only way to really expose these people is to go after them.
 
Skiltch said:
Uh oh. I listened to the podcast, and one thing mentioned was that the contest won't be open to everyone anymore. It sounds like they're going to be focusing more on just the big league guys and publicly denouncing and calling them out, and not accepting the smaller league ones.
This I think would really hurt the mission. Part of its goal is to test anyone who thinks they have a (kind of) reasonable paranormal claim. If they abandon that it'll just reinforce all the guys who say, "See, there's people with powers that they won't test!"
Click to expand...

If I read this right, I actually think doing this will add credibility and focus to the challenge. Rather than scrambling around dealing with random bits and pieces of half-formed challenge applications from all sorts of people who no-one has ever heard of, they'll be out targeting the people who have already made very public claims about their abilities and then making them put up or shut-up. The potential media coverage from this approach is much larger than the application method, and will attract a lot more attention. Also it is the big fraudsters who I imagine JREF really want to shut down, not the party tricksters. All in all I think this is the right direction to go in.

And by the way - that podcast is awesome! What a fascinating discussion! :)
 
A standard response from the 'big guys' IMO will just be that they are only interested in persuing the standard channels of research, and not playing with organizations in the skeptical movement.
 
Ginarley said:
If I read this right, I actually think doing this will add credibility and focus to the challenge. Rather than scrambling around dealing with random bits and pieces of half-formed challenge applications from all sorts of people who no-one has ever heard of, they'll be out targeting the people who have already made very public claims about their abilities and then making them put up or shut-up. The potential media coverage from this approach is much larger than the application method, and will attract a lot more attention. Also it is the big fraudsters who I imagine JREF really want to shut down, not the party tricksters. All in all I think this is the right direction to go in.

And by the way - that podcast is awesome! What a fascinating discussion! :)
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I agree. Over the years, the effectiveness of the Challenge has been greatly diminished. The Challenge was intended as a publicity tool - a way to generate interest in the Foundation and make a point about the non-existence of paranormal abilities. But it came to be treated as if the primary purpose were to actually test people who claim paranormal powers. Think of the time and energy spent going back and forth with random nutjobs, nailing down their claims, setting up test protocols, even getting them to submit a proper application! In the end the test usually never happens, as a protocol is never agreed upon or the applicant backs down at the last minute. And the only people who ever hear about it are a few dozen regulars on the JREF forum. Reworking the Challenge to be more "pro-active" (or "active," if you prefer) is a great thing, and I'm looking forward to seeing just how it will be implemented in the future.

I agree about the podcast, as well!!
 
T'ai Chi said:
A standard response from the 'big guys' IMO will just be that they are only interested in persuing the standard channels of research, and not playing with organizations in the skeptical movement.
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[Insert generic quip about T'ai Chi's position to JREF Challenge here.] :D
 
T'ai Chi said:
A standard response from the 'big guys' IMO will just be that they are only interested in persuing the standard channels of research, and not playing with organizations in the skeptical movement.
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Why imagine? Why not just wait for the announcement? :rolleyes:
 
T'ai Chi said:
A standard response from the 'big guys' IMO will just be that they are only interested in persuing the standard channels of research, and not playing with organizations in the skeptical movement.
Click to expand...

'Standard channels of research' being what, in this context?
 
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