Penn & Teller barbecue the Bible

[Huntster]

....Yes, it is all your fault.

Sue me.

 

[Huntster]

1.) Assuming that god does not exist then a lot of innocent people have died for nothing.

Innocent people die for nothing all the time in events that have nothing to do with God. They don't pay attention and step out in front of a moving vehicle. The fall down from heights. They get struck by bullets during a gang shooting.

Even if people aren't innocent, they die. We are all guaranteed to physically die.

2.) Assuming that god does indeed exist then a lot of innocent people have died for god.

See my reply to your first profound observation.

Why do people need to die in the name of god. I say we stop it.

I agree.

I suspect God does, too.

Now. How do you propose to stop it?

 

[RandFan]

I think it's important because people will continue to be cognizant of God.

And they will continue to kill people in the name of god.

In addition to death and wars, it also produces debate and thought, like this.

There will always be debate and thought. We don't need people to die for that.

And I still reject your "logic".

Gainsaying.

 

[RandFan]

Innocent people die for nothing all the time in events that have nothing to do with God.

That does't justify killing innocent people in the name of god.

See my reply to your first profound observation.

Sadly they didn't need to die. No matter how you slice it, innocent people need not die for god. And since there is no proof that there is a god perhaps we should stop killing for god.

Now. How do you propose to stop it?

I can't do much. I can only show people how utterly senseless it is to murder innocent people in the name of god. I can logically show those who can understand logic that the more people who condemn ALL killing in the name of god the better off we will all be. Sadly this is a rather large presumption on my part.

 

[Tony]

Well, I'm very interested to learn that a mind reader is participating here. If you know that I'm "purposefully not trying to understand what RandFan is telling me", then you must also know what I'm thinking at this precise moment.

Can you tell us all what that is?

Thanks for proving my point.

Yes, it should be clear from post #290 that I haven't comprehended what RandFan is saying. Like I pointed out in post #290, RandFan is conflicting him/her self with the posts cited.

No he's not. That you think he is is evidence of your sub par comprehension. No surprise really, having sub par cognitive abilities is a prerequisite for someone of your religious devotion. You're demonstrating that stereotype right now.

 

[Tony]

This post is an example of logical reasoning. I understand logic and reasoning as well as the next guy.

No you don't

What I'm doing is rejecting your logic and reasoning, outlining why, and responding to your continued struggling.

That you exhibit this attitude demonstrates that you do not understand logic. Logic is not subjective, there is no such thing (beyond a figure of speech) as "your logic". Logic, by its very nature, is objective and not dependent on a person's perspective.

 

[Huntster]

Originally Posted by Huntster
I think it's important because people will continue to be cognizant of God.

And they will continue to kill people in the name of god.

They will also continue to kill people for wealth and power, and claim they do it in the name of God.

Quote:
In addition to death and wars, it also produces debate and thought, like this.

There will always be debate and thought. We don't need people to die for that.

Are you killing anybody?

I'm not.

 

[Huntster]

Quote:
See my reply to your first profound observation.

Sadly they didn't need to die. No matter how you slice it, innocent people need not die for god. And since there is no proof that there is a god perhaps we should stop killing for god.

"We"? Are you killing people in the name of God?

Whoever it is who is killing innocent people should stop doing so, whether they do it in the name of God, or for any other reason.

Quote:
Now. How do you propose to stop it?

I can't do much. I can only show people how utterly senseless it is to murder innocent people in the name of god. I can logically show those who can understand logic that the more people who condemn ALL killing in the name of god the better off we will all be. Sadly this is a rather large presumption on my part.

Maybe if you drop the "in the name of God" stuff, and focus on showing people how utterly evil it is to kill people PERIOD, you might gain some ground.

 

[Huntster]

Originally Posted by Huntster
Well, I'm very interested to learn that a mind reader is participating here. If you know that I'm "purposefully not trying to understand what RandFan is telling me", then you must also know what I'm thinking at this precise moment.

Can you tell us all what that is?

Thanks for proving my point.

I didn't prove any point you might have tried to make. I asked a question, which you didn't answer. Again:

If you know that I'm "purposefully not trying to understand what RandFan is telling me", then you must also know what I'm thinking at this precise moment.

Can you tell us all what that is?

Quote:
Yes, it should be clear from post #290 that I haven't comprehended what RandFan is saying. Like I pointed out in post #290, RandFan is conflicting him/her self with the posts cited.

No he's not. That you think he is is evidence of your sub par comprehension.

I'm not making assumptions on his/her comprehension compared to mine. I admitted that I didn't understand the conflicting posts, and I asked for clarification.

Why do you continue to assume what I'm thinking, yet when I test your powers of mind reading, you fail to answer the question?:

Again, what am I thinking at this precise moment?

No surprise really, having sub par cognitive abilities is a prerequisite for someone of your religious devotion. You're demonstrating that stereotype right now.

Oh, ouch! Wow! What a powerful blow you have delivered me!

And how awesomely intelligent and cognitive you are!

Now please impress us with more of your mind reading skills:

What am I thinking at this precise moment?

 

[Huntster]

...That you exhibit this attitude demonstrates that you do not understand logic. Logic is not subjective, there is no such thing (beyond a figure of speech) as "your logic". Logic, by its very nature, is objective and not dependent on a person's perspective.

There most certainly is "your logic" if you insist on reasoning with information or facts that are untrue, incomplete, or biased.

 

[elliotfc]

Wow, what a thread.

Huntster you're doing some good stuff here, tough to put dents in brick walls but points for effort!

-Elliot

 

[Huntster]

Wow, what a thread.

Huntster you're doing some good stuff here, tough to put dents in brick walls but points for effort!

-Elliot

Thank you so much, Elliot. I hope you know I always enjoy your posts, and you are much better than I at keeping your patience with those brick walls.

 

[elliotfc]

Thank you so much, Elliot. I hope you know I always enjoy your posts, and you are much better than I at keeping your patience with those brick walls.

Nah, I'm always typing something, and then retyping it with candy-coating. Too concerned with appearance. If you have to try to be engaging, like I do, maybe it isn't worth the effort. I like your direct approach. But enough with the sweet talk.

 

[RandFan]

They will also continue to kill people for wealth and power, and claim they do it in the name of God.

People who commit suicide to kill other people don't do it for wealth and power.

 

[RandFan]

Whoever it is who is killing innocent people should stop doing so, whether they do it in the name of God, or for any other reason.

Agreed 100% That all killing is bad doesn't excuse killing in the name of god though. More importantly, it doesn't make the bible a source of moral instruction.

Maybe if you drop the "in the name of God" stuff, and focus on showing people how utterly evil it is to kill people PERIOD, you might gain some ground.

What reason do you have to believe this is true? I don't think there is any reason to believe this. The problem, as this discussion is concerned, isn't people killing it's people killing for god.

 

[RandFan]

Wow, what a thread.

Huntster you're doing some good stuff here, tough to put dents in brick walls but points for effort!

?

I've not engaged in fallacy. I've not refused to accept any logically valid argument. Huntster, demonstrably has.

I'm curious elliot, what valid arguments do you think huntster has made? As far as I can tell he has only made claims and gotten upset and blew a fuse and started using fowl language when he couldn't respond to a logically valid line of argument. I backed off and sincerely wished him well in a spirit of friendship when I could see he was melting down. that wasn't good enough for him. He had to respond with an arrogant and pompous post in which, again, he made claims without any argument.

So please, tell us exactly what huntster has done to impress you? Is it his gainsaying? His bullying tactics? His refusal to acknowledge valid arguments? What?

 

[RandFan]

Nah, I'm always typing something, and then retyping it with candy-coating. Too concerned with appearance. If you have to try to be engaging, like I do, maybe it isn't worth the effort. I like your direct approach. But enough with the sweet talk.

How about argument? Is this a child's sandbox?

 

[RandFan]

I personally find it difficult to look at the bible and come to any reasonable understanding as to what is good and bad. The 10 commandments state "thou shalt not kill" however the Jews did a lot of killing and that includes women and children. Now, perhaps it was justified (I'm not convinced but perhaps). Perhaps god told them to. Ok, so is killing good or bad? It really isn't clear.

This is how this all started.

I stand by this post. I can't use the bible to decide what is good and bad.

Moses ordered the murder of children and all of the arguments since then can't make that ok. No apologetics from the RCC can make that ok. And it isn't just a little bit of atrocity. There was a lot of atrocity.

No one has made a single argument to change this fact. I don't care if Huntster or elliot accept this. I don't. The point remains, one can't use the bible to determine what is good and bad.

You guys don't have to stop believing in the RCC or god or anything. The only thing you need to know is that there is no reason for a rational, logical and reasonable person to believe in god or use the bible as a source of moral guidance. End of story.

 

[Huntster]

Originally Posted by Huntster
They will also continue to kill people for wealth and power, and claim they do it in the name of God.

People who commit suicide to kill other people don't do it for wealth and power.

No, they do it for reasons of hatred.

But the ones who inspire them to do so (radical imams) are inspiring these poor, desperate young men to kill in the name of Allah for wealth and power.

 

[Huntster]

....I like your direct approach....

That's just the way I am.

But the direct approach attracts a lot of venom in return.

You know how much you injure the Beast by how loud he screams.........