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"Do You Believe in Hell?"

To all those who don't believe in hell. It doesn't matter. Hell believes in you.
 
brodski said:
Yeah, but everyone he knew was French. ;)
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But their food is so heavenly! ;)

As to the original question "Do you believe in Hell" I would ask why that matters?

If you do or don't, its existence will only be confirmed after death, at which point it's too late, isn't it? A Presbyterian once suggested to me that Hell wasn't a place, it was a state of being: being apart from God. That made more sense to me than the lakes of fire.

DR
 
Ted Haggard seems to be the typical blinkered evangalist and I find him and his kind extremely scary. On the other hand I found John Shelby Spong to be speaking much more sense. Now I'm not a Christian, I have been down that road but found it empty! But Spong definitely seemed more on my road of thinking these days. I don't believe in heaven or hell, I think these are from the Christians & earlier myths.
 
Many of you think that hell is just a metaphor, but it's actually fact. It's in the Center Of The Earth, which is actually a metaphor for where it really is, which isn't revealed to all, but it's fact that our Jesus lead the souls out of hell. What you guys are saying is also the metaphor for the facts. But I think eventually you'll see what I'm talking about and find the One True Path that is the Light of the Lord.
 
YBW, it's in the bible. And if you pray hard it's easy to see. Also do you not know what a metaphor is? That's a big part to it.
 
I'm fine with metaphors.

BTW - it's normal for somebody to ask the question "Evidence" in this forum, and to aim to get in before Claus Larsen - a kind of in joke :)

I'd be interested in the relevant verses if you have them handy.

Many years ago I was a very involved Presbyterian, but I drifted away, through Deism, Agnosticism to Atheism. Currently I'm on a kind of quest to understand Christianity to see if I made a mistake.

So that's why I enjoy visiting this part of the Forum!

YBW
 
That you YBW for your open mind. The biblemath is easy if you're smart. And you can see the light of the lord easy too.
 
I have a burning desire to answer this question, but the Devil is in the details... :D
 
Well, I don't personally believe that the concept of hell is even logically compatible with God as christians believe in him.

God is supposed to be an omnipotant, omniscient, perfectly good being who has our best interests in mind (I'm not saying this is actually the case, but this is what christians belive). The very idea that a perfectly good being would allow such a large number of people to spend eternity (that would be forever, neverending, however you want to put it) being tortured and submitted to all kinds of punishment which is so terrible that we can't even imagine what just one moment of that kind of suffering would be like seems just a bit out of line for such a good and powerfull person as God.

Even if it was just 1 person that has to go through that, it would be reasonable to believe that God, being omniscient, would know ahead of time that the 1 person would skrew up and go to hell. Being the perfectly good person that he is, God would just not create that person, becouse never having been created would be much better than having to endure hell. But it's not just one person that we are talking about. If we even think that 1% of the population throughout history is going to hell, that means tens of millions, or maybe even hundreds of millions of people are going to go to hell. What kind of perfectly good being would put people into a situation where it would be better had they never been created rather then just not create them? If hell really does exist than God must either not be omnipotent, not be omniscient, or not be a good person (as we (and the bible it seems) think of goodness).
 
Hyver said:
God is supposed to be an omnipotant, omniscient, perfectly good being who has our best interests in mind (I'm not saying this is actually the case, but this is what christians belive).
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Omnipotent/omniscient as he actually is, and not as we would define, as all of our definitions of God of course will not perfectly hit the mark. But yeah, this is what Christians believe.

The very idea that a perfectly good being would allow such a large number of people to spend eternity
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You're assuming that it is a large number of people. It may be a small number of people.

Btw, if it was a small number of people, would that be OK? And if so, why?

(that would be forever, neverending, however you want to put it) being tortured and submitted to all kinds of punishment which is so terrible that we can't even imagine what just one moment of that kind of suffering would be like seems just a bit out of line for such a good and powerfull person as God.
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There have been many threads about this, welcome to the boards btw.

Not all Christians believe in hell, you don't have to believe in hell to be a Christian, and some Christians don't picture hell as you lay it out, although certainly what you relate fits well with biblical descriptions of hell.

Whether or not it is like that, or it's like something else, God, who is a loving God, hates evil, and has a "perfect" sense of justice. Not perfect as we think it should be perfect, but perfect as God thinks it should be perfect. So of course I recognize that individuals can and do (free will of course) reject the fullness of God's justice, and they could follow up and say that God is actually not-loving and not-just and a real bastard, but that subjective sentiment has limited potency, agreed?

Even if it was just 1 person that has to go through that, it would be reasonable to believe that God, being omniscient, would know ahead of time that the 1 person would skrew up and go to hell.
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With free will, the 1 person screwing up screwed up freely. God's knowledge of this is contingent on the free will of the person. Foreknowledge yes, but contingent foreknowledge.

Being the perfectly good person that he is, God would just not create that person, becouse never having been created would be much better than having to endure hell.
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Unprovable opinion that you are of course free to have and promote. Others can/do disagree, perhaps God as well, and I see no objective standard you can point to which could persuade me that you are right. Who is to say that non-existence is better than a painful existence? You of course, and I respect that opinion while not feeling the need to genuflect to it.

But it's not just one person that we are talking about. If we even think that 1% of the population throughout history is going to hell, that means tens of millions, or maybe even hundreds of millions of people are going to go to hell.
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Speculation. Who knows. I do recognize that some Christians think it's more like 99% who go to hell. I think it's a stupid thing to speculate about personally.

What kind of perfectly good being would put people into a situation where it would be better had they never been created rather then just not create them? If hell really does exist than God must either not be omnipotent, not be omniscient, or not be a good person (as we (and the bible it seems) think of goodness).
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He is omnipotent/omniscient as he is, and not as we think he ought to be.

Of course I recognize that creatures with free will can judge God to not be good. God allows us that, and he even respects that opinion. Would that opinion have ramifications? I dunno, maybe. Or maybe God will eventually make all of this clearer in the next one. Or not. I'm the Christian and you seem to be way more dogmatic about these things than I.

-Elliot
 
elliotfc said:
Maybe someone ought to test this? I guess I'm not sure. Seemed like a good thing to say at the time.
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Maybe, but it raised some issues.

If Hell -assuming it exists- is capable of believing, then its not a "place" or a "state of self deprivation from God". It is an "entity". The closest thing to it in Christian theology would be [scary music] the Devil [/scary movie].
 
Correa Neto said:
Maybe, but it raised some issues.

If Hell -assuming it exists- is capable of believing, then its not a "place" or a "state of self deprivation from God". It is an "entity". The closest thing to it in Christian theology would be [scary music] the Devil [/scary movie].
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(shhh.....I did a horrible job at trying to be funny.....don't tell anybody)
 
(shhh... I know it, but I saw the perfect chance for a derail... Don't tell anybody, but I wanted to hear your opinion on the existence and the nature of the Devil and how it would fit with the notion of Hell being a state of self deprivation from God)

Yeah, I know, I should have started a thread on it...
My bad.
 
Correa Neto said:
(shhh... I know it, but I saw the perfect chance for a derail... Don't tell anybody, but I wanted to hear your opinion on the existence and the nature of the Devil and how it would fit with the notion of Hell being a state of self deprivation from God)
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I see!

Well...I think that misery loves company!

I think it makes the devil feel better if he can hang with like-minded souls.

-Elliot
 
elliotfc said:
Whether or not it is like that, or it's like something else, God, who is a loving God, hates evil, and has a "perfect" sense of justice. Not perfect as we think it should be perfect, but perfect as God thinks it should be perfect. So of course I recognize that individuals can and do (free will of course) reject the fullness of God's justice, and they could follow up and say that God is actually not-loving and not-just and a real bastard, but that subjective sentiment has limited potency, agreed?
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God's justice, eh? So "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" and Love thy neighbor" and all that, but don't hold God to the same standard, huh? Jesus is our example, and, by extension, God, yet we shouldn't act like him?

I'm sure you'll agree with this - how about you believe in the god you want, and I'll disbelieve in the god I want - a god that would seem to adhere to a double standard if he actually existed.
 
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