Has Anyone Seen A Realistice Explanation For Free Fall Of The Towers?

[Apollyon]

Thank you,

Sincerely provided correction. I clearly remember that the interior box columns were butt welded and that no x-rays would be provided. As a welder who could probably do an x-ray weld, I know that a couple of bubbles in a piece that size is not critical because the joint is so much better than one that is bolted.

Here is a welded column. interior box column. Butt weld up and to the right of the floor beam intersection, note ground surface in extrudede tube. This piece is from higher in the tower as it is extruded.

I've already shown you the link that TheFeds provided where Eager claimed the columns were tack welded, not butt welded. It's another claim where you are in opposition to an expert. For some reason you keep blowing right past it when it's been presented to you 4 times prviously. I will present it once again:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1714131&postcount=998

And the picture you link appears to show not a butt weld, but the beam clips welded onto the column. Clips are welded to each visible side of the column in that picture and you can clearly see where the bolts join the beams to the clips.

 

[Trifikas]

Complete and utter layman question:

Wouldn't the weakest part of that "Joint" (in the picture from number "6" above) be the part that breaks first? I.E. it would explode the concrete / mesh of the horizontal floor, rather than column itself?

 

[Christophera]

Not like that with plumes of concrete.

Aside from your WORD, can you demonstrate that ?

A classic example of where a demonstraton is totally ignored. Willful ignorance.

 

[Christophera]

I'm sorry, where in this mess do you mention that the error is the diameter?


Oh, that's right, you don't, I had to guess at what the hell you were typing. Par for the course I guess.

this is the problem when bb software doesn't carry the post replyed to.

The fact that 3,000 Americans have been murdered, laws violated and the Constitution compromised, 2 illegal wars waged, has become un important while the fact that a message not responding to you, neglected to state the problem with a post rather than just correcting it is important.

Wow. Major distortions of value systems. Must be related to your ability to rant.

 

[Christophera]

Eager

You have lost all credibility in sourcing quality information. He leaves out the floor beams in his analysis.

Where's a freakin' emoticon when you need one.

 

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

this is the problem when bb software doesn't carry the post replyed to.

No, you just said his post had an error. You did not state what the error was. The forum software has nothing to do with it.

The fact that 3,000 Americans have been murdered,

You just can't get anything correct, can you?
http://www.september11victims.com/september11victims/COUNTRY_CITIZENSHIP.htm

laws violated and the Constitution compromised

How was it compromised? If you mean the wiretaps and PATRIOT Act, I agree.

, 2 illegal wars waged,

Evidence they are illegal?

has become un important while the fact that a message not responding to you, neglected to state the problem with a post rather than just correcting it is important.

Wow. Major distortions of value systems. Must be related to your ability to rant.

What can I say, your drivel is an inspiration.

 

[Apollyon]

You have lost all credibility in sourcing quality information. He leaves out the floor beams in his analysis.

Where's a freakin' emoticon when you need one.

Say what?

Eagar: Well, first you had the impact of the plane, of course, and then this spreading of the fireball all the way across within seconds. Then you had a hot fire, but it wasn't an absolutely uniform fire everywhere. You had a wind blowing, so the smoke was going one way more than another way, which means the heat was going one way more than another way. That caused some of the beams to distort, even at fairly low temperatures. You can permanently distort the beams with a temperature difference of only about 300°F.

Eagar: Exactly. If there was one part of the building in which a beam had a temperature difference of 300°F, then that beam would have become permanently distorted at relatively low temperatures. So instead of being nice and straight, it had a gentle curve. If you press down on a soda straw, you know that if it's perfectly straight, it will support a lot more load than if you start to put a little sideways bend in it. That's what happened in terms of the beams. They were weakened because they were bent by the fire.

Sure seems like Eagar hasn't forgotten the beams from what I'm reading.

But it wouldn't be the first incorrect and spurious claim you've tossed around in here and it's doubtful it wll be the last either.

Now kindly address the issue of butt welds vs. tack welds. Kindly provide proof the beams were butt welded. The picture from OSHA you linked to previously does not provide that proof.

 

[Hutch]

Christophera, I appreciate your comments and corrections. I have but one other thing to add to this thread and will then depart.

You. Are. Completely. Out. Of. Your. Mind.

and I'm gone...

 

[Belz...]

Thanks, I really needed to emphasize the importance of FREE FALL SPEEDS and TOTAL PULVERISATION..

That picture doesn't prove anything about free fall, other than the fact the the debris are, again, falling faster than the rest of the structure. It also proves NOTHING about pulverization, or have you missed my galaxy analogy ?

 

[Christophera]

Say what?
Sure seems like Eagar hasn't forgotten the beams from what I'm reading.

Did eager say "FLOOR BEAMS"? Look at his model.

 

[Christophera]

Notice: Cognitive Distortions At Work

NOTE: I won't say I fully understnad this. I've seen it before and was flabbergasted then. Here, again. WHY? "the rest of the structure" is not falling!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That picture doesn't prove anything about free fall, other than the fact the the debris are, again, falling faster than the the rest of the structure. It also proves NOTHING about pulverization, or have you missed my galaxy analogy ?

Our unconscious truly controls us and attitudes control our perceptions. Belz, this is not a put down. In some ways it shows your sincerity.

 

[Belz...]

Oh, .......... I understand. One of those that sees it as okay to violate laws to subvert the Constitution. I've heard about your kind.

You must be quite fun at parties. Do you EVER answer someone's points ? Or do you change the subject, as you've done here ? DO YOU have evidence of illegality ?

No image of steel core columns from the DEMO at elevation over the ground or feasible, realistic explanation for near free fall and pulverization are forthcoming. Only denial. Completely unreasonable because there is no alternative that is comprehensive to the event.

Until you recognise that your interpretation of the "event" is wrong, how can you possibly hope to have a comprehensive hypothesis ?

At least you are reading now.

Well, at least I read and respond to the posts adressed to me.

It would be nice to have the context so I could correct it.

The little arrow next to your name points to the original message, chris.

Those supporting the official lie/viel hiding murderers produce the cats.

That doesn't make any sense. It either implies that only people covering the official lie CAN post cat images, or that people who post cat images are AUTOMATICALLY considered co-conspirators.

You're weird.

You distort. I said "reason".

I distort nothing. You SAID:

"At least I know, so I'm not ignorant. Now I know you have no reason to care. It explains a lot, thanks."

You assume that, since he's not an American, he can't have, a priori, any reason to care. That is patently false. I don't see why one shouldn't care about the death of 3000 people ANYWHERE in the world.

"all or nothing thinking", "overgeneralizations" = Cognitive distortions. It aids in your dissociation or repression of the distrubing information causing cognitive dissonance.

I assume you have just about as much expertise in psychology as you have in engineering. With that in mind, I'll let that slide.

But mention the frontal lobe of the brain even ONCE, and we'll have a problem.

 

[Belz...]

A classic example of where a demonstraton is totally ignored. Willful ignorance.

That is not a demonstration. That is a picture. The OTHER picture, to which you link everytime you write the word "core", shows a tall, dark structure among the fallen WTC2, which I've said could have been a plume of dust following the collapse. You haven't answered that except with another picture that shows NOTHING of the sort. Who's beign ignorant now ?

 

[Christophera]

Asking for you to provide evidence to back your claim is subversion?

Erroneous premise. You are supporting subversion by accepting lawless performance from government.

No, you just said his post had an error. You did not state what the error was.

Right, and I corrected it.

Arkan_Wolfshade, if your government was infiltrated and turned against the principles of the American republic, would ou be upset?

A high speed series of optimally contained and distributed high explosives.

 

[Christophera]

You must be quite fun at parties. Do you EVER answer someone's points ? Or do you change the subject, as you've done here ? DO YOU have evidence of illegality ?

You will have to evidence the entire exchange to get a response.

 

[Belz...]

The fact that 3,000 Americans have been murdered,

I'm sorry. http://www.september11victims.com/september11victims/COUNTRY_CITIZENSHIP.htm

Sorry, Arkan. I just thought I should mention it a second time. We stand more chance of him reading it that way.

laws violated and the Constitution compromised,

I guess that WOULD be something to act upon, if only you had evidence. Well, on the other hand all this discussion is a good thing: you'll never make the cut as a jury.

2 illegal wars waged

The war in Afghanistan was not illegal. The one in Iraq might well be, but BPSCG would disagree.

Wow. Major distortions of value systems. Must be related to your ability to rant.

Pointing out errors in people's posts is a value system ? Who'd have guessed!??

 

[Belz...]

Our unconscious truly controls us and attitudes control our perceptions.

No, it doesn't. Perhaps it's a good thing that you're NOT a psychologist after all.

Belz, this is not a put down. In some ways it shows your sincerity.

Oh, coming from you any insult is just a comical aside.

If you actually WATCH A VIDEO of WTC2 falling, you might notice that the building is falling down a good deal of time before that picture was taken, and this is even more apparent with WTC1.

 

[Belz...]

You will have to evidence the entire exchange to get a response.

I don't NEED a response. But you should give it to the one who asked the question in the first place.

Erroneous premise. You are supporting subversion by accepting lawless performance from government.

Accepting ? Since when is asking for proof accepting anything ?

A high speed series of optimally contained and distributed high explosives.

Again, what is that picture supposed to prove ?

 

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

Erroneous premise. You are supporting subversion by accepting lawless performance from government.

How the hell can it be erroneous? You are making the claim that the government committed an illegal action. I am asking for evidence to back said claim.

Right, and I corrected it.

Well then, don't make posts like this

Go back to READING 101. Check "diameter", was the issue.

suggesting I misread your post, when, in fact, your were editing it from under me.

A high speed series of optimally contained and distributed high explosives.

No. A picture of the collapse.

Arkan_Wolfshade, if your government was infiltrated and turned against the principles of the American republic, would ou be upset?

Red herring, but I'll bite. If objective, corraboratible, evidence was presented showing unlawful activity, I would exert (if at all possible by following the Rule of Law) effort to bring such activity to light and, if possible, aid in ending the activity.
Presenting incontrovertible proof to media is an excellent way of making people aware. As is informing military personnel, law enforcement, and local leaders.

I would not be posting subjective, uncorraboratible pictures on random web forums.

 

[Christophera]

That is not a demonstration. That is a picture. The OTHER picture, to which you link everytime you write the word "core", shows a tall, dark structure among the fallen WTC2, which I've said could have been a plume of dust following the collapse. You haven't answered that except with another picture that shows NOTHING of the sort. Who's beign ignorant now ?

I've answered with 2 entire web sites, one completely devoted to the concrete core. You, basically have not looked. That is the intellectual dishonesty thing you do.

http://concretecore.741.com/

http://algoxy.com/psych/9-11scenario.html