Deetee
Illuminator
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Actually he is not, as the links that HCN has posted make quite plain.
AIDS: A mother's denial
- Thread starter Chris Haynes
- Start date
Actually he is not, as the links that HCN has posted make quite plain.
hankalme
Student
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- Sep 7, 2005
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- 36
Based on the two paragraphs in in the listing, I have a feeling it will not be hard-hitting examination of Maggiore's odd beliefs...
from the website cited earlier:
Tragedy prompts scrutiny of Los Angeles Coronor's report. What was the impact of the report and what are the implications of the findings of an independent review of the report? Tragically on May 16th, 2005, Eliza Jane Scovill, daughter of Christine Maggiore and Robin Scovill died suddenly at the age of only 3-1/2. On September 4th 2005, a front page story in the LA Times appeared to accept the Los Angeles county coroner’s conclusion that Eliza Jane died of “AIDS-related pneumonia” even before Christine and Robin had received a copy of the coroner’s report. Christine Maggiore has been a major critic of the AIDS establishment for several years. She has been HIV-positive and healthy, without AIDS drugs, for over a decade. This has not endeared her to the many doctors and AIDS activists who promote these drugs, but her experience and research has inspired many HIV-positive people to reconsider their approach to being diagnosed.
Dr. Mohammed A. Al-Bayati, Ph.D., D.A.B.T., D.A.B.V.T., a respected pathologist and a dual board certified toxicologist with over twenty-five years experience and over forty articles published in scientific and medical literature, was asked to review the Los Angeles Coroner’s report. He performed differential diagnosis and concluded that Eliza Jane’s death "was not caused by Pneumocystis carinii Pneumonia or any type of pneumonia. ... Eliza Jane’s death resulted from acute allergic reaction to amoxicillin [a form of penicillin] which caused severe hypotension, shock, and cardiac arrest.”
Dr. Mohammed A. Al-Bayati, Ph.D., D.A.B.T., D.A.B.V.T., a respected pathologist and a dual board certified toxicologist with over twenty-five years experience and over forty articles published in scientific and medical literature, was asked to review the Los Angeles Coroner’s report. He performed differential diagnosis and concluded that Eliza Jane’s death "was not caused by Pneumocystis carinii Pneumonia or any type of pneumonia. ... Eliza Jane’s death resulted from acute allergic reaction to amoxicillin [a form of penicillin] which caused severe hypotension, shock, and cardiac arrest.”
This opinion of the veternary toxicologist that is Al-Bayati has been discussed ad nauseum in several of the blog articles and similar that have been cited upthread.
Cheers,
Hank
Chris Haynes
Perfectly Poisonous Person
Ah. Like comparative anatomy - he can determine whether the cause of death is similar in horse or mouse... whether he's an expert on human physiology and aids related death are another matter, unless he's dissected a lot of cats with Feline Leukemia.
Rolfe
Adult human female
Sorry, veterinary pathology person here. No matter how good you are on comparative pathology, you may only speculate about human medicine. I've encountered a lot of FeLV, and that means I know diddly-squat about human leukaemia. Even FIV, the actual feline analogue of HIV, isn't that similar. You may express doubts. You may advance alternative hypotheses. What you cannot do is flatly contradict the human pathologists who actually dealt with the case.
Rolfe.
Rolfe.
Thanks! I bow to the expert.
It's really funny what people will construe as authority on a matter without question. The "Pathology" PhD even in comparative animal pathology is apparently enough for some, regardless of its misapplication to a human paediatric case examined afterward only through records...
I wonder if a pathologist can be sued for malpractice?
Rolfe
Adult human female
I would doubt it. If he's not a doctor, you can't get him for medical malpractice. Even if he is a vet, he wasn't acting as a vet when he gave this opinion, so the veterinary authorities may not be over-keen to get involved.I wonder if a pathologist can be sued for malpractice?
Might be the same as the Chemsol "bacteriologist" whom nobody can touch because he isn't a member of any professional body that could chuck him out, and his lab has no accreditation to remove, and it was only the newspapers who dubbed him "the UK's leading MRSA expert".
Rolfe.
Roadtoad
Bufo Caminus Inedibilis
Good God. Maggiore hasn't even enough sense to see an actual pathologist!?!?
Why, in God's name, do we ever let such people breed...?
Why, in God's name, do we ever let such people breed...?
Well, I did post to the older thread, and have missed this one, thinking it WAS the older thread.
I see there's been new developements.
I do know HOW HIV works....in pretty good detail, as far as the science understands things. What we don't know is why it switches into production mode in some humans faster than others. Rolfe is right, BTW. Comparative anatomy, while an interesting subject, only gets you so far. A PhD, eh? I doubt he'd even be eligible to be a vet, let alone an MD, but I could be wrong on that count.
Can't we say that claiming soemthing you're not is fraud?
Anyway, when your beliefs constitute a clear and present danger to other people, your right to the belief is considered secondary to the general welfare. After all, you don't see many public virgin sacrifices, do you?
Oh, in case I forget to mention, this woman is a f'ckin idiot. Sorry if this offends any sensitive types out there, but I said in the old forum that I'm not dealing with the kid gloves anymore when it comes to these people. She's a f'ckin idiot and she murdered her child. Close enough to make no nevermind to me, anyway.
The DA in her county/state should also be brought up for not doing his job. Why the hell is this utter idiot walking free? Arrest her for negligence.
Maybe I ought to go to Law school.....
I see there's been new developements.
I do know HOW HIV works....in pretty good detail, as far as the science understands things. What we don't know is why it switches into production mode in some humans faster than others. Rolfe is right, BTW. Comparative anatomy, while an interesting subject, only gets you so far. A PhD, eh? I doubt he'd even be eligible to be a vet, let alone an MD, but I could be wrong on that count.
Can't we say that claiming soemthing you're not is fraud?
Anyway, when your beliefs constitute a clear and present danger to other people, your right to the belief is considered secondary to the general welfare. After all, you don't see many public virgin sacrifices, do you?
Oh, in case I forget to mention, this woman is a f'ckin idiot. Sorry if this offends any sensitive types out there, but I said in the old forum that I'm not dealing with the kid gloves anymore when it comes to these people. She's a f'ckin idiot and she murdered her child. Close enough to make no nevermind to me, anyway.
The DA in her county/state should also be brought up for not doing his job. Why the hell is this utter idiot walking free? Arrest her for negligence.
Maybe I ought to go to Law school.....
Eos of the Eons
Mad Scientist
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- Jul 23, 2003
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I feel, with beliefs, that people are protecting their own interests. They don't want their beliefs...even if they kill people with them, trampled on, so they tiptoe around these tragedies.
When will we be able to say "You killed someone with your stupidity, you will have to pay for it."?
We see parents in a land of plenty starving their kids (and killing them with preventable diseases-AZT would have saved that girl from even getting HIV if her mom wasn't listening to crazily incompetent "experts") with ignorant ideas about diets without taking into consideration what their child's body actually needs for good health.
I am looking RIGHT NOW at a flyer that landed on MY doorstep TODAY.
It claims that a raw food diet (of course no meat or meat byproducts) will:
They advise the same for your pets.
They say watch out for the following "NASTY SUBSTANCES" in pet food
People WANT THE RIGHT to sell you a crap philosophy in order to line their pockets by selling you garbage they claim will change your life around.
So a few people die along the way. THEIR BELIEFS matter MORE.
These philosophies and belief systems rely on modernized scapegoats like "mainstream medicine" and "bad processed food" to promote theirs as the answer to all your supposed problems. I find THAT a red flag with these flyers and HIV deniers. They all have their scapegoats.
Maggiore will use mainstream medicine and the supposed killer antibiotics as her scapegoat. The facts be damned. She will get away with bringing a child into the world and not protecting that child from a disease she gave her child by recklessly disregarding readily available prentative measures. She will get away with murder..
When will we live in a world where facts matter more than beliefs?
When will we be able to say "You killed someone with your stupidity, you will have to pay for it."?
We see parents in a land of plenty starving their kids (and killing them with preventable diseases-AZT would have saved that girl from even getting HIV if her mom wasn't listening to crazily incompetent "experts") with ignorant ideas about diets without taking into consideration what their child's body actually needs for good health.
I am looking RIGHT NOW at a flyer that landed on MY doorstep TODAY.
It claims that a raw food diet (of course no meat or meat byproducts) will:
They advise the same for your pets.
They say watch out for the following "NASTY SUBSTANCES" in pet food
People WANT THE RIGHT to sell you a crap philosophy in order to line their pockets by selling you garbage they claim will change your life around.
So a few people die along the way. THEIR BELIEFS matter MORE.
These philosophies and belief systems rely on modernized scapegoats like "mainstream medicine" and "bad processed food" to promote theirs as the answer to all your supposed problems. I find THAT a red flag with these flyers and HIV deniers. They all have their scapegoats.
Maggiore will use mainstream medicine and the supposed killer antibiotics as her scapegoat. The facts be damned. She will get away with bringing a child into the world and not protecting that child from a disease she gave her child by recklessly disregarding readily available prentative measures. She will get away with murder..
When will we live in a world where facts matter more than beliefs?
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Roadtoad
Bufo Caminus Inedibilis
[derail]Actually, Eos, some of that in pet food should be avoided.
Remember: I used to work in the rendering industry. "Animal fat" listed without specifying the source mean it could have come from any animal. (This includes roadkill and household pets who were unlucky enough to be caught by Animal Control officers and not reclaimed by their owners.)
"Meal" is meat and bone meal from same. "Egg Products" includes the shells and the like.
I realize that a lot of producers are getting away from using that sort of thing, what with concerns about BSE and such, but there's a lot of them that aren't. The key is to be aware. I know in the wild, animals eat that sort of thing, but we're learning that there's better ways of doing things.
Still, it's going to be a while before I start eating raw meat, fresh from the abbetoir floor.[/derail]
Remember: I used to work in the rendering industry. "Animal fat" listed without specifying the source mean it could have come from any animal. (This includes roadkill and household pets who were unlucky enough to be caught by Animal Control officers and not reclaimed by their owners.)
"Meal" is meat and bone meal from same. "Egg Products" includes the shells and the like.
I realize that a lot of producers are getting away from using that sort of thing, what with concerns about BSE and such, but there's a lot of them that aren't. The key is to be aware. I know in the wild, animals eat that sort of thing, but we're learning that there's better ways of doing things.
Still, it's going to be a while before I start eating raw meat, fresh from the abbetoir floor.[/derail]
Eos of the Eons
Mad Scientist
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Roadkill and loose pets are not processed into animal feed. Name one company that tracks down roadkill to process/or goes to animal shelters to collect hapless pets.
Bone meal and egg shells have a lot of cacium, no?
There's nothing there that the animals wouldn't LOVE to eat if they came across it.
You believe any of that would harm your pet?
Bone meal and egg shells have a lot of cacium, no?
There's nothing there that the animals wouldn't LOVE to eat if they came across it.
You believe any of that would harm your pet?
Roadtoad
Bufo Caminus Inedibilis
Check your pm box in a couple of minutes...
Roadtoad
Bufo Caminus Inedibilis
Did you get the info, Eos? Just curious.
Eos of the Eons
Mad Scientist
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http://www.dvdtalk.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-385077.html
I found the article online, "as written by John Eckhouse, Chronicle Staff Writer"
I cannot find anything else written by this guy, and cannot verify it is true.
Snopes discussion:
http://msgboard.snopes.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=24;t=001315;p=0
Needless to say...thank you, but I am skeptical pets end up in Pet Food. If roadkill ends up in pet food, then I don't know if that bothers me so much. The animals are are a "natural food source" for wild dogs.
Heck, we do know coyote diets around here are 70% cat. Animals do eat each other. It would bother me that euthanized pets were rounded up for pet food though.
And I still don't see how this harms pets if other sources of roadkill end up as food. Dogs love to eat rotten fish even...my dog LOVED to roll all over dead fish when she found one. Talk about the worst stink in the world. Wet dog rolled in decayed fish. UGHHGHGH
Raw food diet for pets? Sure, they love raw meat-bonemeal-garbage, but I'm disgusted these people scapegoat commercial pet food.
Animals need a diet with fat and bone. That's natural to them. It's not hurting them.
Meat products also don't make humans smelly. HIV does cause AIDS.
I found the article online, "as written by John Eckhouse, Chronicle Staff Writer"
I cannot find anything else written by this guy, and cannot verify it is true.
Snopes discussion:
http://msgboard.snopes.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=24;t=001315;p=0
Needless to say...thank you, but I am skeptical pets end up in Pet Food. If roadkill ends up in pet food, then I don't know if that bothers me so much. The animals are are a "natural food source" for wild dogs.
Heck, we do know coyote diets around here are 70% cat. Animals do eat each other. It would bother me that euthanized pets were rounded up for pet food though.
And I still don't see how this harms pets if other sources of roadkill end up as food. Dogs love to eat rotten fish even...my dog LOVED to roll all over dead fish when she found one. Talk about the worst stink in the world. Wet dog rolled in decayed fish. UGHHGHGH
Raw food diet for pets? Sure, they love raw meat-bonemeal-garbage, but I'm disgusted these people scapegoat commercial pet food.
Animals need a diet with fat and bone. That's natural to them. It's not hurting them.
Meat products also don't make humans smelly. HIV does cause AIDS.
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Rolfe
Adult human female
I know there was a long discussion about this on a veterinary email list I'm part of. A lot of evidence was produced to refute the assertions by sections of the media that pets may end up in pet food. A particular concern is that many pets are killed by injection of barbiturates, because this is a very humane method. However, barbiturates are something you do not want in anybody's food!
There are exeptions of course. I recall a case of a couple of greyhouds who collapsed in a coma, and we found surprisingly large amounts of a very particular barbiturate which is licensed for use in euthanasia of horses in their blood samples. Someone had disposed of a carcass of a horse that had been put down that way to the kennels, which is completely irresponsible. Only horses which have been shot should be used for dog food.
I can't go back and dredge up the references now, but the indications were that barring the very occasional rogue incident, roadkill and pet carcasses are incinerated, or occasionally rendered into fertiliser.
Rolfe.
There are exeptions of course. I recall a case of a couple of greyhouds who collapsed in a coma, and we found surprisingly large amounts of a very particular barbiturate which is licensed for use in euthanasia of horses in their blood samples. Someone had disposed of a carcass of a horse that had been put down that way to the kennels, which is completely irresponsible. Only horses which have been shot should be used for dog food.
I can't go back and dredge up the references now, but the indications were that barring the very occasional rogue incident, roadkill and pet carcasses are incinerated, or occasionally rendered into fertiliser.
Rolfe.
Fat Bottom Gurl
Hot Tub Hottie
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- Jul 1, 2004
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- 534
Hi Eos:
Not that pet food companies track down road kill or dead pets, it's where they buy their raw materials from....rendering plants. Rendering plants process 4-D animals (dead, dying, diseased and disabled). The end product goes into pet foods.
There's various discussions about what exactly goes into pet foods. Short of actually working at a pet food plant and having access to where the raw materials come from, who really knows?
Labels on pet foods - the manufacturer only has to state what they put into the bag. They don't have to state what goes on at the rendering plant.
There used to be a site available that spoke about how pet food was manufactured, but the link is gone, or I would have posted it. Maybe they couldn't back up their claims (shrug).
One would hope that euthanized animals go for fertilizer only.
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Chris Haynes
Perfectly Poisonous Person
I was thinking about this in regards to another thread when I decided to look up Maggiore's book on Amazon.
I see it that a new edition is being published next fall. It should be interesting what kind of changes are in it since half of her children are no longer "Alive and Well".
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0967415322/104-4675689-5931133
I see it that a new edition is being published next fall. It should be interesting what kind of changes are in it since half of her children are no longer "Alive and Well".
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0967415322/104-4675689-5931133
Ausmerican
Illuminator
- Joined
- Dec 17, 2004
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- 3,490
As far as I know (wife is a neonatal intensive care RN) here in Arizona they can get a fast tracked court order to give a blood transfusion to babies of JW's when it's a life or death situation. Not sure about other types of religious woo but I would think the same applies.
Define "religious woo" in those circumstances. Hard, I guess. But if certain parents have no rational reason for denying medical treatments then would that not qualify as a decision on faith only? And isn't "faith" one of the basic defining factors of a religion?