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The Gospel

I should think verses from a sacred text would be highly relevant to an analysis of the distinctions between one religion and another. Or so I seem to recall from comparative religion class. Why exclude Bible verses?

Kmortis* answered this better than I could, but I would add that a comparison of KK’s Christianism and Cargo would be difficult using texts, because few texts exist for Cargo. The tradition was and still is essentially oral.

Also, I fear that I wrote with exasperation in my heart. I’m tired of bad sermonizing and the spouting of gospel to no effect. I’d like to reach KK’s real mind.

*With whom I will try not to mess, amen.
 
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Kathy's true self. Brainless hellspawn.

That's as close to you get to her real mind, bubba. It's all preaching.
 
If she was being asked to defend that Frumism isn't compatable with Christianity, then quoting scripture would be not only welcome, but necessary. However, she's being asked for an opinion on another religion, with the prohibition included becuse it's been seen in hte past that she has a hard time actually forming a cogent thought without resorting to quoting the bible. It's rather obvious what the Bible has to say about Frumism (it's against it), but the question was asked of KK, not the Bible.

Although we needn't care what the Bible has to say about the merits of biblical religion versus cargo cultism, Kathy was not asked for a general judgment about the Frum movement. She was asked to demonstrate differences between that movement and, in particular (though not exclusively), Christianity. If the request related only to matters of form, or otherwise excluded matters of theological content, then it should be clarified. Theological content is obviously a potential area of contrast between any two religions, and much of the theological content of Christianity is contained in the Bible. [ETA: Cargo's is oral, of course, yet that doesn't mean they can't be compared. But we might as well say "contrast Cargo with religion X while avoiding any reference to the content of Cargo's sacred oral traditions."]
 
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All I meant to do was challenge KK, or anybody else, to distinguish in purely descriptive terms between the truth of one cult and another.

In the Smithsonian article, I confess that I like the last word the old Frum preacher gets in: Christians have been waiting for 2,000 years, Frumists only for 60. What's the hurry?
 
All I meant to do was challenge KK, or anybody else, to distinguish in purely descriptive terms between the truth of one cult and another.

Well that's problematic because it requires some sort of definition for the word "cult" as well as criteria to identify whether one religion is a cult or not.

Islam is usually not considered a cult. However, practicing Islam in America is a lot different than practicing Islam in Afghanistan. Islam becomes much more of a cult for the latter case.

Christianity, by its very basic premise and doctrines, is not cultish. However, by systematically crystallizing doctrines and implementing certain rules, Christianity becomes a cult (Mormonism and especially Jehova's Witness).

The very defintion of cults implies that their specific truths are not to be questioned by their adherents. The reason for this, is that by their very nature, cults are based on premises easily refutable using reason, logic, and access to various sources of information. Therefore, cults suppress critical thinking using mind control exercises and activities, isolate their adherents from conflicting information using fear and intimidation, demonize non-adherents, and purposely distorts any facts that can show how fake the cult's beliefs are.

Christianity does not need to be TOO cult like because the basic tenets of its belief system were developed centuries ago interwoven with historical events. Yes, Christians exhibit some of the characteristics I've mentioned, but to a moderate degree when compared to other more real cults. Sure, the Bible has unlikely stories and questionable doctrines. But it is old and has been widely accepted thanks to some geographical and cultural conditions. We can't talk to the authors, much less verify who was doing the writing.

However, Dianetics is MUCH MORE questionable, given not only its premises, but also the verifiable accounts of its author, L. Ron Hubbard. Therefore, Scientology HAS TO be very cult like to keep people believers, with some but ever diminishing success.

The truth in the cult lies in its tenets. But not only what it says, but how long ago it first said it. New religions need more cult like qualities to retain believers because the level of scrutiny is greater and more sophisticated than in ancient times. It is no wonder that the largest religions are quite old and well timed in history.

Hinduism needed Asoka to survive. Christianity needed Paul and a Byzantine Empire to fully develop and spread. Islam needed Umar and a weakening Roman Empire to flourish.

How many perhaps superior religions were ill timed or placed, like Ba'hai?

Just because a religion is less cult like doesn't mean it is more true. And just because a religion is older doesn't mean it is more true.

The truth of the cult/religion lies in the claims. Ancient religions can hide their claims in antiquity and recent cults hide their claims through fear/intimidation/mind control/isolation/deception.
 
And according to your logic, because SO MANY PEOPLE are Christian, maybe that is evidence that Christianity is the true religion.
But christianity, while popular in this country, isn't the majority religion on Earth. By this logic, whichever religion IS the majority religion (Islam? Hinduism? Buddhism? - I honestly don't know) must the the true religion.

(I recognize you're playing devil's advocate here, SCG, but I fear that kk may not be capable of recognizing that fact, in which case you might be inadvertently giving her what she thinks of as ammunition on her side.)
 
(I recognize you're playing devil's advocate here, SCG, but I fear that kk may not be capable of recognizing that fact, in which case you might be inadvertently giving her what she thinks of as ammunition on her side.)

I'm playing devil's advocate by supporting KK . . . . . .






:)
 
But christianity, while popular in this country, isn't the majority religion on Earth. By this logic, whichever religion IS the majority religion (Islam? Hinduism? Buddhism? - I honestly don't know) must the the true religion.

Actually, numerically, Christianity is indeed the majority religion on earth. But that's all branches lumped in together, and the differences between some species of Christianity are sufficiently vast that calling them the same religion is gettin' a little shaky (at least if you want to base your notion of a "true religion" on it!) For example, Mormons and Roman Catholics and Southern Baptists and Christian Scientists are all lumped in together, so does our hypothetical true religion include confession, Joseph Smith, funny underwear, snake handling and not getting blood transfusions?

Whether the largest slice of the Christian pie--probably Catholicism--outnumbers the next runner up, Islam, I don't know.


http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html
 
Depending on which part of the Bible you're looking at, they are indeed less Christian for doing that stuff.

Just cause lots of people do certain things doesn't make it okay, from a religious persepctive, or qualify as beneficial to mankind.

And according to your logic, because SO MANY PEOPLE are Christian, maybe that is evidence that Christianity is the true religion.

See my point: it goes both ways.

Christians, like KK, think they are right despite the evidence because so many others have experienced positive things upon embracing Christianity. Based on one's personal experience, you can believe and validate whatever you want. Press them for evidence, and they use those experiences or other peoples similar experiences as proof. (Look at KK's post if you don't believe me).

So, Sackett, when you asked KK for evidence without preaching or using Biblical verses, what will she use? Personal experience.

I, and others, have tried to show KK that using personal experience as evidence can go anyway you want it to. But that point has never popped into KK's mind as evidenced by her posts thus far.

And until that point is brought home, I fear that she'll continue along this form of dialogue or "debate", so to speak.

That's why I responded to you the way I did, because if I didn't, she would, and around and around we'll go.
Well it is definite that I have had an encounter with my creator which many of you choose not to believe. However it would be impossible for any of you to prove that I didn't. And because of this encounter my life has made a complete u-turn for the better. God has done and is doing things in my life because I have chose to believe Him. Until one gets to a place in their heart where they might be empty or open to hear from God, it seems to me nothing changes. I am here to tell you I am not the same person I use to be. Jesus has and is changing me!
There is evidence all around this world of Jesus Christ, all one needs to do is ask that He would reveal Himself. I am sure you can find Him too if you truely asked. In my case though He definitely found me.

Here's another interesting article from Hank on the evidence of Christ's resurrection...http://www.equip.org/free/CP0106.htm
 
There is evidence all around this world of Jesus Christ...


At last! Please present this evidence. We've only been asking you for it for the last 8 months.


ETA:

Who am I kidding. You won't do anything but preach. You are incapable of actually discussing anything with rationality and reason. here's a kitten:

Giselle%20Chocolate%20Ceres%20with%20kitten.JPG
 
At last! Please present this evidence. We've only been asking you for it for the last 8 months.
The Lord is in His temple. Don't you know where Jesus told us He abides?

1 Corinthians 3:16-17
Do you not know that you are a temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?
If any man destroys the temple of God, God will destroy him, for the temple of God is holy, and that is what you are.

Every believer who receives Christ as their Lord and Savior receives the Spirit of truth.

1 Corinthians 6:19
Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own?
 
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The Lord is in His temple. Don't you know where Jesus told us He abides?

1 Corinthians 3:16-17
Do you not know that you are a temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?
If any man destroys the temple of God, God will destroy him, for the temple of God is holy, and that is what you are.


Yeah yeah. Build a little birdhouse in your soul. Heard it all before. Still not evidence.
 
Yeah yeah. Build a little birdhouse in your soul. Heard it all before. Still not evidence.
Well I would just like it if you would think a little about this scripture that really does say it pretty directly if you ask me...
John 12:44-48 And Jesus cried out and said,"He who believes in Me does not believe in Me, but in Him who sent Me. And he who beholds Me beholds the One who sent Me. I have come as light into the world, that everyone who believes in Me may not remain in darkness. And if anyone hears my sayings, and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world. He who rejects Me and does not receive my sayings, has One who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day.
 
Well I would just like it if you would think a little about this scripture that really does say it pretty directly if you ask me...
John 12:44-48 And Jesus cried out and said,"He who believes in Me does not believe in Me, but in Him who sent Me. And he who beholds Me beholds the One who sent Me. I have come as light into the world, that everyone who believes in Me may not remain in darkness. And if anyone hears my sayings, and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world. He who rejects Me and does not receive my sayings, has One who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day.


Thank you for proving my previous statement:

Who am I kidding. You won't do anything but preach. You are incapable of actually discussing anything with rationality and reason.

Now, when will you learn that the bible is not evidence of anything but mythology?

You're not special because your sky daddy loves you. When you die, you will just be dead and cease to exist.

Get over yourself. Learn some critical thinking skills, take an english class and for once actually try to digest what you read posted in response to you.
 
I had no idea that the number was any where near that large but it seems that you are roughly correct. According to this site 100,000,000 or so might be more like the average number. Perhaps you were using your personal totals though.

http://www.netdoctor.co.uk/menshealth/facts/semenandsperm.htm

I'm female...and that is the count you give is for American men on average--(it's been going down--)

The 230,000,000 was from Steve Jones Book, the decent of Y. It's a fantastic book in regard to genetics, testosterone, and the Y chromosome. I haven't really counted the little tadpoles myself... of course recent emissions lower counts and teen boys are higher... but my point was simply that nature is very excessive and wasteful on a grand scale--
 
This is an excellent point and one that is easy to gloss over.

Don't people of every religion (or most religions) claim to hear god, by either actually physically hearing him or receiving some sort of revelation from him? If there is only one god, are we to assume that he only talks to those who believe in him, ie. christians? Who is talking to all of those other people? They would swear that it's their god, not kathy's, that talks to them. Why are we supposed to believe that the christians are actually hearing god, while all of the others are mistaken or perhaps even psychotic?

I think about this a lot. I mean there are actually a lot of schizophrenics who believe they ARE God, Jesus, messiahs, prophets. Usually they are men. The females are more likely to think that the Devil is talking to them or their possessed, but a lot of them hear "god" in their head. And sometimes I wonder if Jesus (presuming he existed at all) was a schizophrenic. He lived in a culture that believed in demigods-- I wonder how many people who start religions have diagnosible mental disorders--be it sociopathy, religious ecstacy via siezures, shizophrenia, confabulation, etc. And some just seem to do it for fun--to see if they can--like L. Ron Hubbard.

Feelings, beliefs, holy texts, and church leaders seem to be a really bad avenue for finding truth. I've heard of several mental institutions that have several "gods"--which I find amusing...it would be a great documentary.
 

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