Is there anything skeptics can't reduce

[Belz...]

But then I'm afraid we'd all be good little robots and there would be nothing to learn.

Again, this doesn't follow. I KNOW for a fact my biological parents exist. Yet I'm under no obligation to do anything about it. Knowledge is power, not the reverse.

Why does the rest of the world (nature) not need to know about it? Look at our closest "relatives," the apes? Maybe it's just me, but I can't conceive of them postulating the need for a Creator. They seem to be perfectly content with what nature has given them ... otherwise they probably would have developed their own dialect by now and complaining about it just as much as we do.

So... the fact that less-intelligent species do not speak to you about their existent or non-existent religious beliefs is evidence of God's existence ???

 

[Belz...]

Everyone claims to tell the truth when they speak of such things. At most, only ONE person can be right. At most.

No.

What do you mean, "no" ? How can MORE than one interpretation be right about this ?

 

[Belz...]

I should be used to it by now, but it still surprises me when people use as the foundation for their belief system, something of which they are completely ignorant. Like my sis-in-law and the bible, or Iacchus and dreams.

My mother believes in the bible, litterally. Not that she's ever read it, of course.

 

[Belz...]

I understand that the Jewish Oral Tradition was quite strict, and required a lot of discipline. Not just anyone was allowed to "repeat" the stories.

Yeah, right. Of course, at which point did this happen, exactly ?

 

[Belz...]

No, our perception of God is relative, just as it is relative with anything else. Or, would you have us all believe that the Universe which, each of us perceives differently, is merely a figment of our imagination?

No... that's YOUR belief.

No, I don't claim to be an historian but, I do understand there are folks out there who understand how important it is to get the story straight. In which case I think it would be unfair to pass the whole thing off as some sort of "telephone game."

Well, how do you explain two flood myths and two creation myths in the same book ?

 

[Belz...]

Another spin on the wheel, shall we?

No, thanks.

I thought so. Just run away when pressed for evidence, crusader-man.

In that scenario, there are more tests coming.

I hope none of the questions relate to something that is self-contradictory in the reference material. Otherwise we're all doomed.

 

[Iacchus]

Actually, no. Just because one person regards it as necessary to get the story straight does not mean that the story will be gotten straight. Of course it would be unfair to pass it off as a "telephone game" without any evidence that it was a telephone game -- but we have ample evidence of story transmission and manipulation, both in the Old Testament (e.g. the different creation narratives in Genesis) and in the New (the relationship and mutual contradictions among the synoptic gospels).

A lot words to transcibe. We're lucky to have gotten any of it in tact. Yet it does more or less appear to be in tact. Of course if we're merely searching for the history, instead of the mystery, we may never understand what it was about. It's sort of like this brain versus the mind thing ... Is there in fact a genuine mystery behind the mind or, is it all tied up in the history of the brain? This is why it almost induces me to puke whenever someone insists on expressing it in terms of the brain only. We are in fact castrating our humanness when we do this.

 

[drkitten]

A lot words to transcibe. We're lucky to have gotten any of it in tact. Yet it does more or less appear to be in tact.

No, it doesn't. Within the manuscripts we are lucky enough to have, we've got ample evidence that the stories are not, in fact, intact.

This is part of the reason that no one takes your philosophical musings seriously, Iacchus. When you make statements that can be checked, you tend to get them wrong. This seriously detracts from your credibility when you then use those wrong statements as the basis for your untestable speculations.

 

[ImaginalDisc]

In that scenario, there are more tests coming.

That doesn't answer the question. What's the lesson we're supposed to learn? How can an absentee teacher punish those who fail to understand a lesson which has not been taught?

How is taking a test, and suffering the consquences forever, a "lesson"? It's pointless to teach something if you don't give anyone a chance to change.

 

[Iacchus]

Yeah, right. Of course, at which point did this happen, exactly ?

It's too bad I can't find that piece somebody wrote about it on another forum way back when. But if I could, you would probably be less inclined to scoff.

 

[Nyarlathotep]

A lot words to transcibe. We're lucky to have gotten any of it in tact. Yet it does more or less appear to be in tact. Of course if we're merely searching for the history, instead of the mystery, we may never understand what it was about. It's sort of like this brain versus the mind thing ... Is there in fact a genuine mystery behind the mind or, is it all tied up in the history of the brain? This is why it almost induces me to puke whenever someone insists on expressing it in terms of the brain only. We are in fact castrating our humanness when we do this.

You're doing it again

Why would a Wookiee, an eight-foot tall Wookiee, want to live on Endor, with a bunch of two-foot tall Ewoks? That does not make sense! But more important, you have to ask yourself: What does this have to do with this case? Nothing. Ladies and gentlemen, it has nothing to do with this case! It does not make sense! Look at me. I'm a lawyer defending a major record company, and I'm talkin' about Chewbacca! Does that make sense? Ladies and gentlemen, I am not making any sense! None of this makes sense! And so you have to remember, when you're in that jury room deliberatin' and conjugatin' the Emancipation Proclamation, [approaches and softens] does it make sense? No! Ladies and gentlemen of this supposed jury, it does not make sense! If Chewbacca lives on Endor, you must acquit! The defense rests.

 

[Nyarlathotep]

It's too bad I can't find that piece somebody wrote about it on another forum way back when. But if I could, you would probably be less inclined to scoff.

And if I could only find that copy of the will Howard Hughes wrote, leaving his vast fortune to me, people wouldn't scoff at me, either.

 

[Iacchus]

How is taking a test, and suffering the consquences forever, a "lesson"? It's pointless to teach something if you don't give anyone a chance to change.

Are you suggesting people are incapable of change, with or without a God? Why should God have to make it so blatantly obvious, and less subject to interpretation? Life is a test, for all of us.

 

[Iacchus]

You're doing it again

And you are no doubt speaking from your own ignorance.

 

[Iacchus]

And if I could only find that copy of the will Howard Hughes wrote, leaving his vast fortune to me, people wouldn't scoff at me, either.

And you should be very careful when try to undermine someone else's intent. I honestly did try to find this.

 

[ImaginalDisc]

Are you suggesting people are incapable of change, with or without a God? Why should God have to make it so blatantly obvious, and less subject to interpretation? Life is a test, for all of us.

Iacchus, according to the Bible, it's a test you take after you die. Then you're judged, and punished with eternal suffering for getting it wrong. I don't see any opportunities for change there.

 

[Nyarlathotep]

And you are no doubt speaking from your own ignorance.

And you are, no doubt, trying to substitute a bunch of mystical sounding piffle for ideas that will actually withstand scrutiny.

 

[Iacchus]

So... the fact that less-intelligent species do not speak to you about their existent or non-existent religious beliefs is evidence of God's existence ???

It seems to be a specific human peculiarity does it not?

 

[Tricky]

So, you wrote the schedule?

If God (as he is described by Christians) wanted to talk to me, He could. Why should I take someone else's word for it when He could easily deliver it himself? I distrust anyone who begins a discussion with the equivalent of, "God told me to tell you..."

 

[Nyarlathotep]

And you should be very careful when try to undermine someone else's intent. I honestly did try to find this.

Like it or not, honestly trying to find evidence <> evidence.