Split Thread Islamic takeover

[Ziggurat]

If the Muslim population grows, as Trausti implies it will, it means that the children of Muslims will be born and grow up in Spain, and many of them will be Spanish citizens.

That doesn't mean they will be assimilated. That doesn't mean they will adopt Spanish values and culture.

 

[AmyStrange]

That doesn't mean they will be assimilated. That doesn't mean they will adopt Spanish values and culture.

Why not?

 

[The Great Zaganza]

because plenty of people are trying to prevent it despite the migrants' best efforts.
If the "I'm not Racists" would actually be interested in integration/assimilation, they would put a fraction of the resources into assisting that instead of pouring it all into deportation.

 

[sinnikal]

That doesn't mean they will be assimilated. That doesn't mean they will adopt Spanish values and culture.

What are Spanish values and culture?
I live about the furthest possible from abooga and there's really not much in common between the values and culture in the Basque country and Andalucía (Al-Andalus*). It's almost a different language we speak down here. Much more like South American Spanish.


* The clue is in the name. And the architecture.

 

[Lukraak_Sisser]

A quick google search shows that about 250 people were killed in spain by Muslim terrorism, with most in the train bombing in 2004.
So they need to at least triple that number to get to the deaths ETA terrorists caused.
With the added provision that the Muslim terrorists mainly intended to alter Spain's foreign policy, whereas ETA intends to destroy the Spanish state and rip a large part of it's land out of the country, with no clear indication what will happen to the non Basques should they get their wish.

Just facts.

 

[Ziggurat]

What are Spanish values and culture?

If Spain has no common values and culture, then there's nothing to unify it as a nation, nothing to protect, and nothing to lose if it fractures. If you tell me that's the case, I'm willing to believe you.

 

[Ziggurat]

Why not?

Because citizenship is merely a technical legal designation, and it doesn't depend on your values or culture.

If you want to argue that they will assimilate, go ahead and make the argument. But saying someone is a citizen of a country absolutely and obviously doesn't demonstrate assimilation. I don't know why you are confused about that.

 

[Helen]

That doesn't mean they will be assimilated. That doesn't mean they will adopt Spanish values and culture.

Nor does it mean they won't. But i am curious, assimilated? How exactly would you define that? We have loads of immigrants here, and while a majority of them adapt well, they are still from different cultures, but that's not a problem, quite the opposite - it was always thus; migration shaped our world, and as long as the migrants adheres to our laws, and there is mutual respect, why should we be scared of them? Some immigrants commit crimes, and so do Swedes, but most people do not.

You seem to think that there is some kind of monolith [country]ish culture. That is not true - @sinnikal described Spain, and even in my country of only 10 million people, there are wildly varying cultures (the North is very different from the South). So what is Swedish or Spanish, when it has always changed? When should we have stopped changing? 1950? 1890? And who decides? The far right and I have vastly different ideas about what it is to be Swedish. Many of the Muslims have far greater respect for our democracy than the Islamophobes.

 

[AmyStrange]

Because citizenship is merely a technical legal designation, and it doesn't depend on your values or culture.

If you want to argue that they will assimilate, go ahead and make the argument. But saying someone is a citizen of a country absolutely and obviously doesn't demonstrate assimilation. I don't know why you are confused about that.

Why not?

BTW, you're the one making the assertion and not me.

 

[Ziggurat]

Why not?

BTW, you're the one making the assertion and not me.

You are confused. Helen made the assertion that Citizenship did mean assimilation. And nothing backs that up.

 

[AmyStrange]

You are confused. Helen made the assertion that Citizenship did mean assimilation. And nothing backs that up.

You seem to be the one confused because I'm just asking questions, and your non-answers just don't add up.

 

[Mojo]

Because citizenship is merely a technical legal designation, and it doesn't depend on your values or culture.

If you want to argue that they will assimilate, go ahead and make the argument. But saying someone is a citizen of a country absolutely and obviously doesn't demonstrate assimilation. I don't know why you are confused about that.

We need to ensure that all citizens think in the same way.

 

[P.J. Denyer]

Now now, great replacement can work. Europeans managed it in America, the local population is mostly gone and shoved into a few reservations.

That's different.. Because, reasons...

 

[Mojo]

If Spain has no common values and culture, then there's nothing to unify it as a nation, nothing to protect, and nothing to lose if it fractures. If you tell me that's the case, I'm willing to believe you.

Because citizenship is merely a technical legal designation, and it doesn't depend on your values or culture.

 

[Ziggurat]

We need to ensure that all citizens think in the same way.

Are you under the impression that having shared culture and values means total uniformity? It does not.

 

[Mojo]

Helen made the assertion that Citizenship did mean assimilation.

[citation needed]

 

[Mojo]

Are you under the impression that having shared culture and values means total uniformity?

No, you are.

 

[AmyStrange]

If Spain has no common values and culture, then there's nothing to unify it as a nation, nothing to protect, and nothing to lose if it fractures. If you tell me that's the case, I'm willing to believe you.

Well, there is the fact that they are all human, but I guess that's not enough for some people.

 

[Mojo]

Well, there is the fact that they are all human, but I guess that's not enough for some people.

It's not a fact for some people.

 

[The Great Zaganza]

try to find some common values and culture in contemporary USA.