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Ed Israel/US Attacks Iran /Yet Another Country/Iran

aaand... we are down another irreplaceable plane.

B 52 bomber crashes after takeoff at St. Edwards.

www.latimes.com

'We lost eight great Americans’ in fiery B-52 bomber crash, Air Force colonel says

All eight people aboard the U.S. Air Force B-52 bomber plane that crashed at Edwards Air Force Base in California are presumed dead. Officials say the crash occurred during a "routine test mission."
www.latimes.com www.latimes.com

I don't think any US President has lost that many planes in the first 2 years of his term since WW2.
(Might be wrong about Korea/Vietnam).

 
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The Great Zaganza said:
I don't think any US President has lost that many planes in the first 2 years of his term since WW2.
(Might be wrong about Korea/Vietnam).
Click to expand...
We lost over 2700 aircraft in Korea. We lost over 10,000 aircraft in Vietnam. You aren't a little bit wrong about those, you're laughably wrong.

More recently, the coalition lost 75 aircraft during the 1st Gulf war, most of them US. And why the "first 2 years of his term" qualifier? H.W. Bush lost more aircraft during the 2nd Gulf war, but that started during the third year of his first term rather than the second year of his second term. Why is that distinction important?
 
johnny karate said:
JD Vance confirms that Iran could get up to $300 billion in reconstruction funds as part of this deal:



We were told giving money to Iran was bad and a good reason to vote for Trump because he wouldn't do that:


It's fun to look at that checklist now, isn't it? Trump did the first three things with such enthusiasm it's like he couldn't wait to make his supporters look stupid.

In fairness, he probably won't do the fourth thing, but then again, it refers to circumstances that are divorced from reality, so it doesn't really matter.
Click to expand...
So that's what, about 5-6 times more than Iran got out of the JCPOA? And I didn't see anything in there about stop funding terrorists.

Obama was right, we're in no better position than we were before the start of the war. You could even argue worse. It's makes our military leadership looks weak. China and Russia have got to be loving this.
 
i’d give it until monday at least. there’s a precedent to make peace all week and start the bombing on the weekend in place that we can’t throw out
 
Ziggurat said:
We lost over 2700 aircraft in Korea. We lost over 10,000 aircraft in Vietnam. You aren't a little bit wrong about those, you're laughably wrong.

More recently, the coalition lost 75 aircraft during the 1st Gulf war, most of them US. And why the "first 2 years of his term" qualifier? H.W. Bush lost more aircraft during the 2nd Gulf war, but that started during the third year of his first term rather than the second year of his second term. Why is that distinction important?
Click to expand...

"Well, we actually did lose more aircraft during periods of active warfare" a supporter of the most incompetent administration in modern history proudly informed us.
 
Pixel42 said:
I'll be interested to see if the deal, if and when it is agreed and the details become clear, is (a) better than the one Obama negotiated and Trump tore up and (b) better than the situation that pertained before Trump launched his invasion for either the US or Iran. Or indeed the rest of the world, given the hit the global economy has taken from the whole ill advised venture.
Click to expand...
You can nearly guarantee that it won’t be better. If lucky, it might be the same.
It’s pretty much like all the “deals” that were made by threatening trade partners with outlandish tariffs to “bring them to the table”. Threats are made. Threatened parties accept the status quo (and sometimes negotiate a better deal for themselves). Trump claims crisis solved by his amazeballs business savvy. (FFS).
Democrats triggered, MAGA loves it.
 
The Great Zaganza said:
aaand... we are down another irreplaceable plane.

B 52 bomber crashes after takeoff at St. Edwards.

www.latimes.com

'We lost eight great Americans’ in fiery B-52 bomber crash, Air Force colonel says

All eight people aboard the U.S. Air Force B-52 bomber plane that crashed at Edwards Air Force Base in California are presumed dead. Officials say the crash occurred during a "routine test mission."
www.latimes.com www.latimes.com

I don't think any US President has lost that many planes in the first 2 years of his term since WW2.
(Might be wrong about Korea/Vietnam).

Click to expand...
Huh. California of course. Bloody Gavin Newscum.
 
Ziggurat said:
We lost over 2700 aircraft in Korea. We lost over 10,000 aircraft in Vietnam. You aren't a little bit wrong about those, you're laughably wrong.

More recently, the coalition lost 75 aircraft during the 1st Gulf war, most of them US. And why the "first 2 years of his term" qualifier? H.W. Bush lost more aircraft during the 2nd Gulf war, but that started during the third year of his first term rather than the second year of his second term. Why is that distinction important?
Click to expand...
Why indeed. It should of course be the 'first 511 days', so The Great Zaganza is giving Trump a bit of an unfair advantage here. The time frame matters because the longer someone is president the more likely they are to be involved in a hot war. Also we don't know how long Trump will remain president. 2 years is reasonably likely, 4 years not so much.

How many planes have been lost isn't as important as the lessons which have been learned (assuming they have). Expensive lessons for sure, but not as expensive as if they had to be learned during a full scale war. Other valuable lessons have also been learned. This war has been the best naval training exercise in decades!
 
johnny karate said:
"Well, we actually did lose more aircraft during periods of active warfare" a supporter of the most incompetent administration in modern history proudly informed us.
Click to expand...
Either fact matter, or they don’t. If they do, get them right. I’m not sure why you have a problem with that. TGZ didn’t.
 
A lot has changed, with planes being built to be unstoppable - the F-35 were considered to be impossible to shoot down. Iran was supposed to be defenseless after two wars targeting air defenses continuously.
And the Radar Plane was supposed to be out of reach of Iran.
Just by pricetag, the cost of the planes lost would have bought a lot more planes in previous wars, so a comparison is tricky.

I guess the main point is that the US thinking on waging war primarily through air superiority has been proven to be deeply flawed.
US Air Power has proven to be not as invulnerable as the current doctrine requires.

The latest crash strongly suggests that it's time to retire the B52 for good.
 
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What a glorious victory! The world should be humbled by the leadership if the USA - in less than six months, this fabled president and his warfighters have brought the Iranians to their knees, and forced them to, possibly, accept a deal that brings things back to where they were before this war, more or less. Or perhaps only less, it seems! In this process, the despicable Iranian regime has been vastly strengthened, and their position far more secure than before the war. USA has exposed its present weakness to world, made former allies turn away, turned the upwards trajectory of the world economy downward, made life less affordable for everyone, spent oodles of money on the war, and even more on the possible peace, allowed Israel to attack Lebanon, killed their own and others, including school children.

Great stuff. I am so impressed.
 
Trump Winds Down the War He Started With Goals Unmet (NY Times analysis)

Mr. Trump publicly declared victory on Sunday mainly based on solving a problem of his own making, in miscalculating Iran’s ability to choke off the Strait of Hormuz. Mr. Trump asserted on Truth Social that he had authorized the toll-free opening of the crucial waterway, which would essentially restore the prewar status quo, and celebrated that the global energy markets would rebound.

“Ships of the World, start your engines,” he wrote. “Let the oil flow!”
Click to expand...
 
Donald Trump may decide to release a preliminary deal to end the war with Iran before Friday, US Vice-President JD Vance says, after the US president said the agreement had already been signed...

Senior US officials have also begun giving some details about the deal, briefing that the Strait of Hormuz would re-open on Friday - the same day the deal is formally inked in Geneva...

Iran's Foreign Minister Seyed Abbas Araghchi confirmed a new round of negotiations on reaching a final peace deal with the US would begin in Switzerland the same day.

www.bbc.co.uk

Trump could release US-Iran deal before Friday, Vance says

The US vice-president says the agreement is "about a page and a half" and "very general", meaning many details will be worked out later.
www.bbc.co.uk www.bbc.co.uk
 
Crowning Achievement

Jesse Watters
@JesseBWatters
🚨 BREAKING: THE IRAN DEAL IS DONE — AND ALL THE URANIUM GETS DESTROYED 🚨

Buried a SKYSCRAPER deep… and the U.S. is the ONLY country that can dig it out 👀

NO enrichment. NO sunset clause. NO money up front — they PERFORM, then get PAID 💰

Gulf allies just pledged $300 BILLION to rebuild the wreckage 💥

80% of Iran's military DECIMATED — this could be Trump's CROWNING ACHIEVEMENT 🇺🇸

Video in link
 
Fake News

Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump
Iran has agreed to never have a Nuclear Weapon! Also, the story that the U.S. is paying Iran 300 million Dollars is Fake News, put out by the Dumocrats!!!

President DJT
 
Obama

Vance: I would say Obama, why in the world, of it's the same thing, why is it that the gulf Arabs hated your deal and they love our deal? He should acknowledge that the people who are closest to this, they love the Trump deal. They hate the Obama deal. And that is maybe the biggest endorsement of this plan

Video in link
 
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