• Security incident: ISF was recently accessed by intruders. Please change your password, and change it anywhere else you used it. Read more

Apollo 11 Moon Landing Revisited: Hoax ~vs~ Debunk

A country, let's say Nonsuch Republic, makes a political decision to make a global name for itself in a 'Space Race' context in the 1950's. So, it gathers its top scientists to make it happen. Fast forward for whatever reason it can't get its astronauts to a planet called Orange by the deadline. So it uses footage from some of its numerous training sessions simulating arriving on Orange.
Why wouldn't this country just push back their launch schedule so they can fly the mission for real? Why would this country continue to fake missions even after they could complete these missions for real for seven additional times?

In the 1960s the United States didn't make a global name for itself because of space exploration. We were famous for our industries, and vast middle-class, and space was just one aspect of who we were, and still are. Problem with your thesis is it has zero real-world application. The Apollo program was already two years behind schedule by the time 11 landed on the moon. Sure there was backdrop of fulfilling JFK's promise to land on the moon before 1970, but the fact is NASA was ready to do this at least a year earlier, maybe more.

And a few Apollo missions had their launches postponed for weather and technical issues.

This goes down very well and is deemed globally as highly successful. Over time all school children are taught the physics of walking on Orange, based on these videos (as imagined by Nonsuch Republic's top brains).
So this mythical country has zero scientists of any kind, and no science programs in schools based on centuries of research? In this world they just make stuff up, and pass it along to children as fact?

You are projecting.

In the US and elsewhere children were taught about the difference between the earth and lunar gravity decades before Sputnik. Again, you've overreached.

Educational institutions teach that what is seen in the 50's videos are 'real life' on Orange. So, centre of gravity is calculated on the basis of analysis of the video, likewise, how the astronauts walk and move. Ditto appearance of the sky and landscape.
Why would they teach it that way? How stupid are these people? And what kind scientists bases their gravity calculations bases on video? And I've never been to Io, but I'm pretty sure the sky is black when not facing Jupiter. Also, WE KNOW WHAT THE GRAVITY ON IO IS AND IT'S RATIO TO EARTH.

You say you read books, do they come with crayons, or do you buy those separately?

Here's your problem: are you able to assess the claims objectively, or will your education based on Nonsuch Republic's simulations take sovereignty?
Your problem is you are not objective. You approach each topic with your mind already made up, and shape your opinions by ignoring evidence that contradicts your beliefs. You are no better than the folks I used to deal with in the paranormal "research" crowd. Not interested in solid facts, always embracing fringe ideologs, all against a backdrop of a basic lack of general knowledge of science, and history. This is demonstrated constantly.

The United States didn't brainwash the world in 1969. We built the rockets, we designed and built all the technologies, we trained our men, and we went to the moon a bunch of times. Every step is documented. You can still talk to some of the surviving techs who worked on the Saturn V, and NASA will show you everything.
 
Last edited:
To put it another way, to those who believe the astronauts don't need to hop and that their 180lbs backpacks would still be somewhat of a problem, are you able to re-evaluate what you have believed about Orange all your life?
Here's an idea, ask a Royal Marine about his kit sometime. Or an average infantry soldier.
 
Great, except for all, Rene, pulled it down about 14psi. IIRC. Makes a tremendous difference 3.5 vs. ~13 psi.
To be fair, I never found out exactly what the pressure was in René's homemade vacuum chamber. It looks fairly slipshod, which means it's probably not very airtight. I wasn't there when he did the experiment and the filmmakers didn't ask what the pressure was or see any pressure gauge. René simply referred to it as a "vacuum chamber." René lived in New Jersey, not far above sea level and the experiment was done at his home. So the maximum pressure difference he could have had would have been around 14 psig. But it was likely lower due to likely leaks in his apparatus. However I doubt it was merely 3.7 psig, the actual pressure difference in an Apollo suit.
 
<original deleted>

On the subject of photography, last week we saw the Chinese Zhuque-2E Y6 rocket as it overflew Australia.
I’ll have to ask my friend to send me the photo taken on a smartphone (I was heading for the bottle shop at the time).
It had us flummoxed as to what we’d seen, until we read about it in the local news, e.g.,
PHOTO-2026-06-14-11-06-26.jpeg

I won’t tell you the name of the “stars”. I mean, you don’t need a double PhD to work it out - apparently it’s so easy a 2-year-old NASA astronaut could identify them.

Taken soon after sunset in SE Qld, so the vented gas from the rocket is still being illuminated by the sun.

I turned my back to the sun, but still got glare for some reason.
Ok, I left the street light glare in it prove a point.

Taken by a friend on her Android phone.
 
To be fair as a former British management accountant I will use K or M as a shorthand for thousand or million, but I'd also include a pound sign, miles or km etc to clarify WHAT it was thousands or millions of. And I wouldn't put in the zeros as well!
I did say 'miles'. Normally, I only use the 'K' when it's a rounding up or down. You are writing reports to your creative boss who doesn't want to see '£279,592.23' which means nothing to him or her. But they immediately grasp £280K.
 
WD Clinger, perhaps now we are getting somewhere?
Bearing in mind the topic matter, consider the following hypothetical scenario. (NB: that is not to say it is a hypothetical question.
A country, let's say Nonsuch Republic, makes a political decision to make a global name for itself in a 'Space Race' context in the 1950's. So, it gathers its top scientists to make it happen. Fast forward for whatever reason it can't get its astronauts to a planet called Orange by the deadline. So it uses footage from some of its numerous training sessions simulating arriving on Orange.

This goes down very well and is deemed globally as highly successful. Over time all school children are taught the physics of walking on Orange, based on these videos (as imagined by Nonsuch Republic's top brains).

Forward to the 2020's with huge advances in technology. Some perfectly respectable scientists are querying what they see in the 1950's videos.

Problem: you, Detective WD Clinger, are tasked with investigating these claims. You are professionally expected to be impartial and to consider the claims of the objectors.

Educational institutions teach that what is seen in the 50's videos are 'real life' on Orange. So, centre of gravity is calculated on the basis of analysis of the video, likewise, how the astronauts walk and move. Ditto appearance of the sky and landscape.

Here's your problem: are you able to assess the claims objectively, or will your education based on Nonsuch Republic's simulations take sovereignty? To put it another way, to those who believe the astronauts don't need to hop and that their 180lbs backpacks would still be somewhat of a problem, are you able to re-evaluate what you have believed about Orange all your life?
You’re asking about this ridiculous hypothetical scenario, and somehow it isn’t a hypothetical question? Why make the bizarre claim that this very obvious hypothetical question about this hypothetical scenario isn’t a hypothetical question?
 
I did say 'miles'. Normally, I only use the 'K' when it's a rounding up or down. You are writing reports to your creative boss who doesn't want to see '£279,592.23' which means nothing to him or her. But they immediately grasp £280K.
What kind of “creative boss” doesn’t understand “£279,592.23” such that it means nothing to them? What kind of illiterate or innumerate boses have you been writing reports for such that “£279.529.23” isn’t immediately understandable?
 
What kind of “creative boss” doesn’t understand “£279,592.23” such that it means nothing to them? What kind of illiterate or innumerate boses have you been writing reports for such that “£279.529.23” isn’t immediately understandable?
Also, if we're reporting everything in thousands of pounds, why not just indicate that in a header so that the individual item simply reads "280"?
 
What kind of “creative boss” doesn’t understand “£279,592.23” such that it means nothing to them? What kind of illiterate or innumerate boses have you been writing reports for such that “£279.529.23” isn’t immediately understandable?
My bosses are extremely erudite. They are or were RADA trained actor/s, theatre director/s and playwright/s. Unlike my former bosses in, for example, the wine trade, they are not obsessed with money.
 
You’re asking about this ridiculous hypothetical scenario, and somehow it isn’t a hypothetical question? Why make the bizarre claim that this very obvious hypothetical question about this hypothetical scenario isn’t a hypothetical question?
The non-hypothetical question part is where I ask, "Are you able to be objective?" (Rather than resorting to knee jerk name calling or dismissal.)
 
My bosses are extremely erudite. They are or were RADA trained actor/s, theatre director/s and playwright/s. Unlike my bosses in the wine trade, they are not obsessed with money.

If your bosses think £279,563.23 is meaningless and need shorthand to help them understand something like an amount of money written in proper notation, then they don’t sound very erudite to me. They sound kinda the opposite - uneducated and not very bright.
 
If your bosses think £279,563.23 is meaningless and need shorthand to help them understand something like an amount of money written in proper notation, then they don’t sound very erudite to me. They sound kinda the opposite - uneducated and not very bright.
You have to be pretty elite to get into RADA. You have to have a deep understanding of Shakespeare, for example. Hardly uneducated, just 'arty'.
 
The non-hypothetical question part is where I ask, "Are you able to be objective?" (Rather than resorting to knee jerk name calling or dismissal.)
That’s dumb. Of course the question “are you able to be objective?”, about a hypothetical scenario, is a hypothetical question. That’s what a hypothetical question IS.
 
Obviously a typo whilst distracted. I thought I had written it. I am hardly going to use a figure without indicating what one is referring to. Really!
Which would be fair enough if you accepted it the first time around. But why do you have to be pinned down to admit a mistake? Instead you try to front it out and claim you didn't make an error, and make up nonsense to try to excuse it.

What camera settings would you use in daylight to capture images of stars? What would the rest of the image look like?
 

ISF - Join now!

Every member here is approved by hand. No bots, no spam, just people who care about evidence and honest debate.

Membership is free!

Create your free account

Back
Top Bottom