Merged (edited) General thoughts about Christianity and the bible

[Jack by the hedge]

My premise was that no new information (material) is produced by natural selection.
True, or false?

Disingenuous. Natural selection has a big clue in its name. Natural selection is a natural process of selection. It is not the thing which produces variation.

 

[JayUtah]

What happens to him is rather improbable as a natural occurrence.

Hence I have reason to doubt his story is true. In any case, he provides no testable evidence.

Like new information from natural selection.

You are unserious.

 

[Rusty Tyler]

I was more getting vibes of our old friend, wossname, arguing against general relativity. That one went in circles like that too. Well, actually we probably went below that level, since even that one didn't insist that it's checkmate because it's one of the infinite possible things.

Can you explain why rearranging existing information creates new information?

 

[Rusty Tyler]

Disingenuous. Natural selection has a big clue in its name. Natural selection is a natural process of selection. It is not the thing which produces variation.

A variation is not new information.

 

[JayUtah]

Can you explain why rearranging existing information creates new information?

The same way rearranging the digits of a phone number creates a new phone number, or rearranging pixels on a screen creates a new picture.

 

[JayUtah]

A variation is not new information.

You don't know what "information" is.

 

[SpuriusMaximus]

My premise was that no new information (material) is produced by natural selection.
True, or false?

False. And quite trivially so. Every program or file on your computer, every video you've ever seen on a computer, etc, is a sequence of 1s and 0s. None of them have any choices than the set of base 2 numbers. But someone can still make a new video, or write a new text, conveying different information.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

Can you explain why rearranging existing information creates new information?

What you just wrote is a rearrangement of words which you already know.

It's perhaps not a shining example of something "new" as you've been stubbornly not getting this simple point for entirely too long to be believable, but nevertheless it is a new arrangement you made. Is it not?

 

[Rusty Tyler]

But the combination may be one that never existed before.

A combination made from existing information. Thus not new.

 

[jimbob]

Disingenuous. Natural selection has a big clue in its name. Natural selection is a natural process of selection. It is not the thing which produces variation.

Absolutely.

Random mutation creates new information and natural selection winnows out the garbage

 

[JayUtah]

A combination made from existing information.

No.

Thus not new.

False.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

A variation is not new information.

So no new book or video or piece of music is new. That's your claim, is it?

 

[SpuriusMaximus]

A combination made from existing information. Thus not new.

That is a strange argument. By that line of thinking no new information exists between fish and humans, because they all have their genetic code in base 4.

 

[Rusty Tyler]

False. And quite trivially so. Every program or file on your computer, every video you've ever seen on a computer, etc, is a sequence of 1s and 0s. None of them have any choices than the set of base 2 numbers. But someone can still make a new video, or write a new text, conveying different information.

Right.
All from the existing base 2 system. Available information, not new.

ON/OFF switches.

 

[SpuriusMaximus]

Well, then why bother watching a new video, even the one about the Ark, since it's all from the same infinite set of binary numbers, and thus it can't be any new information?

 

[Rusty Tyler]

So no new book or video or piece of music is new. That's your claim, is it?

My claim?
Books use words from a 26 letter alphabet. Music is created with the 12 notes available.
No new letters and no new notes.

 

[JayUtah]

The information conveyed by a computer program is represented as a sequence of bits.

 

[Pixel42]

So no new book or video or piece of music is new. That's your claim, is it?

Seems to be. It's impossible for anyone to write a new tune, for example, because it consists of the same notes as every existing tune.

 

[JayUtah]

My claim?
Books use words from a 26 letter alphabet. Music created with the 12 notes available.
No new letters and no new notes.

So if I were to write a book tomorrow, it could never present any new information?

 

[Rusty Tyler]

Well, then why bother watching a new video, even the one about the Ark, since it's all from the same infinite set of binary numbers, and thus it can't be any new information?

Yes, you should know better. - LOL