Merged (edited) General thoughts about Christianity and the bible

[P.J. Denyer]

Rusty, does your relationship with God come with any benefits that can't be dismissed as purely imaginary?

Or placebo, or related to the belief independent of whether a god exists, eg. being part of a faith based community.

 

[JayUtah]

...they *do* make perfect sense coming from a mortal priesthood eager for tithes and social control.

Welcome to Utah!

God's motives may be inscrutable, but humans are pretty obvious sometimes.

And how. There's certainly the sects of organized religion vying for membership. But then there is also simple tribal cohesion. You have people who choose a life that imposes some arbitrary restrictions on them and encourages idiosyncratic behavior that attracts undesired attention. All that is easier to live with if you can convince others to do the same. This would happen even in the absence of formal churches. People are simply more comfortable among like-minded neighbors. "You need to learn to believe crazy things without evidence so that I can be more comfortable believing crazy things without evidence."

 

[JayUtah]

"Permit..." or "Require..." in that usage.

...which we preserve in the adage, "Do not suffer fools gladly." All the meanings allude to something that must be tolerated, allowed, or endured. But it's still an archaic usage for which you have identified better modern words.

 

[Reformed Offlian]

And how. There's certainly the sects of organized religion vying for membership. But then there is also simple tribal cohesion. You have people who choose a life that imposes some arbitrary restrictions on them and encourages idiosyncratic behavior that attracts undesired attention. All that is easier to live with if you can convince others to do the same. This would happen even in the absence of formal churches. People are simply more comfortable among like-minded neighbors. "You need to learn to believe crazy things without evidence so that I can be more comfortable believing crazy things without evidence."

Good job of explaining what motivates the rank and file who put more into the collection plate than they get out of it.

 

[Mojo]

What actually is the purpose of faith?

Weeding out people who are likely to question the Bible.

 

[Rusty Tyler]

I'd also note that the "Benefits" of faith are being touted without any evidence of what they are

Plenty of human testimony, but you don't accept that as evidence.

 

[JayUtah]

Plenty of human testimony, but you don't accept that as evidence.

People saying faith does things for them is not evidence that I need faith to have the same or similar things.

 

[Rusty Tyler]

Rusty, does your relationship with God come with any benefits that can't be dismissed as purely imaginary?

Every benefit of faith can be easily dismissed as purely imaginary.
Since you claim that God doesn't exist, there must be a rational explanation. Right?

 

[Rusty Tyler]

Unrelated, a god that stays hidden and watches me all the time, to see if I even touch myself in the shower, strikes me as more of a stalker than anything else. And sure, most stalkers think they have some special relationship and connection to their victim, but that still doesn't make it something for the victim to want.

So, you assume that if there was a God, He would be out to do you harm?
Being omnipresent doesn't make God a stalker. That's just sick.

 

[theprestige]

Doubting Thomas was a skeptic.
Jesus applauded those who believed having not "seen". (scripture below)

The Bible says that creation makes plain the evidence of a creator God. (so men are without excuse)
Skeptics renounce the Bible. How many other ancient texts do they discount?

Is it fair to reject God on the basis of evidence?

John 20:29 NIV
Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed;
blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

Hebrews 11:6 NIV
And without faith it is impossible to please God,
because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists
and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.

I'm not going to accept the excuses of someone who insists that I trust them without evidence.

Requiring faith to accept the truth of something defeats the purpose of reason.

 

[JayUtah]

So, you assume that if there was a God, He would be out to do you harm?

No, the God you describe seems to engage in behavior that we would recognize as alarming if a human did it. Many religions restrict sexual behavior, including auto-eroticism. If that activity is going to matter in the final judgment, and God saw it because he proposed to look for it in order to judge you, then that's not really any different than a stalker.

Being omnipresent doesn't make God a stalker. That's just sick.

What interest does God have then in my private activities? If there is no interest, what's the point of being omnipresent?

 

[theprestige]

Every benefit of faith can be easily dismissed as purely imaginary.

I would say subjective, but yes, exactly.

Since you claim that God doesn't exist, there must be a rational explanation. Right?

A rational explanation for what? Subjective experience? The most rational explanation I know of is that beyond the physical processes of the brain, the fundamental nature of qualia reduces to a philosophical conundrum.

 

[JayUtah]

Every benefit of faith can be easily dismissed as purely imaginary.
Since you claim that God doesn't exist, there must be a rational explanation. Right?

Imagination has physical effects, but direct effects are limited to the imaginer. If belief in God makes you happy, then happiness is something that has a physical reality as well as a subjective effect. However, that's true of anything that makes anyone happy. If teaching science makes me happy, then my physical happiness is just as real as what you get from exercising faith. The point is that there's nothing special about a belief in God that produces unique benefits.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

That saw cuts both ways.

Evolution is a theory.

That's not a problem for me.

You may have an informal and non-scientific definition of the word theory in mind, but either way it's not a problem for me. Theories are always open to challenge, should evidence comes to light of anything that is incompatible with their being correct.

 

[Carrot Flower King]

The last half dozen haven't gone the way the script was supposed to?

Rusty must have been a very bad boy/girl/small furry creature from Alpha Centauri to be sent to argue with all us ungodly atheisticimal, scepticeral types repeatedly with so little actual preparatory work.

I'd love to know what exactly it was that he/she/they/it did, with whom and how many times...

 

[Carrot Flower King]

God desires a personal relationship with us. This requires faith on our part.

But why would any god want a personal relationship with an atheistimical, scepterical, asocial, crabby, snarky old git like me? Who likes cats far more than most people?

If he/she/it/they did make us in their image, then I most definitely don't want a personal relationship with it/them/she/he: I've met people, especially through work, and a lot of them are bad news.

 

[Darat]

God desires a personal relationship with us. This requires faith on our part.

Why? It never used to be the case, he was always popping up, indeed it's claimed that the sexy one of the throuple walked around with folk. No one used to have to have faith.

 

[Mojo]

We both have free will.

I use mine to receive the benefits of a relationship with the God you claim doesn't exist.

Free will is incompatible with the Christian God.

 

[JayUtah]

Why? It never used to be the case, he was always popping up, indeed it's claimed that the sexy one of the throuple walked around with folk. No one used to have to have faith.

I strongly suspect that the sentiment is less about God wanting a personal relationship with everyone and more about certain people wanting to believe they have a personal relationship with a god who cares that they exist. Faith then is more like delulu celebrity-stalkers or believing the stripper is really in love with you.

 

[Carrot Flower King]

Old Zeus certainly wanted some, errrrrr, very personal relationships with folk, didn't he?

Is this what we are talking about?