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Merged (edited) General thoughts about Christianity and the bible

Mojo said:
The fact that evidence for something has been published doesn't mean that the original evidence doesn't exist.

The difference is, all you have in the case of the Bible is what's written in the book.
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Is that true?
Tons of commentaries and books have been written about the content of the Bible.

Christian books stores are full of them.
 
Mojo said:
Are you attempting to argue that we should regard the Bible as factual because it doesn't follow established fact?
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No.
I'm asking you to treat it differently than other books.
The Bible is there to challenge established fact.

People generally can't walk on water, but Jesus and Peter did.
That's worth reporting.

But since people walking on water is not established fact, you probably reject it.
 
Rusty Tyler said:
He was healed on the spot. He walked freely around the room afterward praising God and waving the cane over his head.
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Sounds like quite a rush. Plenty of endorphins and adrenalin.

It's remarkable how debilitating it could be to have the expectation of a sudden pain if I made the wrong move, and how quick the relief can be if I got in a comfortable position and the nagging ache went. I'm not for one moment suggesting he or you were pretending. I'm just inclined to put the experience down to the same effect as similar 'healing' in people who don't share the same religion, such as the casting out of djinn in Islam.
 
Thermal said:
And, relevant: did this person get examined by doctors before and after the healing, and declare with one medically informed voice "◊◊◊◊ me, this is a miracle!" I never seem to see that kind of follow up.
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No, but here's one for you.

Luke 8:42-44 NIV
... As Jesus was on his way, the crowds almost crushed him.
43 And a woman was there who had been subject to bleeding
for twelve years, but no one could heal her.
44 She came up behind him and touched the edge of his cloak,
and immediately her bleeding stopped.
 
Rusty Tyler said:
It's my choice. I either buy it or I don't. I have to decide.
Not all claims are legitimate. I don't accept all reports.
(you don't accept any) What's the difference?
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The difference is that I have a consistent justification to reject all supernatural claims, while you reject some and accept others for inconsistent and irrelevant reasons, but mostly based on whether the claim is in line with your preferred version of Christianity.
 
Rusty Tyler said:
It would be dishonest to claim that all healing stories are false.
I witnessed a healing myself.

I have had many opportunities to pray for people in need. I rarely know the outcome.
But there was one instance where it was clear what happened.

An evening healing service at our church drew a number of people to the front of the church. The leader had everyone in line turn to the right and lay hands on the person in front of them.

I was at the end of the line so there was no one to pray for me.
However, the man in front of me had come in using a cane. (unusual for him) He had an injury that he wanted prayer for. He was in a lot of pain.

We were learning an interview style of praying for the sick/injured. So, I asked him questions to get a benchmark to start from.

I prayed for him and then asked him if he felt anything. He said he felt a tremendous heat on his back where I had been laying hands. I felt it too, but didn't tell him about it. I wanted to hear from him.

So, we pressed in again and kept at it. Then he reported that the pain was gone. He left the prayer line and walked around the sanctuary waving the cane in the air.

Reminded me of this. (the Apostle Peter, a mere human) And he leaping up stood, and walked, and entered with them into the temple, walking, and leaping, and praising God. - Acts 3:8 NIV

The next Sunday morning the healed man testified that he had been healed by God, and he pointed to me as the one who had prayed for him.
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You told that story already.

But heck, maybe it'll work this time.
 
Rusty Tyler said:
He was healed on the spot. He walked freely around the room afterward praising God and waving the cane over his head.
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I went to the doctor with what I thought might be a serious Achilles tendon injury requiring surgery or immobilisation. On my way in I could hardly walk (yes, I was using a stick). Once I'd been reassured that it was something I'd had before (although in a different form) that would recover without intervention or serious consequences, I was able to walk reasonably easily. It's called the placebo effect.
 
Jack by the hedge said:
It's remarkable how debilitating it could be to have the expectation of a sudden pain if I made the wrong move, and how quick the relief can be if I got in a comfortable position and the nagging ache went. I'm not for one moment suggesting he or you were pretending. I'm just inclined to put the experience down to the same effect as similar 'healing' in people who don't share the same religion, such as the casting out of djinn in Islam.
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Fair enough. But...
The next Sunday morning, the man testified before the church that God had healed him on the spot.
While I prayed for him, my hands were "on fire" with the power of the Holy Spirit.
I asked him if he could feel anything. He remarked about the "tremendous heat" on his back.
 
Rusty Tyler said:
No, but here's one for you.

Luke 8:42-44 NIV
... As Jesus was on his way, the crowds almost crushed him.
43 And a woman was there who had been subject to bleeding
for twelve years, but no one could heal her.
44 She came up behind him and touched the edge of his cloak,
and immediately her bleeding stopped.
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Akhenaten said:
Circular4.gif
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Rusty Tyler said:
I'm asking you to treat it differently than other books.
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Why?

Rusty Tyler said:
The Bible is there to challenge established fact.
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It states what its authors considered to be established fact. They just got a lot wrong which, considering the limited knowledge and understanding they had to work with, is hardly surprising. Humanity have accumulated a lot more knowledge and understanding in the thousands of years since, all of which is available to you. So you don't have the excuse for being wrong that they did.
 
Mojo said:
The fact that evidence for something has been published doesn't mean that the original evidence doesn't exist.

The difference is, all you have in the case of the Bible is what's written in the book.
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I would say that is true of the Bible as well.

More was happening than what was recorded.

John 21:25 NIV
Jesus did many other things as well. If every one of them were written down,
I suppose that even the whole world would not have room for the books that would be written.
 
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