Merged (edited) General thoughts about Christianity and the bible

[Darat]

Of course it does. There is a very remote possibility that some entity resembling a general concept of a god may appear someday and do something apparent to a majority population of our planet that resembles close enough the general concept of a god's singular abilities that people in general accept it as such. There is no evidence, barring anecdotes, that such a thing has ever happened in the past. And no reason to think that such an entity currently exists.

In fact "agnosticism" - the idea that we do not know everything - is the very thing that keeps science going - the idea that real compelling evidence could be found that overturns some aspect of current thinking. Nobel prizes are often awarded for such discoveries, and that particular field of science is changed forever.

So this particular attempt at a "gotcha" fails miserably.

But we can know that some gods as their believers define them are not real. For instance Zeus and the thropple. We know they do not exist.

 

[Norman Alexander]

Just because you REFUSE to believe it doesn't mean it can't happen.

Doesn't mean they DO happen either. Faith is simply belief without evidence.

The miracles of Jesus and the Apostles are an historic fact.

No, they're not. The available evidence puts them in the Harry Potter category: a fantastical tale set in a real location that occasionally references real people too.

The miracles of Jesus and the Apostles are widely regarded as historical events,
supported by the unanimous testimony of the four Gospels and other ancient writings.

The gospels are not the best references. To continue the the above metaphor, they are essentially HP Chinese whispers fanfic written down decades later, and which have been edited and translated and "adjusted" for political purposes centuries later. That is, so many degrees away from whatever the original truth was that they are useless as references.

Many scholars assert that these accounts are reliable historical documents
that describe miraculous acts beyond human capability.
fatima.org
dialoguejournal.com

Many "scholars"?? Don't you mean gullible unthinking believers?

 

[theprestige]

If I didn't know better, I'd say you are trying to get rid of me.

It's a bit more nuanced than that. I'm telling you to put up or shut up. I'm happy with either outcome. If you think that means "shut up", I won't disagree with your assessment of the strength of your position.

Maybe God sent me here to do the real work.

Have you asked Him? What did He say?

The fields are ripe unto harvest.

Are they? How many bushels have you harvested here?

 

[Rusty Tyler]

Have the nearly-dead seen a truth the Bible got wrong?

Just because I'm not familiar doesn't mean there is something wrong.

It seems to me that you aren't really familiar with these testimonies at all.

 

[Darat]

Just because you REFUSE to believe it doesn't mean it can't happen.
The miracles of Jesus and the Apostles are an historic fact.

The miracles of Jesus and the Apostles are widely regarded as historical events,
supported by the unanimous testimony of the four Gospels and other ancient writings.
Many scholars assert that these accounts are reliable historical documents
that describe miraculous acts beyond human capability.
fatima.org
dialoguejournal.com

No they aren’t, none of the gospels are even from eye witnesses of Jesus, they were all written decades after his death. There are no other “ancient” writings that collaborate the miracles of Jesus. We have much more historical records of a resurrected Nero, indeed the “Parthian Imposter” nearly managed to get an empire to go to war to restore him to his throne! As the famous documentary put it “He’s not the Messiah (He's a Very Naughty Boy”.

 

[Rusty Tyler]

Faith is simply belief without evidence.

Agree.
So why are you asking for concrete evidence?
Those with faith are satisfied with THEIR evidence.
You have to go find your own.

 

[theprestige]

Just because I'm not familiar doesn't mean there is something wrong.

If you're not familiar with these testimonies, then why are you relying on them for your conclusions?

It seems to me that you aren't really familiar with these testimonies at all.

I never claimed to be familiar with these testimonies. I'm relying on you to say what these testimonies mean, and what you conclude. Now you're saying you're not familiar either?

Did your God really tell you to come here and beclown yourself?

 

[Darat]

TThis is what you experience when you have a NDE;

The first thing one realises, when you die, or slip into coma, is that though the body is mortal, the atman is immortal. The atman leaves the body through the agnya chakra and consciousness remains after death. Post death consciousness is more vivid than in real life. One can see colours, unseen during earthly life. One can hear the holy sound OM and the gayatri mantra in afterlife. Consciousness survives death and souls experience an awesome sense of love, connectedness and peace. Just as gravity attracts the physical body downwards, The Hindu cosmic trinity, Brahma, Vishnu and Mahesh combined with the divine feminine (Saraswati, Mahalakshmi and Durga) appear as a beam of dazzling light, brighter than the brightest light on earth, pulls one's consciousness through a divine tunnel. Your whole life flashes infront of you starting from your birth on a cinemascopic screen, where one's soul experiences, the emotions encountered in our soul's earthly journey.​

Taken from:https://www.hackwriters.com/Menon-23.htm

 

[Norman Alexander]

Agree.
So why are you asking for concrete evidence?
Those with faith are satisfied with THEIR evidence.
You have to go find your own.

They're satisfied with zero evidence. Not "some" or "a bit" or "a smidgen", zero. At best, they are imagining things. At worst, they are delusional and dangerously gullible.

 

[Rusty Tyler]

Rusty Tyler said:
Just because I'm not familiar doesn't mean there is something wrong.

If you're not familiar with these testimonies, then why are you relying on them for your conclusions?

No. I mean not familiar with the bilabial support for some of things I saw.

Did your God really tell you to come here and beclown yourself?

No.
It's just something I am wondering about.

There be some good soil here somewhere. Domino theory.

Matthew 13:8 NIV
Still other seed fell on good soil, where it produced a crop—
a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown.

 

[Darat]

Can I just add that the bible makes it very clear that heaven is above the clouds, it isn’t in some other dimension or something. Must be a pisser for god to have to keep getting out of the way of the planes, as for rockets and satellites, I bet god is doing a Karen and constantly bemoaning them.

 

[Rusty Tyler]

TThis is what you experience when you have a NDE;

The first thing one realises, when you die, or slip into coma, is that though the body is mortal, the atman is immortal. The atman leaves the body through the agnya chakra and consciousness remains after death. Post death consciousness is more vivid than in real life. One can see colours, unseen during earthly life. One can hear the holy sound OM and the gayatri mantra in afterlife. Consciousness survives death and souls experience an awesome sense of love, connectedness and peace. Just as gravity attracts the physical body downwards, The Hindu cosmic trinity, Brahma, Vishnu and Mahesh combined with the divine feminine (Saraswati, Mahalakshmi and Durga) appear as a beam of dazzling light, brighter than the brightest light on earth, pulls one's consciousness through a divine tunnel. Your whole life flashes infront of you starting from your birth on a cinemascopic screen, where one's soul experiences, the emotions encountered in our soul's earthly journey.​

Taken from:https://www.hackwriters.com/Menon-23.htm

Interesting, thanks.
Do you agree with this statement?
"Consciousness survives death and souls experience an awesome sense of love, connectedness and peace."

 

[Rusty Tyler]

Can I just add that the bible makes it very clear that heaven is above the clouds, it isn’t in some other dimension or something.

Biblically speaking there are several heavens.

 

[Rusty Tyler]

They're satisfied with zero evidence.

Is that what they would say?

 

[Norman Alexander]

Is that what they would say?

Doesn't matter what they say. It's what they have.

I can say I have three arms. I'm sure I do, I saw it in a dream. I can imagine it as much as I like. But when I checked reality just now? Nope, two arms as per normal.

 

[arthwollipot]

Doesn't the term "agnostic" leave a door open to possibility?

Not really.

"Agnostic" is the opposite of "gnostic", which means direct knowledge. Agnostic with regards to religion means that there is no possibility of direct knowledge of the existence - or nonexistence - of any kind of god. In fact, if you take it to its logical conclusion, agnosticism leads directly to atheism. Let me explain.

You can't know that a god exists - this is the definition of agnosticism. There is no evidence that a god exists, otherwise this would be gnostic and would preclude any possibility of atheism. A universe with no evidence that any kind of god exists is indistinguishable - practically and theoretically - from a universe with no god. It is more parsimonious and reasonable therefore to assume that there is no god, rather than to postulate that there is a god that shows no evidence of its existence. The universe has no need for such an entity.

I thought atheists were sure God doesn't exist.
Agnostics aren't sure.

No. One can be both atheist and agnostic, as I have just demonstrated.

Good question, thanks.
No, that's not what I meant.

What I mean is at the end of physical life, if there is nothing more, what was the point?

Your life starts when you are born, because your parents had sex and conceived you. Hopefully it was deliberate. Your life ends when you die. The "point" is what you do with the time you have. What are you doing with it?

Just because you REFUSE to believe it doesn't mean it can't happen.
The miracles of Jesus and the Apostles are an historic fact.

Lol no they're not.

 

[Thermal]

If I didn't know better, I'd say you are trying to get rid of me.

I took theprestige's comment to mean you can do God's work and be his foot soldier, even if He doesn't exist.

Maybe God sent me here to do the real work. The fields are ripe unto harvest.

If you're a betting man, I'm giving lucrative odds?

 

[Rusty Tyler]

Doesn't matter what they say. It's what they have.

Who are you to say?

 

[Norman Alexander]

Who are you to say?

Reality says.

 

[Rusty Tyler]

I tool theprestige's comment to mean you can do God's work and be his foot soldier, even if He doesn't exist.

How can I do His work if He doesn't exist?

Actually, the best bet is to do His work in case you are wrong. - LOL

Otherwise you're toast. ???