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Does SCOTUS deserve its exalted status?

So still, what's the difference between originals, textualism, and what you think they should do. Which seems like the same thing just without any rationalization other than, because we think it ought to be this way.

I think you will find all sorts of legal types that strongly disagree with the notion that judges are necessarily making policy decisions.

They are wrong. A decision about a completely new legal question, one that will shape the parameters of society the same as any other policy act by a legislator or executive, is a policy decision. Talks like a duck, etc. Even if the person claims their decision is based on divine texts the person is making a policy decision that consulting the divine texts is the correct decision. It is inescapable that a decision that creates new law is a policy decision.

Sure, the legal profession standard position is that they are apolitical. This is self-serving and intended to boost their own credibility and justify the power of the courts.

At least most of it. There are those of us that are willing to call out the self-serving nonsense. Just not all that many.

@JayUtah, obviously, I'm unconvinced. Especially the basis of originalism and textualism being based on the Constitution being law or not. A. No reason laws have to written in legalese but even if they do the constitution would be more about the law regarding the making of laws. Its clearly the rule book by which the government in the US is meant to operate.

I'm still struck that the alternatives really seem to be exactly what critics of originalism and textualism say they are, which is rationalization for pre-existing desired outcomes. Except with out even a rationalization.

This is not an accurate appraisal.

law is no different than any other moral issue. For example, atheists can be moral without the need of the command of a higher power.

Having to actually lay out an argument and a reason for a decision and take responsibility for that decision is good. This leads toward a healthy consensus about moral acts.

Claiming that a decision is just following God's will is bad. It facilitates evil.

The same exact dynamic applies here.
 
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I see you have not answered whether the ambulance driver has committed a crime. It is a pretty simple question.

Laws, especially older ones, are often written in general terms just as this one.
 
Lest there remain any doubt about balls and strikes, the recently leaked memos in the New York Times' reporting prominently feature Chief Justice John Roberts blatantly shilling for the coal power industry. The Times represents that this was the start of the so-called shadow docket era. The Chief was trying to convince his colleagues to enter a stay immediately on an Obama-era rule requiring coal power plants to reduce carbon emissions, before the case had finished in the appeals court. This was wholly against the Court's prior practice, as was noted by other justices. In pressing his case, Chief Justice Roberts suddenly appointed himself an expert in the coal power industry and argued strenuously that the rule's requirements would pose irreparable harm to the applicants—by diminishing coal production by 2%.

Now I assume that any panel of judges must deliberate and attempt to persuade their colleagues. However at this point no factual record was before the court. Roberts got all his "facts" from a BBC interview with an Obama official. It's one thing to be the trier of facts presented by the parties, and to attempt to persuade one's judicial colleagues to pay attention to the facts that seem most in evidence. It's another thing entirely to present one party's case as if you were their counsel and, on that basis, to request extraordinary relief.
 
They are wrong. A decision about a completely new legal question, one that will shape the parameters of society the same as any other policy act by a legislator or executive, is a policy decision. Talks like a duck, etc. Even if the person claims their decision is based on divine texts the person is making a policy decision that consulting the divine texts is the correct decision. It is inescapable that a decision that creates new law is a policy decision.

Sure, the legal profession standard position is that they are apolitical. This is self-serving and intended to boost their own credibility and justify the power of the courts.

At least most of it. There are those of us that are willing to call out the self-serving nonsense. Just not all that many.



This is not an accurate appraisal.

law is no different than any other moral issue. For example, atheists can be moral without the need of the command of a higher power.

Having to actually lay out an argument and a reason for a decision and take responsibility for that decision is good. This leads toward a healthy consensus about moral acts.

Claiming that a decision is just following God's will is bad. It facilitates evil.

The same exact dynamic applies here.
No, it does not. Laws and constitutions are just rules written by people. Judges are suppose to be more like referees. Did that constitute a foul or not. That is the only argument that matters in court. What does the law say, was this within that law or not. No judge or justice is claiming they are just carrying out god's will. Some claim to be able to understand English as written though. No different than consulting the rules of a board came to see how you should play. The fact that some of those rules are poorly written isn't the fault of the judges.

The carrying out gods law is more like what realists would be doing. Sure the words say X but Y would be better so Y.
 
No, it does not. Laws and constitutions are just rules written by people. Judges are suppose to be more like referees. Did that constitute a foul or not. That is the only argument that matters in court. What does the law say, was this within that law or not. No judge or justice is claiming they are just carrying out god's will. Some claim to be able to understand English as written though. No different than consulting the rules of a board came to see how you should play. The fact that some of those rules are poorly written isn't the fault of the judges.

The carrying out gods law is more like what realists would be doing. Sure the words say X but Y would be better so Y.
Is the Ambulance driver a criminal?
 
Sure, the legal profession standard position is that they are apolitical. This is self-serving and intended to boost their own credibility and justify the power of the courts.
My spouse makes no secret of being a liberal squish and participating in "impact litigation." But yes, I agree that the legal profession really tries hard to portray itself as impartial.

Having to actually lay out an argument and a reason for a decision and take responsibility for that decision is good. This leads toward a healthy consensus about moral acts.

Claiming that a decision is just following God's will is bad. It facilitates evil.

The same exact dynamic applies here.
I really hope you can underscore this.

I won't be as lengthy here as above, but I draw my thinking on this from Peter Gomes' The Good Book in which he criticizes the so-called literalist approach to interpreting the Bible. The most insidious interpretation, he writes, is the one you don't acknowledge you are making. To read is to interpret.

As applied here, the notion that one's interpretation of a law or constitution is somehow above question because it flows naturally and unmistakably from some singular historical or linguistical sword in a stone serves mostly to foreclose any rational discussion of it. Just as literalist Bible readers point to some passage and announce its clear, literal, unmistakable meaning, you have judges pointing to passages in law and saying, "It means exactly and only thus, so saith Webster's Dictionary."

Saying that a modern law regarding, say, the possession of firearms is constitutional only if it adheres to "the history and tradition" of such laws from colonial times is very much a policy choice. It can be separated from what analysis you might apply to the substance of the law, such as whether it applies to machine guns or whether a state can require a permit. The choice to base that analysis on ancient laws versus a modern understanding of the facts is a policy choice. You may then go on to apply that analysis in as defensible and dispassionate a way as you want, but if you declared your standard of review itself as beyond question, then you're just avoiding stating the basis of your argument.

Whether it's a stupid way to practice religion is debatable. But treating law like religion is just wrong.

Laws, especially older ones, are often written in general terms just as this one.
42 U.S.C. § 1983 comes to mind. This is the Reconstruction Era law that provides a civil cause of action for violating a person's constitutional or statutory rights. It notoriously excludes federal officers because at the time it was written there were no federal officers.

The Constitution doesn't provide any penalties for violating the rights it guarantees. After it tells us there can be no unreasonable searches and seizures, there isn't an "...or else" clause. The Supreme Court decided—i.e., made the policy—that the Constitution is self-executing in certain ways against certain people (this time, federal officers) by providing a cause of action to sue in federal court. This is known today as a Bivens action. It fixes the problem with the old, deficient wording in § 1983. Of course subsequent courts have eroded this—i.e., modified the policy—such that the joke goes that you can prevail in a Bivens action only if your name is Webster Bivens.
 
No, it does not. Laws and constitutions are just rules written by people.
Written necessarily incompletely and often fallibly.

Judges are suppose to be more like referees. Did that constitute a foul or not.
99 out 100 cases are that way. The ball was obviously way outside the strike zone, therefore ball. But the "low pitch" 1 out of 100 cases depends on whether the strike zone is reckoned by the top of the knee or the bottom of the knee, and the rules may not be too clear on that. Those are the cases in which a judge says, "I think the strike zone should be defined by the top of the knee, and here's why I think that." The genius of our judiciary is that if you disagree, you can almost always ask a higher judge. And that judge may say, "No, those reasons aren't convincing. The strike zone should be the bottom of the knee, and here are the reasons why that's the better choice." And so forth. Eventually someone may get around to rewriting the rules to refine exactly what part of the body defines the strike zone, but until then there are games to play and umpires don't get to just shrug their shoulders.

The reason textualism sucks is that it's the equivalent of a judge saying, "Historically the strike zone was at the top of the knee, so that's what it must invariably be." Historically when? Where? Established how? Simply referring to ancient tradition is shallow and dismissive. Insisting that ancient tradition is the only reliable standard by which to evaluate the law and apply it to the facts is itself dismissive, especially since modern practice in baseball has actually been to widen the strike zone. When we acquired the technical means to impartially call balls and strikes with mathematical precision, it turns out we were calling too few strikes and people hated the game.

Finally judges that purport to be only umpires calling balls and strikes clearly are doing no such thing.

The fact that some of those rules are poorly written isn't the fault of the judges.
But it is still the judge's duty to rule. Hence you need to tell us how the judge should rule in the ambulance case.

And it doesn't matter how finely or exhaustively the legislature tries to write the rule. There will always arise a fact pattern that isn't clearly prescribed for, and a judge doesn't have the option to say, "Gee, fellas, I just don't know; let's wait until they fix the rules." You can't absolve judges of discretion by requiring legislatures and laws to be comprehensive and airtight. It doesn't matter how very, very good they are. It's a theoretical impossibility to cover all the bases.
 
The ambulance driver broke the law.

ETA: Its not the judges role to rewrite the law as they see fit. That is the legislatures job.

You would be hard pressed to find an originalist who doesn't admit that sometimes the meaning isn't totally clear, (maybe Thomas), that does not mean the judge can just decide what the laws or constitution say without trying to figure out what the writers meant.

Judges do sometimes have the option to say, "The law isn't clear, legislators do better!". The Scotus does do that.

The alternative to textualism and/or originalism seems to be, I think the strike zone should be from the toes to the waist based on my feelings or who it will impact the outcome of the game. If the judge isn't trying to figure out what the law means, then what are they doing? If they are trying to figure out what the law means but not based on what it says or what the writes said it meant, what is that?

ETA: Moderately ironic that its more than a little bit of a stretch to say the vagueness doctrine is in the constitution but....
Basically a ruling that says vague laws violate due process requirements.
 
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ETA: Its not the judges role to rewrite the law as they see fit.
Straw man. No one is claiming judges are rewriting laws.

That is the legislatures job.
Red herring. Agreed the legislature has the responsibility to make laws, but their dereliction or incapacity in doing so does not absolve judges of a responsibility to rule on questions properly before them in the absence of clear legislative prescription.

That does not mean the judge can just decide what the laws or constitution say without trying to figure out what the writers meant.
Even good-faith efforts at peering into the heads of people long dead are problematic. Hence best to admit to the problems rather than to pretend they don't exist. Besides, there are other traditions besides Textualism and Originalism that focus on legislative intent.

Purposivism aggressively asks, "What was the spirit of this law? What problem was it trying to solve? How should we apply it now that the problem is materially different?" Consequentialism pulls the analysis of intent out of a narrow, formalistic scope and tries to put it in a real-world context. "Did the Founders really intend a convicted criminal to have to sustain his sentence when he can show new evidence of his factual innocence?" It realizes that the law is not there merely to serve its own purposes.

Judges do sometimes have the option to say, "The law isn't clear, legislators do better!". The Scotus does do that.
As do lower courts. The legislators may respond; they may not. The judge must still rule.

The alternative to textualism and/or originalism seems to be, I think the strike zone should be from the toes to the waist based on my feelings or who it will impact the outcome of the game.
I didn't say anything about feelings. In my analogy, the umpire who resolved and ambiguity did so according to an externalized rationale that can be questioned, agreed with, disagreed with, and ultimately overruled by someone with a more appealing rationale and rational criticism of the former.

In contrast legal moralism is where we get such bedrock concepts as mens rea, which applies to whether an ambulance driver intended to inflict the wrong that the city fathers intended to prevent by forbidding vehicles in the park, and goes on to establish guilt or innocence by a balance of praiseworthy versus blameworthy intent. This is often the principle on which jury nullification arises, hence it is a kind of justice we know we want.

If the judge isn't trying to figure out what the law means, then what are they doing?
When a judge tries to figure out what a law means where the law is incomplete, unclear, or in conflict with another law—or how it should apply to the facts when those specific facts were not contemplated by the lawmakers—he is being a judge. When he renders his opinion after all that figuring out, he is enacting policy.

If they are trying to figure out what the law means but not based on what it says or what the writes said it meant, what is that?
It's fantasy, a straw man. Nearly all interpretational methods rely more or less on the intent of the law. In some cases it is Purposivism, which has rules. In some cases it is Consequentialism, which has rules. In some cases it is Institutionalism, which has rules. In some cases it is Precedentialism, which has rules. In some cases it is Moralism, which has rules. In some cases it is Pragmatism, which has rules. In some cases it is Structuralism, which has rules.

Not only do all these reasoning frameworks have rules that should be followed and which are open to scrutiny by highers-up, peers, and the public to which the reasoning is mean to apply, they are clearly preferred (even by the SCOTUS supermajority) in many cases because they produce outcomes that appeal more naturally to an innate sense of justice, which is never a thing wholly separate from legislative intent. Textualists have fooled people into thinking theirs is the One and Only True Impartial and Infallible Way to rigorously think about laws and constitutions. Not only is that not true, they don't believe it. And paradoxically it tries to put itself above exactly the criticism that would reveal this.
 
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The ambulance driver broke the law.

ETA: Its not the judges role to rewrite the law as they see fit. That is the legislatures job.

You would be hard pressed to find an originalist who doesn't admit that sometimes the meaning isn't totally clear, (maybe Thomas), that does not mean the judge can just decide what the laws or constitution say without trying to figure out what the writers meant.

In this case is it not obvious just from the text that the people who drafted the statue never intended for it to be used against a first responder in a life or death situation?
 
Straw man. No one is claiming judges are rewriting laws.


Red herring. Agreed the legislature has the responsibility to make laws, but their dereliction or incapacity in doing so does not absolve judges of a responsibility to rule on questions properly before them in the absence of clear legislative prescription.


Even good-faith efforts at peering into the heads of people long dead are problematic. Hence best to admit to the problems rather than to pretend they don't exist. Besides, there are other traditions besides Textualism and Originalism that focus on legislative intent.

Purposivism aggressively asks, "What was the spirit of this law? What problem was it trying to solve? How should we apply it now that the problem is materially different?" Consequentialism pulls the analysis of intent out of a narrow, formalistic scope and tries to put it in a real-world context. "Did the Founders really intend a convicted criminal to have to sustain his sentence when he can show new evidence of his factual innocence?" It realizes that the law is not there merely to serve its own purposes.


As do lower courts. And when judges do that, they are enacting policy.


I didn't say anything about feelings. In my analogy, the umpire who resolved and ambiguity did so according to an externalized rationale that can be questioned, agreed with, disagreed with, and ultimately overruled by someone with a more appealing rationale and rational criticism of the former.

In contrast legal moralism is where we get such bedrock concepts as mens rea, which applies to whether an ambulance driver intended to inflict the wrong that the city fathers intended to prevent by forbidding vehicles in the park, and goes on to establish guilt or innocence by a balance of praiseworthy versus blameworthy intent. This is often the principle on which jury nullification arises, hence it is a kind of justice we know we want.


When a judge tries to figure out what a law means where the law is incomplete, unclear, or in conflict with another law—or how it should apply to the facts when those specific facts were not contemplated by the lawmakers—he is being a judge. When he renders his opinion after all that figuring out, he is enacting policy.


It's fantasy, a straw man. Nearly all interpretational methods rely more or less on the intent of the law. In some cases it is Purposivism, which has rules. In some cases it is Consequentialism, which has rules. In some cases it is Institutionalism, which has rules. In some cases it is Precedentialism, which has rules. In some cases it is Moralism, which has rules. In some cases it is Pragmatism, which has rules. In some cases it is Structuralism, which has rules.

Not only do all these reasoning frameworks have rules that should be followed and which are open to scrutiny by highers-up, peers, and the public to which the reasoning is mean to apply, they are clearly preferred (even by the SCOTUS supermajority) in many cases because they produce outcomes that appeal more naturally to an innate sense of justice, which is never a thing wholly separate from legislative intent.
Textualists have fooled people into thinking theirs is the One and Only True Impartial and Infallible Way to rigorously think about laws and constitutions. Not only is that not true, they don't believe it. And paradoxically it tries to put itself above exactly the criticism that would reveal this.
I am not aware of anyone claiming its infallible, that is also a fantasy. Things like mens rea also tend to be written into laws, its not fraud if you think you really are a psychic. Mens rea is the difference between murder and manslaughter. Jury nullification is also a bit different from judge nullification. Keep in mind, jury nullification also got a lot of klansmen off the hook back in the day.

So, I guess judges basing there decisions on purposivism, consequentialism, institutionalism, those are unbiased rulings, never just post hoc rationalization for outcomes those judges wanted to begin with? All of those things can have rules but if it doesn't start with what does this thing say and what was it meant to say, I don't see how you get around it basically being a judge just deciding that the law is what they want it to be.

So, it still seems to me that the primary objection to originalism is the outcomes and not really the method.
 
In this case is it not obvious just from the text that the people who drafted the statue never intended for it to be used against a first responder in a life or death situation?
They should have been clear, it's not the judge's job to read their mind. If I were the judge, I'd either find the defendant guilty and give him the lightest possible sentence. Some originalist would say you should then look at the debates had while making the law or common law or what not. All reasonable, just assuming the folks that wrote the law meant what I think they should have meant or probably meant, nah.
 
I am not aware of anyone claiming its infallible, that is also a fantasy.
Excuse the hyperbole, then. Textualism and/or Originalism is postured as the preeminent method of statutory and constitutional interpretation because it alleges that it disallows any form of judicial discretion or opinion and relies solely on objective facts from history or language. Claiming to be immune from the frailty and vagary of human judgment necessarily also claims that it achieves a higher degree of correctness, however you want to reckon that concept.

Things like mens rea also tend to be written into laws...
...or sometimes not, which is why the study of law requires studying the foundational moral and logical principles on which it is based. These are sometimes manifest in written statute and sometimes manifest in the way the law is administered and applied in courts.

Jury nullification is also a bit different from judge nullification. Keep in mind, jury nullification also got a lot of klansmen off the hook back in the day.
Just as textualism let many criminals off the hook until we applied Pragmatism to make reasonable exceptions to the exclusionary rule. The point is not that these various traditions of interpretations are individually plenipotentiary or infallible or even necessarily always better. The point is that each of them contributes to our legal system in ways that even avowed textualists recognize, and which should therefore continue to enjoy favor. To suddenly foreclose all traditions but one where they would most count is pretextual. The cover story is that textualism is the one system that cannot be misused to support a predetermined conclusion. The fact is that textualism is a system where you can do just that with the least risk of detection.

So, I guess judges basing there decisions on purposivism, consequentialism, institutionalism, those are unbiased rulings, never just post hoc rationalization for outcomes those judges wanted to begin with?
They can be applied as post hoc rationalizations, just as textualism and originalism can—and provably have been.

Justice Thomas in Bruen paints a fanciful history of colonial gun rights legislation in an attempt to show how people at the time understood the right to bear arms. His historical analysis has been roundly criticized by professional historians who can show ample evidence of historical legal practice that contradicts Thomas' analysis. Thomas is no more a historian than he is a gunsmith—either way, he simply ignored the history that disputed his desired outcome. Even if you don't believe people like Saul Cornell or Noah Feldman, the fact remains that the actual history is not as clear-cut and unequivocal as Justice Thomas painted it.

And the mere existence of such a debate reveals the classic problem with originalism or textualism. It's always possible to cherry-pick your history or your linquistics to support whatever conclusion you want to draw. This is quite obviously what Thomas did in Bruen. Someone reading the opinion would rightly say, "But Thomas' conclusions are supported by history." That's the joy of cherry-picking. The reader likely has no idea what was left out because, well, it was left out. Thomas' conclusions are supported by the history he chooses to tell you about.

You seem to be proceeding from the premise that textualism and originalism magically eliminate the possibility of reaching for a desired outcome by some "mathematical" (in @Suddenly's wording) guarantee and are therefore self-evidently preferable, whereas other methods either fail to make that guarantee or explicitly reject it. That premise is false. Neither textualism nor originalism prevents a judge from reaching for a desired conclusion and cherry-picking the textual or historical evidence in order to get there in a putatively textualist way.

All of those things can have rules but if it doesn't start with what does this thing say and what was it meant to say, I don't see how you get around it basically being a judge just deciding that the law is what they want it to be.
Because if a judge offers a bad rationale, other judges farther up will point this out, as will the public. Admitting that you're applying a rationale invites others to examine it and naturally induces you to strengthen it. Applying a rationale but denying that you're doing it paradoxically leads to poorer reasoning; you have advertised that there is no dispute to be had because the conclusion is a foregone fact of history. If you pretend that it's impossible to break the rules, or that there are no rules, or that the rules are self-evident and obvious, then you're trying to place your rationale beyond rational inquiry. This is what textualism and originalism do: they simply declare themselves to be above prejudice while doing absolutely nothing to guarantee it.

Keep in mind that not all non-textualist approaches are just throwing logic or fairness away and relying upon vibes. The balancing tests favored by Pragmatism still require thought, precedent, and evidence. A test that balances the individual's right to bear arms with the government's duty to protect its citizens is not just vibes, does not exclude factual evidence, and does not ignore how other courts have wrestled with the same facts. It's not textualist, but it's still a way of administering law that still has a foothold in what courts do. However, it does require a judge to judge and put the reasons for that judgment on the table for inspection.

So, it still seems to me that the primary objection to originalism is the outcomes and not really the method.
The primary objection to originalism and textualism was and has always been that they lie about what they are in order to hide the obvious shortcomings of the method. It hides obvious policy preferences by denying as dictum that a policy preference can arise in the method.

Textualism purports to achieve more legally favorable outcomes because it purports to apply a method that guarantees them. Judging the method by the kinds of outcomes it produces is something that's taught to law students. Other traditions also purport to achieve legally favorable outcomes (although perhaps by different criteria) by applying methods that incorporate the evaluation of the outcome, not just by vibes but by rational, evidence-based standards. Textualism, however, is predicated on a flawed premise that undermines the impartiality the method proposes. It further conceals those flaws with nothing more than pretext. The end result is an outcome whose legal value is not structurally guaranteed by the underlying method, but is postured as one that must be accepted as good law no matter how silly, because of structural guarantees of impartiality.
 
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1. Textualism and originalism don't claim to be the preeminent form of jurisprudence any more than any other jurisprudence. What judge would knowingly use lesser form jurisprudence than the preeminent?

2. Hypocrisy does not demonstrate the failings of Originalism just the failings of the judge.

3. Nope, people are all human and subject to human failings, like bias and post hoc rationalization. Originalism is the attempt to interpret the law via the meaning at the time it was passed. Textualism is the attempt to interpret it by the plain meaning of the language. I'm saying that if someone is claiming to do that, there is a standard by which we can tell if they are doing that. The alternative to attempting to apply the law as written or intended is something other than that. Pragmatism, consequentialism, ect don't rule out either originalism or textualism. They should definitely come after the attempt to figure what the lay was suppose to mean. That is originalism.

4. If an originalist offers bad reasoning, the same is true, up to the supreme court, true regardless of your jurisprudence. Not flaw of originalism or textualism, a flaw of humans. Nobody that I know have as claimed there is nothing to dispute within originalist jurisprudence. Language being what it is, meaning is not always clear, laws conflict with one another. Two originalists can and often do come to different conclusions. Which I'm sure is true no matter what philosophy the judge claims.

5. Things like the balancing test are fine after the actual meaning of the words has been investigated. That paragraph is all also true of originalism and textualism.

6. Again, hypocrisy does not make someone wrong it just makes them human. I think nobody should drink alcohol, I drink alcohol, that makes me a hypocrite but I'm still right about alcohol being a poison with almost no dose low enough to be healthy.

I think you are ascribing motives you can't really know. They aren't lying, they believe they are trying to figure out original meaning, they think they are doing their best to avoid bias. That they fail still does not make them wrong. Even if they were just lying, still doesn't make them wrong.

ETA,

I've got to figure out how to use the quotes correctly, this would likely make more sense if I could.
 
They should have been clear, it's not the judge's job to read their mind. If I were the judge, I'd either find the defendant guilty and give him the lightest possible sentence. Some originalist would say you should then look at the debates had while making the law or common law or what not. All reasonable, just assuming the folks that wrote the law meant what I think they should have meant or probably meant, nah.

No reading minds. Just reading the sentence knowing it is a town council referring to a park and stated in general terms.

Reading a text correctly does not require completely brain dead hyperliteralism. The proposed statute does not specify a motor vehicle so are we convicting people in a mechanized wheelchair? A bicycle? A plain wheelchair? These are technically vehicles. A guy pulling his kid in a wagon? Someone with wheeled luggage?
 
No reading minds. Just reading the sentence knowing it is a town council referring to a park and stated in general terms.

Reading a text correctly does not require completely brain dead hyperliteralism. The proposed statute does not specify a motor vehicle so are we convicting people in a mechanized wheelchair? A bicycle? A plain wheelchair? These are technically vehicles. A guy pulling his kid in a wagon? Someone with wheeled luggage?
This example would require the council to be brain dead. A judge's job is not to think for the legislative body or fill in the blanks in badly written laws. Totally reasonable for the judge to state in their ruling that the law is poorly written.
 
1. Textualism and originalism don't claim to be the preeminent form of jurisprudence any more than any other jurisprudence.
Yes they do. They have all but taken over law schools, which is why Justice Kagan quipped, "We're all textualists now." She was commenting on the eviction of all other schools of thought from schools of law.

Note: to avoid the awkward phrasing I'm going to say only "textualist" or "originalist" and assume the other is also meant, except where noted.

What judge would knowingly use lesser form jurisprudence than the preeminent?
The whole notion of pre-eminence is a textualist contrivance. It's exactly the insidious policy foist that @Suddenly referred to. None of the other interpretational traditions claim to be the best. Only textualism makes the claim that there can be a pre-eminent tradition and that it's the one by virtue of its claim to avoid discretionary judgment.

Hypocrisy does not demonstrate the failings of Originalism just the failings of the judge.
Textualism is hypocritical from the start. It proposes to eliminate discretionary judgment and thereby reduce or eliminate prejudiced outcomes. But it does nothing to guarantee this. Your criticism of the other -isms was that they did nothing to stop prejudicial decisions. Neither does textualism, but textualism commits hypocrisy by providing cover for someone who wants to hide a prejudice. It allows the judge to point to something from history and say, "See, it is thus!" and that ends the analysis.

The other -isms acknowledge that a judge's discretion is involved and places that discretion on display for subsequent approval or disapproval.

Originalism is the attempt to interpret the law via the meaning at the time it was passed. Textualism is the attempt to interpret it by the plain meaning of the language.
These are what they aspire to be, and in an ideal world might actually succeed at. But each of these systems proposed to arrive at more legally acceptable outcomes by claiming to remove judicial discretion. In fact, they merely hide it. Both are predicated on the assumption that the information required to support the analysis is available in the historical or statutory record, that it accurately represents what is sought, and that the parties or the judge are capable of discovering it and properly understanding it. Because those are hard problems, it's hard to posture them as a guarantee of legal value in the outcome. And because they are hard problems, it's easy to hide a nefarious scheme in them.

To be sure, many other -isms suffer from the same or similar circumstances since ascertaining the intent of the law is part of most interpretive traditions. (Not textualism per se, because it presumes that the original intent and meaning of the law should have been expressed in its language, and failing that it is irrelevant.)

I'm saying that if someone is claiming to do that, there is a standard by which we can tell if they are doing that.
There are standards of evaluation for all interpretational models. However, only textualism intentionally makes it hard to do that by hiding behind a veneer of objective scholarship. If it takes a PhD in history to set straight a judge's warped view of the relevant history, then the judge's rationale is not materially open to scrutiny.

The alternative to attempting to apply the law as written or intended is something other than that.
Asked and answered. The competitors to textualism also attempt to discover original or written meaning, but they don't fetishize it and they don't stop there.

Pragmatism, consequentialism, ect don't rule out either originalism or textualism.
Your cart is before the horse. Textualism precludes other interpretational modes. After you discover the "plain" or "original" meaning of the text, you aren't allowed to depart from the rule thus derived. If the text of the law says, "no vehicles in the park," you are not permitted to use pragmatism and say, "Surely they didn't mean emergency vehicles." You aren't allowed to use legal moralism and say, "But the driver didn't intend to cause the consequences the law enjoined; he was following a higher purpose."

They should definitely come after the attempt to figure what the lay was suppose to mean.
They do.

That is originalism.
Originalism stops there, though. Once the original meaning is "found," no further contextualization or refinement is supposed to ensue, even if the outcome is patently absurd. In fact, balancing tests from pre-textualist jurisprudence are being eliminated in favor of a "because we say so" textualist approach. The so-called Lemon test was tossed out in Kennedy v. Bremerton School District. A bulwark standard that stood for decades went away on the most obviously biased of pretexts.

Balancing tests expressly require judgment, which is important because these judgments are narrowly tailored to the fact patterns under examination. These are not just vibes, though. They rely on precedent, evidence, and logic that can be attacked. Yes, they rely on judgment that has the potential to vary from judge to judge. But they are honest about where that judgment comes from. Textualism just says, "Sorry that's what the text says," while hiding the possibility that the argument in that case is no less discretionary than a non-textualist approach.

Not flaw of originalism or textualism, a flaw of humans.
Yes, which makes textualism's promise to eliminate prejudice all the more laughable.

Justice Scalia took an obviously purposivist approach in Heller. He ruled that the spirit of the 2nd Amendment extended its protections to modern weapons too, even those that posed a far greater danger to the public than weapons in the 18th century. Textualism didn't work for his preferred policy, so he abandoned it. Originalism didn't work, so he abandoned it.

Language being what it is, meaning is not always clear, laws conflict with one another.
Which is why judges properly have discretion to propose policy that resolves these and other inherent flaws.

Two originalists can and often do come to different conclusions. Which I'm sure is true no matter what philosophy the judge claims.
A judge's discretion in non-textualist traditions is not just a vibe. A judge that might want to rule that our ambulance driver did not break the law would still be expected to develop a legal basis for that judgment. He could cite to other city laws exempting emergency vehicles (Structuralism). He could cite to court precedents absolving emergency vehicle operators of putative violations (Institutionalist). He could point out that the law, strictly interpreted, would lead to absurdity (Pragmatism) and must therefore be considered in context. In the most wibbly-wobbly-crimey-wimey tradition, he could find that the ambulance driver's sense of duty and the objective danger posed balanced favorably against the harm done to the park and created no intent toward crime (Moralism, Constructivism, etc.)

However, when two textualists disagree, one or both of them is clearly wrong. Or textualism per se is a failure because it can silently allow such failure. In that case, one or both of them has failed to ascertain the plain or original meaning of the law, either because their research is silently deficient or because the historical or textual record is inherently ambiguous. In that further case, the judge must apply his discretionary judgment to determine which of possibly many variants should apply.

Things like the balancing test are fine after the actual meaning of the words has been investigated.
Nope. Textualism is hostile to balancing tests because balancing tests place human discretionary judgment at the nexus of judgment, not the objectively-determined meaning of the text. It's all "history and tradition" now, as illustrated in Bruen.

Again, hypocrisy does not make someone wrong it just makes them human.
Again, while individual humans are fragile and hypocritical, textualism is inherently flawed and also systematically hypocritical because it denies the flaws and fails to check human hypocrisy.

They aren't lying, they believe they are trying to figure out original meaning, they think they are doing their best to avoid bias.
No. Thomas in Bruen. Roberts in the Obama rules case. Not only are they utterly failing to avoid bias, they're explicitly using the flaws of textualism to mask their bias under an undeserved cloak of impartiality.

To be sure, the court's supermajority does use other traditions. They just don't say so, and generally try to paste a pseudo-textualist veneer over it, because to admit that textualism doesn't answer the question is anathema. The Trump immunity case was reasoned almost entirely from the constructivist tradition—that the executive's immunity from criminal prosecution had to be pieced together from different passages in the Constitution. The textualist veneer came in the guise of the Vesting Clause, which Roberts has already tried to make support the Unitary Executive doctrine. But the heart of the argument is pure constructivism: the immunity doctrine must be construed from the Vesting Clause, the Preclusive Powers doctrine, and the general understanding of the separation of powers. There's no actual text to support Roberts' position.

As if to prove your point, the dissent is textualist. The Constitution provides explicitly for official immunity in some cases, but specifically not for the President. The textualist canons of construction say the omission is significant. The Constitution specifically provides that the President shall be subject to criminal prosecution. There is actual text to support the dissent's position. The dissent applied originalism to note that the Federalists explicitly made a former President subject to criminal proceedings specifically to distinguish the office from a monarchy. And it applied consequentialism to argue that sweeping immunity would create a lawless zone around the Presidency and that this was obviously not something the Founders intended—just as the city fathers patently did not intend to criminalize an ambulance driver responding to a life-threatening emergency in the park.

Yes, two textualists can differ, and the difference requires an application of discretion. This means the promises of textualism simply fail to materialize. And in this case it illustrates some pretty clear bias from the majority, masked under the guise of textualism.
 
They should have been clear...
They should have been, but they weren't.

it's not the judge's job to read their mind.
Originalism is only a step or two away from mind-reading. Be that as it may, it is still the court's duty to render a just verdict.

If I were the judge, I'd either find the defendant guilty and give him the lightest possible sentence.
A conviction per se is not a light thing, even if the sentence is minimal or suspended. Even misdemeanor convictions can have a far-reaching effect on people's lives. And for some offenses, mandatory sentencing applies.

@Suddenly makes some important points which for me help decide what a court should do.
The proposed statute does not specify a motor vehicle so are we convicting people in a mechanized wheelchair? A bicycle? A plain wheelchair? These are technically vehicles. A guy pulling his kid in a wagon? Someone with wheeled luggage?
A court can then acquit on due process. In order for a law to result in criminal liability, it has to say specifically what conduct is unlawful. If it is ambiguous, as it is here, then ambiguity is resolved in favor of the defendant. This is part of what constitutes due process. And the message is sent to the city council that the law is not enforceable as written.

But all these rather disingenuously disposes of the hypothetical without addressing the questions it raises.

All reasonable, just assuming the folks that wrote the law meant what I think they should have meant or probably meant, nah.
Straw man. Non-textualists don't just apply vibes. What makes these traditions useful is that they don't stop at the text or dubious attempts to ascertain the "true" meaning and thus mechanically determine an outcome. They don't read laws in a vacuum pierced only by vague recollections of meaning or intent. They apply other reasonably reliable and transparent methods to ascertain how the law should be read in light of the given facts. You're pushing the false dichotomy that the only problems with textualism are in its individual practitioners and that anything but textualism/originalism is some sort of unruly free-for-all.
 
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