theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
This sounds more like Robert Heinlein's idea of utopia (especially the part about brothers and sisters!) than like any kind of society that I or anyone else ever grew up in.
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Does 'rape culture' accurately describe (many) societies?
- Thread starter Poem
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arthwollipot
Limerick Purist Pronouns: He/Him
Did I say it was one you grew up in?
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
Yes. You said that it was the experience of people who didn't have the Internet in their pocket, throughout history.
It certainly wasn't my experience, in the late 1900s.
I doubt it was a very common experience at all, for most children in the West, in the past couple hundred years.
arthwollipot
Limerick Purist Pronouns: He/Him
It may be news to you that there's a lot more history than just the last couple of hundred years.
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
It's not news to me at all. But "throughout history" does include the last couple of hundred years. When you say, "it was not difficult for children throughout history to see sex", you're grossly misrepresenting the most recent historical period. You've crafted a utopian myth that is not characteristic of the modern period. It's been generations - many, many generations - since European children were commonly entertained by their parents banging it out in the living room. If that was ever actually a thing.
arthwollipot
Limerick Purist Pronouns: He/Him
I think you know exactly what I was talking about and are being disingenuously pedantic for the sake of an argument. Sorry, I'm not going to be playing that game with you this time.
Poem
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It's everyone's business if human relationships are so poor that it is having a deleterious effect on society. And they are. Unless we encourage relationships that nurture children in a positive way then we aren't ever going to achieve the civilisation we wish for.
Porn does not encourage such a society. Kids (it's the males) who make deepfakes of other kids and their teachers (in general, females) have absorbed the message that sex is just a commodity...and nothing special.
arthwollipot
Limerick Purist Pronouns: He/Him
Evidence?
Poem
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I mentioned 1 in 3 or 4 USA kids without their biological father.
Flooding the net with porn does not encourage healthy relationships. In the UK, 280,000 unborn humans have their lives terminated each year. Not good either.
Our laissez-faire attitude to sex has consequences.
No, the message they've got is that doing that will make their mates think they're hilarious and transgressively cool. They are one million percent doing stuff like that for Little Snot Social Cred. The only thing sex has to do with it is that it's a big taboo so you get easy attention for breaking it. And it's not even hard work!
acbytesla
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The problem of course is correlation is not causation. There are lots of differences between the US and other countries.
In the US I'd look at the effects of perverse incentives in social programs over the last half century or more, and the worship of rugged individualism before I'd look at porn. Disrespecting the mothers of your kids as some people do is not, I think, down to porn.
That is to say, my opinion is if you magic-wand-waved away porn ever having been a thing, the absentee father problem in the US would not significantly change. I could be wrong but so far I haven't seen anything besides correlation offered as evidence.
I mean, apart from anything else, some of those absentee fathers are dead.
That is to say, my opinion is if you magic-wand-waved away porn ever having been a thing, the absentee father problem in the US would not significantly change. I could be wrong but so far I haven't seen anything besides correlation offered as evidence.
I mean, apart from anything else, some of those absentee fathers are dead.
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arthwollipot
Limerick Purist Pronouns: He/Him
First, you have to demonstrate that this is true. You haven't.
Second, you have to demonstrate that this is a consequence of porn. You haven't.
Third, you have to demonstrate that this is bad for society. You haven't.
Poem
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What is your definition of cheating and why is it bad?
acbytesla
Penultimate Amazing
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Oh cmon. You can't be this stupid. Cheating is a breach of trust. If your partner believes that he or she is in a monogamous relationship and you have sex with someone else, you're cheating. If you have a polyamarous relationship or understanding with your partner, than having sex with someone else is not cheating.
Large families were living in single rooms in the 1900s and babies were still being delivered by the stork. I don't know exactly how many dead brothers and sisters (and dead cousins) my maternal grandmother's parents had so don't know the exact highest number but her family including two of her grandparents consisted of at least 8 people living in a single room in the early 1900s when she was born, there were then at least another 4 pregnancies after her. They may have been fanatical Christians so pretended no one ever had sex but they certainly were.
Poem
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In the same way, if your partner considers masturbating to porn cheating, then it's cheating - but you have already ruled that out.
ETA:
And you still having explained why cheating is 'bad'.
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The answer is in the question you ask. "Cheating" is (Cambridge): "to behave in a dishonest way in order to get what you want", informal "to have a secret sexual relationship with someone who is not your husband, wife, or usual sexual partner:" What specific form of activity is considered "cheating" will be part of the relationship and will vary.
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Poem
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In other words, it is wrong to rule out porn as a form of cheating. The difference between orgasming in the flesh with someone who is not your current partner/spouse and doing so virtually to porn isn't substantial.