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Ed Israel/US Attacks Iran /Yet Another Country/Iran

Gord_in_Toronto said:
That assumes that every player is rational. I fear that that may not be true.
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Huh, I assume every player isn't rational:

Trump
Netanyahu
Whichever religious zealot/s are running the IRGC is
Mohammed Bone Saw

The only sane voices I can think of are 100% opposed to the attacks - Spain is a shining example, and Germany seems to be getting on the train pretty fast.

Xi still in danger of death from paroxysm of laughter.
 
Jack by the hedge said:
Also: Trump does not bluff and is prepared to unleash hell.
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Someone should buy that guy a pacifier - he's so far off even primary school level of threats it's absurd.

When you've already thrown out two "deadlines" you know he's going to miss the third.

The only good thing about the huge number of troops there or about to be there is it does tend to rule out nukes, because everyone's going to get hurt if that road opens up.

Much as I despise grunts, I still only don't want a ground attack to happen is because a lot of young, stupid blokes will get wasted. The fact that is won't work is neither her nor there.
 
The idiot in the White House and his moron of a Defense secretary made one of the worst mistakes any military leader can make"
They clearly undersetimated their enemy.
To clarify my you must hate your country comment, it was aimed by the posters the US has turned totally evil tone. I despide Trump and his adminstration, and he has made me ashasmed to be an American, but I am not willing to totally write the country off.
And I am concerned that now we have people rooting for Iran and China. That Iran is a theocracy ran by relgious fanatics and China is a ruthless totalrian dictorship..yes, it is worse in that regard then the US under Trump...seems to go right by them.
And the guy who compaed Iran with Ukraine is totally wrong. Ukraine never supported terrorists groups and generally be a bad actor the way Iran has.
Now that the war in the Hormuz is expanding, things are going to get worse. Only way to keep the starits open at this point is to occupy the land on both sides,now that the Yemani Houthis has entered the fight.
I think, though he is hesistating, in the end Trump will start a ground war. Backing down now would result in his humilation, he cannot endure that.
 
dudalb said:
The idiot in the White House and his moron of a Defense secretary made one of the worst mistakes any military leader can make"
They clearly undersetimated their enemy.
To clarify my you must hate your country comment, it was aimed by the posters the US has turned totally evil tone. I despide Trump and his adminstration, and he has made me ashasmed to be an American, but I am not willing to totally write the country off.
And I am concerned that now we have people rooting for Iran and China. That Iran is a theocracy ran by relgious fanatics and China is a ruthless totalrian dictorship..yes, it is worse in that regard then the US under Trump...seems to go right by them.
And the guy who compaed Iran with Ukraine is totally wrong. Ukraine never supported terrorists groups and generally be a bad actor the way Iran has.
Now that the war in the Hormuz is expanding, things are going to get worse. Only way to keep the starits open at this point is to occupy the land on both sides,now that the Yemani Houthis has entered the fight.
I think, though he is hesistating, in the end Trump will start a ground war. Backing down now would result in his humilation, he cannot endure that.
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They're not rooting for Iran because they hate America. They are rooting for Iran because they hate Jews. (Although the hatreds are correlated on the left.)
 
dudalb said:
That Iran is a theocracy ran by relgious fanatics....
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Just remind me again which side started this was to bring about the Apocalypse?

Both sides are run by religious fanatics.

dudalb said:
I think, though he is hesistating, in the end Trump will start a ground war. Backing down now would result in his humilation, he cannot endure that.
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He'll commit to a huge barrage and claim victory. Humiliation would be being forced to defend body bags arriving home.

jt512 said:
They're not rooting for Iran because they hate America. They are rooting for Iran because they hate Jews. (Although the hatreds are correlated on the left.)
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It says a lot about someone when they hand wave away criticism of genocide as racism.

Delusion is a wonderful thing.
 
So far the global production of helium, aluminium, fertiliser, log, oil has been significantly impacted. Infrastructure damage means even once peace is declared things can't immediately go back to normal. Helium supplies will impact chip manufacturing. China through rare earth and titanium supplies will significantly influence the US ability to re-arm (if nothing else making it more expensive). this war could tip the world into recession.
 
Ziggurat said:
I’m sure you don’t see the irony here.
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The ultimate irony here is a nation that's cried about the Holocaust for 80 years now perpetrating one as horrific as the one they endured.

Please keep defending or deflecting as you look into the eyes of the girl in my avatar and tell me where the irony was when her dad got handed her leg.
 
dudalb said:
And I am concerned that now we have people rooting for Iran and China. That Iran is a theocracy ran by relgious fanatics and China is a ruthless totalrian dictorship..yes, it is worse in that regard then the US under Trump...seems to go right by them.
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Iran is defending itself against an illegal invasion. Tell me why I shouldn't root for them. China is our neighbor and biggest trading partner. I'm not 'rooting' for them, but can't see why they shouldn't be treated with respect so long as they aren't being aggressive. As to what they do in their own country - that's their business not mine. If the people don't like it they know what to do.

People in China generally think the US is worse, and right now I'm inclined to agree with them. I would feel safer in China than the US right now. Not that I will ever visit either country, but my brother is intending to visit California in August and he is very concerned. The conditions of entry are ridiculous. They want access to all your social media accounts and emails, as well as other personal details. If they find anything they don't like - including anything that might be even tangentially related to Trump - they can deport you. Tell me how China is worse.

dudalb said:
And the guy who compaed Iran with Ukraine is totally wrong. Ukraine never supported terrorists groups and generally be a bad actor the way Iran has.
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Irrelevant. The US has supported terrorist groups and has generally been a bad actor. Right now it desperately needs regime change. Nevertheless I don't agree with violating its sovereignty. Any change should come from the citizens inside the country, otherwise it's illegitimate and will blow up later. How many times does this have to happen before we learn?

Past behavior should not be used as justification for illegal or immoral actions against a country. The important thing is to make agreements that encourage them to behave better in the future. The US is one of the worst offenders here because it often does the opposite, using the big stick far more often than it should which just makes the situation worse. In a few weeks it has managed to set the Middle East back decades. So frustrating because it didn't need to be this way. I fear that I will be dead before things get any better.
 
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I fear that for a certain type of mind, nukes are the logical next step.
Just like with Japan, an actual invasion would be costly in time and manpower even after massive fire bombing.
The nukes shocked them into capitulation, so obviously the same would work this time - and nukes can't be bad if the US is using them!
 
dudalb said:
The idiot in the White House and his moron of a Defense secretary made one of the worst mistakes any military leader can make"
They clearly undersetimated their enemy.
Click to expand...
I was watching one of the Final Destination movies last night. FD3, FWIW.

Very enjoyable but, of course, once you have watched one in the series you pretty much know what is going to happen in all the subsequent ones.

Seeing Trump attack Iran seems very much the same. The feeling that the same things are going to play out in this "movie" as they have in several other Middle Eastern wars, or indeed, as in Vietnam. On the battlefield, the US military can of course destroy the conventional military of their opponents, but the asymmetric aspect and the attempt to control the fallout just leads to a huge mess.
dudalb said:
I think, though he is hesistating, in the end Trump will start a ground war. Backing down now would result in his humilation, he cannot endure that.
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I don't even know if that is the problem. What if Trump says, "okay, we're done. Iran is defeated!" and attempts to back down?

What if Iran keeps the Strait of Hormuz closed, or at least makes it so perilous to cross that it amounts to the same thing?

The problem then is in order to reopen it without forcing it open, then the US will have to go to the negotiating table and find out what Iran wants in order to reopen it. That would be the humiliation.
 
The Great Zaganza said:
I fear that for a certain type of mind, nukes are the logical next step.
Just like with Japan, an actual invasion would be costly in time and manpower even after massive fire bombing.
The nukes shocked them into capitulation, so obviously the same would work this time - and nukes can't be bad if the US is using them!
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Trump said in his first term that he couldn't understand why he couldn't use nukes. I see no reason to think this time he wouldn't "authorise" nukes. Especially given the religious fanaticism of many people behind the likes of Project 25, Trump's own belief that he was saved by an act of god, that god is proud of Trump and Trump's dementia.
 
angrysoba said:
I was watching one of the Final Destination movies last night. FD3, FWIW.

Very enjoyable but, of course, once you have watched one in the series you pretty much know what is going to happen in all the subsequent ones.

Seeing Trump attack Iran seems very much the same. The feeling that the same things are going to play out in this "movie" as they have in several other Middle Eastern wars, or indeed, as in Vietnam. On the battlefield, the US military can of course destroy the conventional military of their opponents, but the asymmetric aspect and the attempt to control the fallout just leads to a huge mess.

I don't even know if that is the problem. What if Trump says, "okay, we're done. Iran is defeated!" and attempts to back down?

What if Iran keeps the Strait of Hormuz closed, or at least makes it so perilous to cross that it amounts to the same thing?

The problem then is in order to reopen it without forcing it open, then the US will have to go to the negotiating table and find out what Iran wants in order to reopen it. That would be the humiliation.
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The strait of Hormuz is open, if you ask permission from Iran. The US has to be careful (no chance) to not escalate to a point where Iran permanently closes the strait by mining. If there was a cease fire, then Iran wouldn't close the strait which is now open. They might still deny transit to US flagged vessels, sanction the US, until a peace treaty was agreed.
 
Darat said:
Trump said in his first term that he couldn't understand why he couldn't use nukes. I see no reason to think this time he wouldn't "authorise" nukes.
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I know several posters at Skeptical Community who would cheer if he did, along with all hard-core MAGA people, so it's not impossible.
 
Darat said:
Trump said in his first term that he couldn't understand why he couldn't use nukes. I see no reason to think this time he wouldn't "authorise" nukes. Especially given the religious fanaticism of many people behind the likes of Project 25, Trump's own belief that he was saved by an act of god, that god is proud of Trump and Trump's dementia.
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He keeps saying he is going to rain hell on them and use his secret and special weapons.
 
Donald must have won. Iran are sending him a Tribute out of respect.

Trump: As you know they’ve agreed to send 8 boats 2 days ago then they added another 2 so it was 10 boats. And now today as a tribute, I don’t know, I can’t define it exactly, I think out of respect, 20 boats of oil. Big big boats. Going through the Hormuz strait

Video link
 
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