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Ed Israel/US Attacks Iran /Yet Another Country/Iran

The Atheist said:
You get funnier by the post.

Given that America spent years funding Saddam Hussein to try to wipe the Iranians out, the moral high ground in the middle east is well below low-tide mark.
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More whataboutism.

You made the claim that Iran's actions regarding the strait were fair. Now you won't even defend your own claim. It's all just tu quoques.
 
He changed his mind

Bombing tomorrow

Trump: "Tomorrow morning, we were expected to blow up their largest electric generating plants that cost over $10 billion to build. One shot. It's gone. It collapses. Why would they want that? So they called. I didn't call. They called. They want to make a deal."

.https://x.com/atrupar/status/2036079548329013697?s=20
 
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Andy_Ross said:
He changed his mind

Trump: "Tomorrow morning, we were expected to blow up their largest electric generating plants that cost over $10 billion to build. One shot. It's gone. It collapses. Why would they want that? So they called. I didn't call. They called. They want to make a deal."
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Trump explains his fairytale to cover up for chickening out, so his team now know what fabulation they need to insist is true.

This will do to silence the press, who cannot call him a liar to his face. Unfortunately in any real negotiations which may follow, the Iranians now know for sure that Trump blinked first.
 
Ziggurat said:
There’s no maybe about it. And it’s not just the UK.

Europe is weak. That weakness was a deliberate choice. Trump’s call puts a spotlight on that shameful weakness. They can lecture us all they want to, but they can’t defend themselves and their interests.
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It was a deliberate decision because the US made commitments and assured nations that our bloated military would protect them.
We are liars.
The USA are the baddies.
We now are a shameful lying fascist regime ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ over our allies.

That may, just possibly, have given us a clue about how our allies view us, being that we are a bunch of fascist lying scum
 
Andy_Ross said:
COLLINS: You said there's many points of agreement with Iran. Can you give us a few?

TRUMP: Like 15 points

COLLINS: That Iran has said yes to?

TRUMP: They're not gonna have a nuclear weapon. That's number 1, 2, and 3

COLLINS: They've said yes to that?

TRUMP: They agreed to that
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Excruciating. It's like him telling us about his totally real Iranian girlfriend who goes to a different school (than the one he bombed).
 
Perfect talks

Q: Iran's foreign ministry says you're not telling the truth when it comes to productive conversations to end the war

TRUMP: Well, they're gonna have to get themselves better public relations people. We've had very strong talks. Mr Witkoff and Kushner had them. They went perfectly.

https://twitter.com/x/status/2036076985949069340
 
Donald will be in control

COLLINS: Who's gonna be in control of the Strait of Hormuz? Who's gonna be in control of that?

TRUMP: Uhhhh it'll be jointly controlled

COLLINS: By who?

TRUMP: Maybe me. Maybe me. Me and the next ayatollah, whoever that is. There will also be a serious form of regime change. Look at Venezuela.

https://twitter.com/x/status/2036084346583449771
 
autumn1971 said:
It was a deliberate decision because the US made commitments and assured nations that our bloated military would protect them.
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No. We never assured anyone except perhaps Japan that we would defend them so they didn't need to spend money on defense. That was never, ever the proposed deal with NATO. It was always a mutual defense pact, which means they needed to have their own defensive capabilities too. And we have been telling Europe for literally decades to increase military spending. Every single president in my lifetime has asked for Europe to increase military spending. They refused to listen. They chose to be freeloaders rather than equal partners.

And now they're mad that we don't want to let them be freeloaders anymore.
 
Ziggurat said:
No. We never assured anyone except perhaps Japan that we would defend them so they didn't need to spend money on defense. That was never, ever the proposed deal with NATO. It was always a mutual defense pact, which means they needed to have their own defensive capabilities too. And we have been telling Europe for literally decades to increase military spending. Every single president in my lifetime has asked for Europe to increase military spending. They refused to listen. They chose to be freeloaders rather than equal partners.

And now they're mad that we don't want to let them be freeloaders anymore.
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the US very much assured the Gulf States that they would protect them from Iran.
In return, they paid billions, and billions on top of that in arms purchases.
Now, Trump is trying to shake them down for more money at a time where the US is barely able to defend itself and Israel, never mind Qatar or the Emirates.
They have spend plenty of money and it didn't help - what makes you think that Europe spending more would make it safer?
 
The Great Zaganza said:
the US very much assured the Gulf States that they would protect them from Iran.
In return, they paid billions, and billions on top of that in arms purchases.
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Why would they buy weapons if they expected the US to handle all their defense needs? That doesn't make any sense.

Perhaps because they didn't actually expect the US to handle all their defense needs. But it is pretty funny that you basically refuted yourself here.
The Great Zaganza said:
They have spend plenty of money and it didn't help
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That's an unsupported assertion, and an illogical one as well.
The Great Zaganza said:
- what makes you think that Europe spending more would make it safer?
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Are you under the impression that defense spending has no connection to security? How do you figure?
 
Ziggurat said:
No. We never assured anyone except perhaps Japan that we would defend them so they didn't need to spend money on defense. That was never, ever the proposed deal with NATO. It was always a mutual defense pact, which means they needed to have their own defensive capabilities too. And we have been telling Europe for literally decades to increase military spending. Every single president in my lifetime has asked for Europe to increase military spending. They refused to listen. They chose to be freeloaders rather than equal partners.

And now they're mad that we don't want to let them be freeloaders anymore.
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Hardly "freeloaders" - (from nato.int)

NATO Defence Spending as a Percentage of GDP (Estimated 2024-2025)
  • Top Spenders: Poland (~4.1%–4.12%), Estonia (~3.4%), United States (~3.2%–3.4%), Latvia (~3.2%–3.4%), Greece (~3.1%).
  • Key Allies: United Kingdom (~2.3%), France (~2.0%), Germany (~2.0%).
  • Target Status: 18 nations met the 2% target in 2024, rising to 23+ in 2025.
 
Ziggurat said:
That's an unsupported assertion, and an illogical one as well.
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the burning oil facilities and stop of air traffic would suggest otherwise.
Ziggurat said:
Are you under the impression that defense spending has no connection to security? How do you figure?
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not nearly as much as trying to find diplomatic solutions between neighbors without US sticking its dick in and ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ things up for everyone.
The Gulf States had made pretty solid progress in normalizing relations with Iran until Trump and Netanyahu decided that peace was the last thing they could tolerate with Teheran.
 
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