Ed Israel/US Attacks Iran /Yet Another Country/Iran

[dudalb]

I know I am sounding like a broken record, but the single worst thing about the Arab.Israeli situation is the way the supporters of either side have such huge blinders.
And I still have never gotten a rational responce when I ask, if the "Zionist Enitity" is destroyed what happens to the Seven Million Jews now living in Israel. Please do not conjure up the mythical Secular Palestinian State, which nobody invovled seems to want, least of all HAMAS and HEZBOLLAH.

 

[dudalb]

No, they were a terrorist organization that behaved exactly like a terrorist organisation. There is no world in which the IRA would meet the definition of a freedom or resistance movement.

We will get into the shole debate about what a terrorist organition is.
For me the line is attacking civilians as a deliberate target. I repeat, Deliberate target.

No, they were a terrorist organization that behaved exactly like a terrorist organisation. There is no world in which the IRA would meet the definition of a freedom or resistance movement.

If you mean the Modern IRA, I agree.
The original IRA of the Irish War Of Indepence was another story.

 

[Planigale]

Still getting strong trumpkin vibes from how you minimize/deny HAMAS atrocities for then to immediately follow through with a whataboutism about the terrible things Israel has done. Especially the part where you also claim you condemn HAMAS. Feels a lot like how certain users here will deny, deflect, and excuse every time Dump does anything, but also claim they totally don't support him and would never vote for him.

I post supporting documents. Will you answer my question which infant deaths were you referring to? It is as if you rely one propaganda and make no attempt to find facts.

 

[Planigale]

Help me out here, I don't recall reading any stories in which the NLA, the Andartes, La Résistance, or even the German Resistance to Naziism were blowing up school buses and railway platforms full of passengers, gunning down women and children,setting fire to and beheading babies, or cutting off the breasts of women while they were still alive.

This must be an area of WW2 I haven't read about - I'd apppreciate some links to stories about this so I can get up to speed.

If you are referring to the alleged beheaded babies on 7/10 that has long been proven to be fictitious / black propaganda.

ETA
This is the danger of black propaganda. The Israeli government put out a claim that Hamas had beheaded infants, once this fact was proven to be untrue it then makes any other claims by the Israeli government about the crimes by Hamas on 7/10 dubious, requiring verification. I have no doubt that sex crimes were committed on 7/10. There has been little forensic evidence to support the claims of systematic or mass rape.

How 2 debunked accounts of sexual violence on Oct. 7 fueled a global dispute over Israel-Hamas war

The United Nations and other organizations have presented credible evidence that Hamas militants committed sexual assault during their Oct. 7 attack in southern Israel. But some accounts from that day proved untrue.

www.pbs.org

Reasonable Grounds to Believe Conflict-Related Sexual Violence Occurred in Israel During 7 October Attacks, Senior UN Official Tells Security Council | UN Meetings Coverage and Press Releases

There are reasonable grounds to believe that conflict-related sexual violence — including rape and gang-rape — occurred across multiple locations of Israel and the Gaza periphery during the attacks on 7 October 2023, a senior United Nations official reported to the Security Council today, as she...

press.un.org

While there are reasonable grounds to believe that conflict-related sexual violence occurred in the Nova music festival site, Route 232, and kibbutz Re’im, reported incidents of rape could not be verified in other locations. Concurrently, the team determined that at least two allegations of sexual violence in kibbutz Be’eri — widely reported in the media — were unfounded.

Questions and Answers: The Hamas-Led Armed Groups' October 7, 2023 Assault on Israel

Human Rights Watch research found that Palestinian armed groups involved in the assault on Israel on October 7, 2023, committed numerous violations of international humanitarian law – also known as the laws of war – that amount to war crimes.

www.hrw.org

Human Rights Watch’s investigation found evidence of acts of sexual and gender-based violence, including forced nudity, and the taking and the posting on social media, both without consent, of sexualized images. Human Rights Watch was not able to gather verifiable information through interviews with survivors of or witnesses to rape during the assault on October 7, and there is only one public account reportedly from such a survivor.

https://electronicintifada.net/blogs/ali-abunimah/israel-still-cant-find-any-7-october-rape-victims-prosecutor-admits

In her Ynet interview, Gez confirms that 15 months after the events, Israel still has not identified a single victim in which a prosecution can be brought against an alleged perpetrator of a sexual attack.

“Unfortunately, it will be very difficult to prove these crimes,” Gez said.

“In the end, we have no complainants,” Gez admitted, noting the vast gap between public perceptions and factual reality.

“Comparing what was presented in the media to what will come together in the end, it will be altogether different,” Gez said, offering the usual spin that this is “Either because the victims were murdered or because women who were raped are not ready to reveal it.”

But this frequent excuse for why no victims have been identified cannot account for the total lack of forensic, visual or credible eyewitness evidence, especially when the sexual attacks were supposedly so widespread on 7 October.

And this is not for lack of trying to find victims.

“We turned to women’s rights groups and we asked for cooperation,” Gez stated. “They told us that they were simply not approached” – in other words no one came forward.

This corroborates the experience of The New York Times which extensively canvassed Israeli hospitals, rape crisis centers, sexual assault hotlines and other specialized facilities, and could not find a single victim of a 7 October sexual attack.

“No one had met a victim of sexual assault,” Anat Schwartz, the reporter who did the research for the Times, explained in an interview with Israel’s Channel 12 last year.

 

[lionking]

And yet they were necessary to achieve Irish Independence.

Plenty of people would consider them an ugly but necessary form of resistance, justified by the ends

I think it's historically inaccurate to think that resistance can work if it's not violent. Successful removals of occupying powers from within always operated on a violent and a diplomatic angle simultaneously.

You are wrong (and I have Irish heritage) but take this elsewhere. This is about Iran.

 

[Planigale]

An interesting explanation for the attack on Iran.
1) Israel was going to attack Iran
2) When Israel attacks Iran, Iran will respond by attacking US facilities in the region.
3) Therefore the US is justified in pro-active defence by attacking Iran

 

[Planigale]

Israel is sending land forces into Lebanon. In addition to continuing to attack Beirut by air.

The US is supposed to be guaranteeing the withdrawal of IDF from Lebanon which it never did.

 

[Planigale]

Meanwhile Jewish terrorism in the West Bank escalates.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/two-men-shot-dead-by-settlers-in-northern-west-bank-palestinian-authority-says/

Two Palestinian men were shot dead by settlers on Monday in the Palestinian village of Qaryut, south of Nablus in the northern West Bank, the Palestinian Authority’s Health Ministry said.

The Palestinian Red Crescent Society reported that another three people were injured by the settler gunfire, including a 15-year-old boy who was shot in the shoulder.

Data published by the IDF and Shin Bet security agency in January showed a 27 percent rise in settler attacks in 2025 compared to the previous year.
In addition to the overall rise in settler attacks, 2025 also saw an increase in the number of serious incidents that included shootings, arson and other violent crimes, with 128 compared to 83 in 2024 and 54 in 2023, according to the data.
Extremist Jewish attacks, which now occur on a near-daily basis, largely go unchecked. Prosecutions are rare, and convictions are even rarer. Critics have accused the government, the most hard-right in Israel’s history, of shrugging off the attacks.

Unfortunately Israeli security forces are often complicit. Under other circumstances the US might take a view on state sponsored terrorists killing US citizens, but apparently not where Israel is concerned.

Settler-only IDF units functioning as ‘vigilante militias’ in West Bank

Exclusive: ‘Regional defence’ settler units are escalating violent displacement of Palestinians, Israeli reservists and activists say

www.theguardian.com

In other areas hagmar forces have been implicated in more extreme violence, including last year killing an elderly Palestinian man, and running overanother Palestinian with an all-terrain vehicle.

The hagmar system had led to “the establishment of what are effectively settler militias within the IDF’s own ranks”, said Nadav Weiman, the executive director of Breaking the Silence, an advocacy group for former Israeli soldiers. “These soldier-settlers are driven by a violent, zero-sum ideology, and have all the authority of regular IDF soldiers to put that ideology into action.”

If US citizens can be murdered with impunity, what chance of justice can Palestinians expect?

U.S. Citizens Killed by Israel Soldiers and Settlers in Palestine - DAWN

AMERICAN BODY COUNT They were journalists reporting the news. Aid workers delivering food. Peace activists protesting home demolitions. Teenagers shot at checkpoints. A 78-year-old grandfather detained and left to die. Not one of their killers has been held criminally accountable by the Israeli...

dawnmena.org

 

[smartcooky]

If you are referring to the alleged beheaded babies on 7/10 that has long been proven to be fictitious

Hamas propaganda

 

[Planigale]

Hamas propaganda

No, Israeli propaganda.

You really need to educate yourself about the facts.

Hamas baby beheading hoax - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Client Challenge

 

[Gulliver Foyle]

No, Israel is the good guys because even though they do horrible things and have genocidal goals, they happen to be a democracy. The same way HAMAS are the good guys because even though they do horrible things and have genocidal goals, they happen to be losing the war. An no, it makes no sense to me, either. It's like watching two drunk goons fight in a bar (with the intent to kill one another). I don't care which one wins, I just want them to stop fighting already.

ETA:
Also, to whoever needs to hear it, whitewashing Palestinian terror by trying to compare it to resistance fighting in World War II is still absolutely reprehensible. Shame on you. (ETA2: And spare me whataboutisms about IDF and Israeli settlers. They are also horrible).

Why? It's the truth. Israel has been conducting a decades long illegal occupation ad genocide of the Palestinian people. The rules painstakingly built after World War 2 were there to try and prevent, or at the very least hold to account, such evils; because they saw the horrors the nazis inflicted on Eastern Europe.

Israel in this matter are follwing the nazi playbook almost to the letter and Hamas are pretty closely following the actions of the anti-nazi paritsans in Eastern Europe. To condemn Hamas for their actions against Israeli crimes against humanity, you logically must condemn anti nazi partisan actions.

 

[lionking]

Israel in this matter are follwing the nazi playbook almost to the letter and Hamas are pretty closely following the actions of the anti-nazi paritsans in Eastern Europe. To condemn Hamas for their actions against Israeli crimes against humanity, you logically must condemn anti nazi partisan actions.

Parody, right? Very funny.

 

[Roger Ramjets]

We will get into the shole debate about what a terrorist organition is.
For me the line is attacking civilians as a deliberate target. I repeat, Deliberate target.

If you mean the Modern IRA, I agree.
The original IRA of the Irish War Of Indepence was another story.

You can make up whatever definition you like, but that doesn't make it correct. The clue is in the name:-

Definition of terrorism

The term "terrorism" comes from French terrorisme, from Latin: terror, "great fear", "dread", related to the Latin verb terrere, "to frighten"...
Definitions of terrorism typically emphasize one or more of the following features: Its effect of extreme fear... The following criteria of violence or threat of violence usually fall outside of the definition of terrorism: Wartime (including a declared war) or peacetime acts of violence committed by a nation state against another nation state regardless of legality or illegality and are carried out by properly uniformed forces or legal combatants of such nation states

Targeting civilians is not 'terrorism' unless it is done to invoke fear. If the intention is just to kill them it's something else. It doesn't generally apply to 'properly uniformed forces' because they are usually carrying out a military objective such as occupying a territory or destroying an enemy's ability to wage war. Terrorists generally don't have the capacity to do that, so they turn to terrorizing the population instead in the hope that the people will accede to their political demands.

Terrorists don't actually want to kill civilians, they want to instill fear in them. It just so happens that the fear of death is often most easily invoked by actually killing a few of them.

 

[Flo]

Looks like Flight POTUS47 is in a religious tailspin …

https://bsky.app/profile/jonathanlarsen.bsky.social%2Fpost%2F3mg4nxe64d22x

Jonathan Larsen

‪@jonathanlarsen.bsky.social
EXCLUSIVE: At more than 30 installations, U.S. commanders told troops the war on Iran is a Christian war.The Military Religious Freedom Foundation has been “inundated” with more than 110 complaints.One NCO said they were told the U.S. war is to bring about Armageddon and the return of Jesus…

 

[jimbob]

Meanwhile, Netanyahu has said that this is not going to be a forever war.

I guess he's an expert in those

 

[Ziggurat]

Israel is sending land forces into Lebanon. In addition to continuing to attack Beirut by air.

The US is supposed to be guaranteeing the withdrawal of IDF from Lebanon which it never did.

Hezbollah and Lebanon had obligations under that agreement which they never met. Israeli withdrawal was contingent on that.

 

[Ziggurat]

Why? It's the truth. Israel has been conducting a decades long illegal occupation ad genocide of the Palestinian people. The rules painstakingly built after World War 2 were there to try and prevent, or at the very least hold to account, such evils; because they saw the horrors the nazis inflicted on Eastern Europe.

Israel in this matter are follwing the nazi playbook almost to the letter and Hamas are pretty closely following the actions of the anti-nazi paritsans in Eastern Europe. To condemn Hamas for their actions against Israeli crimes against humanity, you logically must condemn anti nazi partisan actions.

Your moral inversion is perverse. First, obviously Israel isn't committing genocide, particularly a decades long one. The most obvious clue that even a moron could recognize is that the Palestinian population has been increasing for decades. That's not the Nazi playbook. But then, you aren't an idiot. You lie deliberately.

Second, Hamas is not fighting even remotely the same way anti-Nazi partisans fought. Your denial of Hamas atrocities reveals your hatred for what it is. You aren't anti-Nazi, you're taking the side of their true heirs, the people who still want to exterminate the Jews.

 

[The Great Zaganza]

Hamas is fighting the way Zionists say Jews should have fought the Nazis.
I guess in no small part that's what is so upsetting for them.

 

[Ziggurat]

Hamas is fighting the way Zionists say Jews should have fought the Nazis.
I guess in no small part that's what is so upsetting for them.

No, they are not.

 

[Ziggurat]

Targeting civilians is not 'terrorism' unless it is done to invoke fear.

Are you trying to argue that it’s ok to target civilians if the goal is something other than fear? If so, that’s a deeply immoral opinion. If not, this is a semantic quibble of no importance.