What did Democrats do wrong?

[wareyin]

So, no. You don't have such an example. That's all you have to say.

You have yet to explain why it is good when you do it but bad when they do it, not to mention a failure to provide any examples of elected Democrats or official Democratic candidates doing it at all.

 

[Reformed Offlian]

You have yet to explain why it is good when you do it but bad when they do it, not to mention a failure to provide any examples of elected Democrats or official Democratic candidates doing it at all.

If you want Donal to comment on whether it's "good when you do it", perhaps you should provide the requested examples of "you" actually "doing it" for them to comment on.

 

[wareyin]

If you want Donal to comment on whether it's "good when you do it", perhaps you should provide the requested examples of "you" actually "doing it" for them to comment on.

You're seriously asking for examples of Donal "telling you how much he hates a certain part of his party. Someone who will take right-wing bait every. damn. time."?

 

[dirtywick]

I know yu r but wut am i? Well, that sure won the argument.

i see more flailing stemming from confused hostility here. being rude because your frustrated.

eta: further, no amount of "seeing something from a different perspective" will change the fact that a bad decision is still a bad decision. When a choice has predictable and predicted outcomes that are disastrous for progressives, it doesn't become "good" just because progressives didn't want to consider the results. Results matter more than your perspective, and we are all living with the results of that strategy right now.

yet this dem strategy was the correct one to you lol

 

[wareyin]

i see more flailing stemming from confused hostility here. being rude because your frustrated.



yet this dem strategy was the correct one to you lol

You keep claiming that your reading comprehension is fine, but then still failing to understand that a: I already pointed out flaws in the dem strategy and b: I am discussing the far left voter strategy here. Perhaps you should work on that.

 

[dirtywick]

You keep claiming that your reading comprehension is fine, but then still failing to understand that a: I already pointed out flaws in the dem strategy and b: I am discussing the far left voter strategy here. Perhaps you should work on that.

not sure i made any claims about my reading comprehension

we are discussing whether or not the dems should bother pursing progressive voters. you say no because they are fickle, i disagreed with your characterization and the dems strategy not to pursue them

i understand you’re taking with several people at once here and may be confusing them with me. it can be difficult to keep track of several things at once when trying to land your goofball zingers lol

 

[Beelzebuddy]

I am accusing you of doing things that you do in the very post I am quoting. By claiming the party "eschewed" progressives when they demonstrably did not, you are telling progressives why they should not vote for the Dems, which gives power to MAGA. You guys all love to scream from the rooftops how all the Dems are to blame for 7 centrist votes, or how the Dems told you to ◊◊◊◊ off, and you keep on pretending that repeating claims over and over has no effect on the number of people who believe those claims.

I've admitted that assuming "reasonable" Republicans could be convinced to not vote for authoritarianism was a mistake, so this whole strawman of "Nothing! Nothing!" is just wrong. I agree that the 2016 Schumer calculation was a failure, but you're ignoring that the 2024 platform was the most progressive in history precisely because the party tried to fix that mistake. You're trying to have it both ways: blaming the party for "eschewing" you while you actively work to alienate the very voters you claim to represent. If you think "stepping on your own dick" is a bad strategy for Dems, why is it a brilliant strategy for the far left?

I hate to knock down this wonderful straw man you've built of me. It would be great to imagine my opinion makes any difference whatsoever, but that ain't the timeline we're in. I don't have a million followers on the gram or the toks hanging on my every word. I don't represent or speak for anyone but myself. I'm just a shmuck on the internet, same as you are. You'll need to look elsewhere for your persecution, I'm just pointing out the world is the way it is in hopes you'll get over yourself enough to get the hint.

You keep claiming that your reading comprehension is fine, but then still failing to understand that a: I already pointed out flaws in the dem strategy and b: I am discussing the far left voter strategy here. Perhaps you should work on that.

Well, if we're emphasizing reading comprehension here,

a: no you didn't. *I* pointed out flaws in the dem strategy and you agreed with some of them while upbraiding me for doing so in the same breath.

b: great to hear it, by all means let's discuss far left voter strategy. Here's the important thing: what do you think they want? I'll give you a hint. When Emily's Cat started in on the anti-trans crap and you got salty at him, imagine he was a Dem politician. What would you have wanted from him?

 

[Reformed Offlian]

You're seriously asking for examples of Donal "telling you how much he hates a certain part of his party. Someone who will take right-wing bait every. damn. time."?

No. I'm not going to entertain the pretense that you misunderstand.

 

[plague311]

Reading through the thread I get a lot of "damned if you, damned if you don't" vibes. Which is extremely common with a 2 party system.

No matter what the Dems do the answer to the question posed in the thread title is going to be "Everything" to a group of people here. Right now I'm perfectly fine with the Dem party allowing Trump to make mistakes and not interrupting him. He's ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ up all of the time and there's no way to keep up. Do we really want the Dems playing whack-a-mole and taking every single piece of rage bait that Trump throws out there? Hell no. Try to stay focused. Block bad policy when they're able, run on good policy as it pops up, and focus on taking the midterms. When\if they win the midterms pass policy that's good for the American people and force the GOP to block it. Should work.

 

[wareyin]

No. I'm not going to entertain the pretense that you misunderstand.

Interesting. What exactly do you think I am claiming that Donal does, especially as I highlighted that exact phrase that he wrote when I quoted him saying it, right before agreeing with him that is is a bad strategy that the left needs to stop doing?

 

[Reformed Offlian]

Interesting. What exactly do you think I am claiming that Donal does, especially as I highlighted that exact phrase that he wrote when I quoted him saying it, right before agreeing with him that is is a bad strategy that the left needs to stop doing?

Your feigned incomprehension is grating. I will clarify, not to accomdate you, but for the convenience of anybody who might just be confused by how this thread is unfolding.

This is what Donal asked you for examples of.

I asked for any left-wing candidate or elected official on the Democratic ticket who attacks other Democratic factions the way moderate/centrist/conservative Democratic candidates and officials do.

hth

 

[wareyin]

not sure i made any claims about my reading comprehension

you did

we are discussing whether or not the dems should bother pursing progressive voters. you say no because they are fickle, i disagreed with your characterization and the dems strategy not to pursue them

No, that was not the discussion at all. I honestly can't fathom how you got so turned around. At no point anywhere in this thread was there any suggestion that Dems should not bother pursuing progressive voters. And outside of the progressive "if you won't give me everything then you're giving me nothing" attitude, there is no belief that the Dems did not pursue them.

i understand you’re taking with several people at once here and may be confusing them with me. it can be difficult to keep track of several things at once when trying to land your goofball zingers lol

One of us is certainly having trouble keeping track of the conversation, I see.

 

[wareyin]

Your feigned incomprehension is grating. I will clarify, not to accomdate you, but for the convenience of anybody who might just be confused by how this thread is unfolding.

This is what Donal asked you for examples of.



hth

You may want to reread that sequence. That was in a response to my post quoting him.

 

[Donal]

You're seriously asking for examples of Donal "telling you how much he hates a certain part of his party. Someone who will take right-wing bait every. damn. time."?

what office do I hold? What influence in Democratic politics do I have?

 

[wareyin]

I hate to knock down this wonderful straw man you've built of me. It would be great to imagine my opinion makes any difference whatsoever, but that ain't the timeline we're in. I don't have a million followers on the gram or the toks hanging on my every word. I don't represent or speak for anyone but myself. I'm just a shmuck on the internet, same as you are. You'll need to look elsewhere for your persecution, I'm just pointing out the world is the way it is in hopes you'll get over yourself enough to get the hint.

Yes, yes, we do seem to be stuck on this whole shared chorus that progressives all keep repeating in unison: "My repetition of MAGA talking points where I tried to convince anyone who would listen that Dems are bad can in no way have had any effect, nor can the other couple of thousand of my compatriots saying the same thing."

Unfortunately, what "people are saying" really does have an effect. There is a reason bots are all over social media sharing ridiculously far right or far left ideas. They want people to think those ideas have traction, and take them and run with them. You are pouring your little cup of gasoline onto the fire and then claiming it doesn't matter because you are just one person with a cup. If enough people believe they have no effect, the fire never goes out.

Well, if we're emphasizing reading comprehension here,

a: no you didn't. *I* pointed out flaws in the dem strategy and you agreed with some of them while upbraiding me for doing so in the same breath.

Oh, ok, I "agreed" that there were flaws in the Dem strategy, and posted them myself several times. That surely is materially different.

eta: you know what? One of the flaws in the Dem strategy that I posted was an expectation that progressives would be rational and understand that allowing MAGA to win would be detrimental to their causes. I am honestly not seeing where you said that, but I will take your word that I was only agreeing with your claim there, too.

b: great to hear it, by all means let's discuss far left voter strategy. Here's the important thing: what do you think they want? I'll give you a hint. When Emily's Cat started in on the anti-trans crap and you got salty at him, imagine he was a Dem politician. What would you have wanted from him?

I am genuinely baffled by this. You are asking me to imagine a Democratic politician acting like a random person on the internet who has spent a decade posting far right content? I don't follow the point you are trying to make at all.

 

[wareyin]

what office do I hold? What influence in Democratic politics do I have?

So...we're still at "It's good when Donal does it, but bad when he imagines that someone else did it to him"?

 

[Beelzebuddy]

Yes, yes, we do seem to be stuck on this whole shared chorus that progressives all keep repeating in unison: "My repetition of MAGA talking points where I tried to convince anyone who would listen that Dems are bad can in no way have had any effect, nor can the other couple of thousand of my compatriots saying the same thing."

Unfortunately, what "people are saying" really does have an effect. There is a reason bots are all over social media sharing ridiculously far right or far left ideas. They want people to think those ideas have traction, and take them and run with them. You are pouring your little cup of gasoline onto the fire and then claiming it doesn't matter because you are just one person with a cup. If enough people believe they have no effect, the fire never goes out.

Oh, ok, I "agreed" that there were flaws in the Dem strategy, and posted them myself several times. That surely is materially different.

I am genuinely baffled by this. You are asking me to imagine a Democratic politician acting like a random person on the internet who has spent a decade posting far right content? I don't follow the point you are trying to make at all.

Ah, so we're not discussing far left voter strategy after all. Well then, I rescind my great to hear it.

 

[Reformed Offlian]

You may want to reread that sequence. That was in a response to my post quoting him.

That has no bearing on the content of the request, nor does it excuse your feigned confusion about the object of that request.

 

[Donal]

You have yet to explain why it is good when you do it but bad when they do it,

You have to show me when I said that.

not to mention a failure to provide any examples of elected Democrats or official Democratic candidates doing it at all.

really? You want an example of the DCCC creating a rule to blacklist any vendor who works with a challenger in a primary after 2018? You need an example of Nancy Pelosi breaking her own rule to use caucus resources, like the House Majority PAC, and campaign in primaries? With the likes of Sam Bankman-Fried and Mark Andreesen? (I keep bringing that up as an example of how hilariously out of touch she is and how easy it was to see that backfiring.)

Here's DINO Representative Tom Suozzi using Republican talking points and throwing LGBTQ+ people under the bus and trashing the progressive wing. Here's DINO Representative Seth Moulton doing the same.

You're more upset with random people on Twitter than the folks who have the actual power.

 

[wareyin]

Ah, so we're not discussing far left voter strategy after all. Well then, I rescind my great to hear it.

Actually, I discussed some of it in the first two paragraphs of the post you just quoted. I pointed out that your strategy is to repeat a "shared chorus" of MAGA talking points to convince progressives not to vote, which results in giving power to the far right.

Just because I am pointing out that your strategy is self-defeating and logically broken does not mean I am "not discussing" it. It just means you do not like my assessment of it. I am interested in the actual results of the choices you are making, not in playing make-believe.