Transwomen are not Women - Part 15

[Thermal]

You woefully misunderstand; I didn't say you hold "TRA positions" at all.

You do, however, "use their lingo" and therefore "wear their colors" according to your own heuristic.

You say I wear their colors and use their lingo. By any standard that would mean I hold their positions.

But reword it however you like. For the third time, what TRA lingo/colors am I sporting? Specifics, please.

 

[Thermal]

Do you understand the vibe you are giving off?

Yes, I don't like bigots and bullies. If you unplug from your foregone narrative, you'd see that it's all.my arguments and criticisms amount to.

Do you understand the vibe the TRAs are giving off?

Couldn't care less, as I've repeatedly said.

No, you don't. In fact, you complain quite loudly that we should never judge them by their vibe.

Factually untrue. I never say a word about them except to point out to you guys that they are not in this discussion, and it would be swellsies if you could stop arguing with voices in your heads.

 

[Thermal]

If that were true, Hunter Marquez would still be in uniform and Lia Thomas would still hold her Ivy League records.

Why? The military and competitive sports have carved out limited exceptions to the general application. Doesn't limit the other 95% of us.

 

[Thermal]

If there's om

I understand the vibe I'm giving off quite well, thank you...So what do you suggest?

Not claiming that transpeople are either mentally ill, misogynistic, or perverts would be a fresh haircut.

You scolding me about my "vibe" doesn't help,

I dont recall directing anything at you personally, but my memory isnt what it used to be.

if you don't understand it and won't suggest any solutions.

See above. Dropping the nasty ◊◊◊◊ does wonders for your appearance.

 

[Thermal]

Re: nomenclature. I did a pubmed search and see plenty of uses of "transwomen" as well "trans-identified individuals".

I saw a couple thousand too. Did you see anything about TIMs and TIFs?

As far as fostering dialogue- it seems we're at an impasse with terms - and pretty much everything else.

True dat. Some here have the starting assumption that woman = female, and gender doesn't exist, so the whole argument is dumbed down to "therefore, sex is all there is and 'sincere' transpeople don't exist". There's nowhere to go from there.

 

[Thermal]

It would be really refreshing if just once in a while you would call out the mean-spirited bullying that males with transgender identities engage in toward females.

They. Are. Not. In. This. Thread. I'm not arguing with voices in my head.

Or even call out the mean-spirited bullying that trans privilege supporters on this very site engage in toward those of us who recognize that males are not females, and that allowing males to have legal access to female spaces is a massive problem for females.

Should they appear here, I'm ready.

At some point, we just get entirely fed the ◊◊◊◊ up with constantly being called bigots and transphobes and nazis for simply wanting to exclude males from our sports, and from spaces where we're naked or vulnerable.

Then get fed up and take your ire out on them.

Why do you never seem to view *that* behavior as bigoted and vile?

I dont have voices in my head tormenting me. They. Are. Not. Here.

And why do you feel the need to punish those of us in this thread for the mean tweets of people who aren't us?

You hold up the Tweets. The original content is often presented with just as much bile, and you with one voice celebrate the tweetys. Why don't you denounce it, since you are so keen on chiding me for not denouncing people that aren't here?

 

[Thermal]

Really? I gave that idea up long ago.

No, they don't get drowned out. You repeatedly ignore them, deny them with ridiculous posturing, and pretend that all we do is harp on about cross-dressing perverts, that you don't think are a problem. Since that's your focus, rather than the "perfectly valid arguments" (that are somehow drowned out), here's that small sample of names again. I await your nitpicking about the meaning of 'regularly' in your quote, and further smirking at how I've proved you right with another attacking tweety drowning out the perfectly valid arguments (that somehow you always deny at the time they're posted).

The thing that never happens:​

There's been another four years since that was compiled. Click the title for details of these lovely ladies' mild transgressions.

Ok we're doing this one again? Rinsing and repeating:

You have a list of 239 offenders. Most are trans (not even all, as I clicked on them). Certainly virtually all have nothing to do with open gender policies. They are heinous crimes commited by people who were or later turned trans, but had nothing to do with trans accommodations being discussed.

So this list of 239 spans the globe and crosses a decade or two. In round numbers, there are 8 billion people in the world. Assuming half a percent are trans, and a quarter percent transwomen, that's about 20,000,000 transwomen worldwide in any given year.

The rates of violent criminal convictions (rape, murder, aggravated assault) are harder to estimate, but US figures I've seen indicate a rate of 0.4%-1% in any given year, so broad brush estimate that at a half percent. So we would expect the rate of violent criminals in the trans population, assuming it is consistent with the general population, to be about 100,000 convictions for violent crime annually, or about 274 per day. Your list of 239, spanning decades, doesn't get within orders of magnitude of representing violent crime convictions of the general population.

But that's not fair. Your list isn't intended to show anything, except to fool gullible saps into thinking them.trannys are disproportionately violent perverts. Yet you fail quite miserably at showing that, but the viewers of such a tweety are certainly too stupid to understand that.

But maybe I'm being unfair to you? Pray tell, what was this list supposed to demostrate?

 

[theprestige]

Some have tried exactly that.... it didnt work.

Why do you keep repeating this lie? You've been given counter examples several times.

 

[smartcooky]

Why do you keep repeating this lie? You've been given counter examples several times.

Did you mean to reply to me? Maybe you intended to reply to P0lka and clicked my reply button instead of his.

I have seen several examples of the label "Female" instead of "Women" being used in various places, including sports... it didn't stop transgender identifying men from denanding access.

 

[theprestige]

Not claiming that transpeople are either mentally ill, misogynistic, or perverts would be a fresh haircut.

Trans people either have gender dysphoria, a mental illness, or they don't. I'm sorry if that reasonable categorization of the issues gives off a bad vibe to some.

Trans Privilege Activism is objectively misogynistic. Therefore its advocates, trans or not, are misogynistic in their advocacy. This includes you. If you don't like my vibe, maybe stop giving off misogyny vibes.

And TPA demonstrably enables and protects a whole class of male sex pests. If you don't like me implying you support sex pests, maybe stop giving off a sex pest enabling vibe.

These are my reasoned and principled conclusions. The language I'm using is the correct language to use. I can't change my vibe, without changing my conclusions.

The best I can do is set the record straight, when you mischaracterize my views. Which, by the way, have you considered what vibe you give off when you do that?

I dont recall directing anything at you personally, but my memory isnt what it used to be.

Nobody is this confused.

See above. Dropping the nasty ◊◊◊◊ does wonders for your appearance.

See above. What nasty ◊◊◊◊ have I brought up in this post? How do you suggest I drop it, without betraying my beliefs?

Incidentally, the childish TPA tactic of "you hurt my feelings with your mean vibes, so I don't have to actually address any of your rational concerns" is giving off an entirely counter productive vibe, if what you want to produce is more humane and prosocial policy.

 

[theprestige]

Did you mean to reply to me? Maybe you intended to reply to P0lka and clicked my reply button instead of his.

I have seen several examples of the label "Female" instead of "Women" being used in various places, including sports... it didn't stop transgender identifying men from denanding access.

My bad. Yeah, that was for @p0lka

 

[theprestige]

I deny that ones with mysterious powers exist.

Why this dishonesty? There is nothing mysterious about the power of advocacy groups to influence policy.

 

[smartcooky]

Ok we're doing this one again? Rinsing and repeating:

You have a list of 239 offenders. Most are trans (not even all, as I clicked on them). Certainly virtually all have nothing to do with open gender policies. They are heinous crimes commited by people who were or later turned trans, but had nothing to do with trans accommodations being discussed.

So this list of 239 spans the globe and crosses a decade or two. In round numbers, there are 8 billion people in the world. Assuming half a percent are trans, and a quarter percent transwomen, that's about 20,000,000 transwomen worldwide in any given year.

The rates of violent criminal convictions (rape, murder, aggravated assault) are harder to estimate, but US figures I've seen indicate a rate of 0.4%-1% in any given year, so broad brush estimate that at a half percent. So we would expect the rate of violent criminals in the trans population, assuming it is consistent with the general population, to be about 100,000 convictions for violent crime annually, or about 274 per day. Your list of 239, spanning decades, doesn't get within orders of magnitude of representing violent crime convictions of the general population.

But that's not fair. Your list isn't intended to show anything, except to fool gullible saps into thinking them.trannys are disproportionately violent perverts. Yet you fail quite miserably at showing that, but the viewers of such a tweety are certainly too stupid to understand that.

But maybe I'm being unfair to you? Pray tell, what was this list supposed to demostrate?

Your handwaves are approaching "wall-o-text" proportions.

I'm sure the victims of these transgender identifying males will be comforted by the knowledge that they were some sort of statistical anomaly.

 

[Horhang]

Jury Finds Doctors Liable for Malpractice in Gender Surgery Lawsuit

Chloe Cole’s case against Kaiser in Ca is still going to trial.

 

[John Freestone]

But maybe I'm being unfair to you? Pray tell, what was this list supposed to demostrate?

Oh just another bit of your nonsense. This bit: "cross dressing perverts (who are never shown attacking in the way we are assured they regularly do)"

And of course it has everything to do with transgender policy, since such people are supported in accessing women and girls' spaces. Many of them suddenly discovered they were trans at the point of being sentenced, and some of their rapes and other abuses took place there (although one, housed in a male prison, raped and tortured his male cellmate and finally murdered him). But I don't expect you to consider your blatant lies and ignorant misinformation as anything to worry about or correct.

 

[John Freestone]

Nobody is this confused.

To be fair, by January 4th he didn't know what year it was.

 

[Thermal]

Trans people either have gender dysphoria, a mental illness, or they don't.

True. Also a weak ass punk out.

Your characterizing of only menally ill, misogynisyic, or perverts is cold blooded ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ mean. Don't try to hide behind a cheap fig leaf of "oh I just said they are either mentally ill or they are not". You are blanket claiming that they are sick or bad. That's ◊◊◊◊◊◊ up, dude.

Trans Privilege Activism is objectively misogynistic.

It is not. Thats a super weird way of looking at it.

Therefore its advocates, trans or not, are misogynistic in their advocacy. This includes you. If you don't like my vibe, maybe stop giving off misogyny vibes.

Again, words fail.me for how off the wall such a view is.

And TPA demonstrably enables and protects a whole class of male sex pests. If you don't like me implying you support sex pests, maybe stop giving off a sex pest enabling vibe.

Even weirder.

These are my reasoned and principled conclusions.

I'm buying you a dictionary for Valentines day.

Nobody is this confused.

I missed that empty canned canard.

See above. What nasty ◊◊◊◊ have I brought up in this post?

In this one, or the last one where I was quoting you? I couldn't see to this future back then. Although it's in the past now. ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ time, man.

How do you suggest I drop it, without betraying my beliefs?

Are your belief dependent on transpeople being either sick or bad? Is there no room in your philosophy for a transwoman who... check this out.. uses the men's room out of courtesy to others, and doesn't go in women's changing rooms and stuff? Under your definitions, what is that person: mentally ill, a bad person, or a perv? That's all you gave.

Incidentally, the childish TPA tactic of "you hurt my feelings with your mean vibes, so I don't have to actually address any of your rational concerns" is giving off an entirely counter productive vibe, if what you want to produce is more humane and prosocial policy.

'Not engaging' is not something I'm often accused of. 'Never shutting up' is. I believe you know that. I'm more than happy to go to town on any rational argument. Underline 'rational' on your own time.

 

[John Freestone]

Thanks i'll have a look.

Re the red: As I've posted here a gazillion times I've never understood how the T is included with the LGB? The LGB are going against what society pressurises people into, but the T want to conform to what society pressurises people into but want to switch roles to conform. How is the LBG and T even together? They're working at cross purposes.

Ah yes, another piece of the jigsaw. It's come up a few times here already. Charities like Stonewall did themselves out of a job when they acheived all their goals for gay folk, including same-sex marriage. There are a lot of jobs that risk going, and a lot of funding being pumped in that's going to dry up unless you find the next thing to campaign on. It seems likely (plausible at least) that those charites latched on to trans rights to keep the ball rolling. That's what I've read, but I can't say I've hard evidence to hand.

However, there's a lot of money that's been pumped into that campaign, and one document adds weight to the claim: the Denton's document. There's a lot of smoking guns in that document, but the relevant part is this:

7. Tie your campaign to more popular reform
In Ireland, Denmark and Norway, changes to the law on legal gender recognition were put through at the same time as other more popular reforms such as marriage equality legislation. This provided a veil of protection, particularly in Ireland, where marriage equality was strongly supported, but gender identity remained a more difficult issue to win public support for.

The document was written by a big law firm to advise trans advocacy groups on how best to get their policies in place. My italics above are the link to gay rights. And the rest spells out the deliberate tag-teaming of a culturally unpopular proposal with one that's supported more widely as progressive and harmless (as indeed gay rights are).

Worse is in there to discover, such as the general approach some call 'astroturfing', where campaigns disguise themselves as grass-roots, but are actually secretive top-down ones. You can read the document itself here, where it's been archived by gendercriticalwoman's blog, since Dentons have removed it from their site (also a smoking gun).

Most horrifying is that the overall goal of the document is transing kids, removing age restrictions, and it is blatantly entitled: "ONLY ADULTS? GOOD PRACTICES IN LEGAL GENDER RECOGNITION FOR YOUTH"

There's a good overview at the Spectator, and a punchy review at Roll on Friday, which begins,

Children should be allowed to change their legal gender without the involvement of medical professionals or parents, says Dentons, and the state should take "action" against parents who attempt to intervene.

and has a fun picture that might seem extreme, but actually is a reminder of how bad things might have got in our country if it wasn't for the wonderful TERFs of Terf Island. Teacher asks the kids: "What did everyone do at the weekend?" and a little girl says, "I told Mummy my immutable gender identity was non-binary and when she said no I reported her to the police."

Enjoy.

 

[d4m10n]

You say I wear their colors and use their lingo.

You obviously do use their lingo.

By any standard that would mean I hold their positions.

That doesn't follow at all.

For the third time, what TRA lingo/colors am I sporting?

For example, you've argued that it is acceptable to use the term "transwoman" but unacceptable to use "trans identified male" which refers to the same phenomenon but is used by gender critical feminists rather than trans rights advocates.

 

[smartcooky]

For example, you've argued that it is acceptable to use the term "transwoman" but unacceptable to use "trans identified male" which refers to the same phenomenon but is used by gender critical feminists rather than trans rights advocates.

QFT!