Trump's promised ICE raids have begun

The most civilian armed country in the world is proving to be a push over.

So far. I suspect all it’s going to take is a spark to start seeing armed militias going against ICE agents. The Black Panthers making their armed presence known is a step in that direction. And National Guard units may very well face armed encounters with ICE or other Federal troops.

To repeat, the recent movie “Civil War” shows a chilling possibility of how this could play out. It CAN happen here.
 
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X is full of videos of ICE being thugs. Why is that being accepted? Where is the fight back? The most civilian armed country in the world is proving to be a push over.

not that you want to see any kind of violence if possible, although it’s not something the federal government is currently and unfortunately shying away from, but this 2nd amendment deterrent hasn’t really materialized. we stacked up the bodies of a lot of dead kids for it too.
 
As an aside, Rachel Maddow had a recent podcast where she interviewed Timothy Snyder, author of “On Tyranny” and other books.

He said he was not so much concerned with the U.S. becoming a nation-wide authoritarian state, but thought a fragmenting nation was a more likely outcome. That states would eventually weigh the benefits/costs of remaining in a federal union, and choose to exit. He’s a smart guy, and that seems to be worth considering.
 
not that you want to see any kind of violence if possible, although it’s not something the federal government is currently and unfortunately shying away from, but this 2nd amendment deterrent hasn’t really materialized. we stacked up the bodies of a lot of dead kids for it too.
It is my impression that the circles on a Venn diagram of "Support Trump" and "Support 2nd Amendment" would overlap by a large amount.
 
Even earlier, the pardon of Richard Nixon signaled that a President could commit crimes with impunity and get away with it. I think if he had gone to prison, this would be a very different world today.
At least with Nixon, there were still enough uncorruped Republicans around to ensure that the regime's crimes caused its collapse.
 
It is my impression that the circles on a Venn diagram of "Support Trump" and "Support 2nd Amendment" would overlap by a large amount.
Yes, but it turns out a lot of 2nd Amendment support is based on the supporters wanting things to go their way, and the way they want things to go is authoritarian dictatorship--provided the dictator says the things they like to hear. They'll be delighted to use their guns to shoot the resistance.
 
So far. I suspect all it’s going to take is a spark to start seeing armed militias going against ICE agents. The Black Panthers making their armed presence known is a step in that direction. And National Guard units may very well face armed encounters with ICE or other Federal troops.

To repeat, the recent movie “Civil War” shows a chilling possibility of how this could play out. It CAN happen here.
 
In so many ways.

We're like the guy who got plastered at the party and got obnoxious and destructive, and are wondering how long it will take everyone to let us live this down.

I feel like the "living down" part is going to be painfully longer than we expect it to be, as well. Trump has absolutely destroyed some of our international relations.
 
I feel like the "living down" part is going to be painfully longer than we expect it to be, as well. Trump has absolutely destroyed some of our international relations.

many of them haven’t even really begun to actually divest from the us besides laying some groundwork. china and russia, venezuela, iran, nk and a few others have years ago. why haven’t the tariffs had them quaking in their boots but europe and canada and mexico all scrambled? it takes a few years to set up new trade deals and supply lines, but they are doing it now.

they won’t be in a rush to undo it either, and even if they do it’ll be a few years for them to work that all out

imo it’s going to be years of stagflation, the consequences of all this will play out over decades, not weeks or months. it’s hasn’t even begun, when the clowns notice the empty shelves and price tags it’ll be way too late.
 
I feel like the "living down" part is going to be painfully longer than we expect it to be, as well. Trump has absolutely destroyed some of our international relations.
When I got to college and studied grown-up political science, we were taught that the rest of the world admired the United States for its reliability and stability. You could always count on the United States to predictably do more or less the right thing. You could count on economic and monetary policy to be sane, even with fluctuations in liberal and conservative government. You could count on foreign policy that was principled and restrained without compromising its gravitas. Others could make long-term arrangements involving U.S. interests because the parameters were unlikely to change materially from administration to administration.

Baked into that assessment was the proposition that American electors would consistently elect people who would uphold those ideals. It's not enough to hope that a future administration can reverse all the damage done by the present gang of self-serving chaos agents led by an obviously unhinged narcissist. What the world fears now is that if the United States can elect such a bunch of deplorables once, they can do it again—and just might. The American people are on trial now. It's not going to be enough to be able to say there was strong opposition to the Trump regime. If it doesn't rise to the level of being able to restore faith in the American electorate, then the U.S. will have permanently lost its role as a world leader.
 
I fear that's pretty much on the money. Even if and when the madness ends you can't go back to the status quo at the flick of a switch because the old certainties are over there in that burning dumpster.

At the risk of making the too-obvious hyperbolic comparison, it took a really obvious catastrophe and rather a lot of time for Germany to recover its reputation from its lowest ebb. It wasn't just voting in a different party. It was a dead stop and start again.

And it also took a substantial externally-imposed program of denazification. I'm reminded of something Bill Bryson wrote, about travelling as a student and getting the uncomfortable experience of recognising a difference between Germany which had been through denazification and Austria which had not. There is pretty clearly no such process which will happen in the US unless this proceeds on a course to absolute catastrophe.
 
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speaking of on the money, american t bills and to a lesser extent the world reserve currency are also at risk for the same reason nobody wants the currency and t bills of other rogue states. this is the divestment they’re working on now, less reliance on us tools for finance. which is a big problem if you want to run a $2t deficit. which even under good circumstances is a problem. wait until the have an actual problem and need money.
 
When I got to college and studied grown-up political science, we were taught that the rest of the world admired the United States for its reliability and stability. You could always count on the United States to predictably do more or less the right thing. You could count on economic and monetary policy to be sane, even with fluctuations in liberal and conservative government. You could count on foreign policy that was principled and restrained without compromising its gravitas. Others could make long-term arrangements involving U.S. interests because the parameters were unlikely to change materially from administration to administration.

Baked into that assessment was the proposition that American electors would consistently elect people who would uphold those ideals. It's not enough to hope that a future administration can reverse all the damage done by the present gang of self-serving chaos agents led by an obviously unhinged narcissist. What the world fears now is that if the United States can elect such a bunch of deplorables once, they can do it again—and just might. The American people are on trial now. It's not going to be enough to be able to say there was strong opposition to the Trump regime. If it doesn't rise to the level of being able to restore faith in the American electorate, then the U.S. will have permanently lost its role as a world leader.
The fish has been souped.
 

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