You Will Own Nothing And Be Happy

[Brainster]

There are things that I actually like not having to own but having access to, like music. In the 1970s, I'd get a paycheck and immediately go out and buy a couple of albums. As a result I have a huge collection of vinyl that gathers dust in a bookcase, because I went to MP3 in the 1990s. Tons of downloading, burning to CD, copying back to external hard drives, etc., later, the MP3s are also largely forgotten thanks to YouTube Music. I used to have thousands of books piled everywhere; they went to Goodwill or used bookstores a decade plus ago. Movies and TV shows pretty much the same--used to have lots of VHS tapes, skipped over the DVD phase straight to downloading, but even then you eventually have storage issues and 95% of what I watch I don't really want to watch twice. Computer games are sort of in the same category, but even more so because a lot of old games don't work with newer versions of Windows, but Steam and Gog tweak them so they do.

 

[novaphile]

Hmm...

I live rent free, and debt free, in the home that I own and paid for twice (don't ask).

I'm surrounded by approximately:

1,000 books;
150 CDs;
100 DVDs and BlueRays;
30 vinyl records;
60 packs of cards;
3 hifis (lounge, dining room and workshop, only have a radio in the boat shed);
An assortment of musical instruments (recorders, shakuhachi, drums, guitar);
A nicely equipped workshop full of hand tools;
a car; and,
a kayak.

I think my way of living is nicer, thanks all the same.

By the way, I was 40 before I'd saved up enough to put a deposit on this house.

And that was after I'd worked and paid my way through university to get two degrees.
(Nothing has ever been free for this 'Baby Boomer').

Not bad for a guy that was pulled out of high school before I'd achieved a certificate, so that I "could bring some bloody money in".

(NB. That didn't work out so well, because I left home shortly after that was done to me.)

 

[Dabop]

Hmm...

I live rent free, and debt free, in the home that I own and paid for twice (don't ask).

I'm surrounded by approximately:

1,000 books;
150 CDs;
100 DVDs and BlueRays;
30 vinyl records;
60 packs of cards;
3 hifis (lounge, dining room and workshop, only have a radio in the boat shed);
An assortment of musical instruments (recorders, shakuhachi, drums, guitar);
A nicely equipped workshop full of hand tools;
a car; and,
a kayak.

I think my way of living is nicer, thanks all the same.

By the way, I was 40 before I'd saved up enough to put a deposit on this house.

And that was after I'd worked and paid my way through university to get two degrees.
(Nothing has ever been free for this 'Baby Boomer').

Not bad for a guy that was pulled out of high school before I'd achieved a certificate, so that I "could bring some bloody money in".

(NB. That didn't work out so well, because I left home shortly after that was done to me.)

I at least got to Y12 before starting my apprenticeship, but similar in that I didn't manage to get the deposit to my place until I was 35- bought my first place (which I would have been happy to stay in for the rest of my life) but I have 'noisy' hobbies and that place was 'built up around' until it was in the middle of suburbia...
Hence I managed to get a reasonable price for it and moved to my current location- out in the middle of nowhere with a 30 acre block of bushland (and here you are limited in how much you can actually clear- my block is no more than 5 acres maximum so I seriously doubt I will ever have to worry about 'close neighbours' again...)

Paid cash for this place and built a massive shed (11mx21m!!! - currently housing the caravan Ive been living in since 2008 lol- THATS why I don't want 'close neighbours' ever again lol) and have about half finished with a nice steel frame 'kit home'- do a bit every day or two until it is finished....

This is my new 'forever home'- and its imho heaven on earth- I got roos that come and visit every day for a drink (and a feed from the dogs dry food bowl if its still out lol), koalas and kackleburras

I'm of the older generation that 'patched and patched until it literally fell apart' attitude- I do almost everything myself up to and including pulling engines out and doing a rebuild- if i don't know how, I research until I do know, at least have a bloody good go at it...

Everything I own is bought 'cash on delivery' (ok I do use ecommerce, but its all from MY money- if I don't have enough I save up!!!!- no credit is used nor wanted)- and I am VERY suspicious of 'cloud ownership'- if its not in my shed, its not mine and can be easily taken away (RIGHT Amazon?????) and like I said- once trust is gone, it never comes back- I refuse to buy anything from them ever again...
They may have saved a few bucks- but lost my trust forever....

 

[Orphia Nay]

I don't owe anyone any money.

Not sure where I saw it, but I recently saw a video of a guy interviewing people at Disneyland, and asking them how much debt they have. It was shocking, not only because most of them had put the trip to Disneyland on credit. I don't know how they sleep at night.

Or maybe I do. Cognitive dissonance.

 

[lionking]

For me in Australia the main thing that has changed is that when I started work one decent income was required to get a housing loan. Which was a good thing because in a lot of industries women often had to leave work when they married and were required to when they had a baby ( I’m talking the 1970s). We built our house in the early 1970s and my income covered the loan and other expenses. My wife became the full-time carer of seven kids.

Now, of course, two incomes are required and 6 of our children have managed to obtain houses. Our youngest daughter is happy renting a share home in a trendy inner suburb.

As I have explained in other threads our children will have comfortable retirements because of compulsory employer funded superannuation. My wife and I paid off our home loan before retirement and are quite comfortable. People in a situation where they still have a mortgage when retiring could be in trouble.

Anyway, no debts, a big, comfortable house we love, a good car and income which can cover regular travel.

 

[Trebuchet]

I don't owe anyone any money.

I, or rather we, do. More than $300,000. We took out a loan at age 70+ to build our house.
Because the interest rate is low, interest is tax deductible, and our investments do better than that.
And my mandatory IRA withdrawals cover the payments.
It's much harder for younger people I'm afraid.

 

[Orphia Nay]

I actually thought this thread was going to be about the conspiracy theory I've seen from around 2020 where people thought the UN or WCB or NWO were going to somehow make everyone not own anything.

 

[lionking]

I actually thought this thread was going to be about the conspiracy theory I've seen from around 2020 where people thought the UN or WCB or NWO were going to somehow make everyone not own anything.

It might well turn out to be…..

 

[Pixel42]

I even have a Amazon kindle library- although since they stopped allowing downloads, I simply refuse to give them any more money- if I am buying a ebook, I want a local copy- none of this cloud BS

Mystified by this - I buy loads of books from Amazon, and download every single one onto my Kindle. The only time I even switch its wifi on is to do the downloads.

 

[Dabop]

Mystified by this - I buy loads of books from Amazon, and download every single one onto my Kindle. The only time I even switch its wifi on is to do the downloads.

I have a extremely old kindle (still works fine mind you)- it was barred from D/L directly about two years ago, but I could still d/l from the web through the computer and USB cable the files into it- that functionality disappeared about a year ago rendering the kindle completely useless- worse at the same time, quite a few of my paid books (some quite expensive) ALSO disappeared from the online cloud library, Amazon admitted it was 'they were too old' and I needed to 'rebuy them' to return them to my library- ◊◊◊◊ NO!!!!!!! I had already paid for them....
Luckily I had already downloaded them so they were safe in my NAS here, but I can now only access them when at home- and Amazon lost my trust completely....

I now totally refuse to use any of their services- end of story...
Never again will they get a single cent from me....

 

[theprestige]

I mean... It's probably better for you if your happiness doesn't depend on owning things.

 

[sinnikal]

I mean... It's probably better for you if your happiness doesn't depend on owning things.

My happiness doesn't depend on owning things, it stems from not owing anybody anything. I own far less than I did 30 years ago. It also comes from laying in bed and having an unimpeded view of the beach and the sea which is subtly different every day. It's what I'm doing right now.

 

[Ivor the Engineer]

Homes have become investments and many older people will be end up having to sell their homes to pay for their end of life care. Young people can't get mortgages on reasonable terms and are competing with corporations who want to rent the property out.

The latest wheeze in healthcare is weight loss drugs, which result in people paying endless rent for improved health in the sick food environment created by poor regulation.

Many people have been forced to buy a new computer to run Windows 11, which makes it very difficult to disentangle yourself from Microsoft's cloud services. Many other software products are cloud-only and/or subscription based.

The default for having a car is endless monthly finance.

Access to music, TV and films now also requires a constant drip drip drip from your bank account to huge corporations.

Can the above be avoided? In most cases yes, with effort. In others it's difficult or mostly luck. But in aggregate the middle class are going to have a substantial chunk of their wealth removed and private debt is going to grow.

 

[8enotto]

As I grow older I tend to own less things. If it goes unused in my care it gets moved on to someone that will.
Or future stocks for my son to maintain his home when I am gone.

My books and CDs are gone. My piles of random stuff I used to need are dwindling to managed quantity of the best.

Part of my latest efforts has been saving and rebuilding broken stuff from others to save the cash for techy stuff that has to be up to date. It's a hobby my grandfather took on too long ago. He didn't need most of what he fixed either. He sold it cheap.

I can't keep old devices online like years ago. They keep taking them offline by making memory and UI versions obsolete. Bastards.

 

[Dabop]

Homes have become investments and many older people will be end up having to sell their homes to pay for their end of life care. Young people can't get mortgages on reasonable terms and are competing with corporations who want to rent the property out.

Sadly the case if you want to stay in the cities, and even suburbia these days

The latest wheeze in healthcare is weight loss drugs, which result in people paying endless rent for improved health in the sick food environment created by poor regulation.

In the USA....Only in the USA...

Many people have been forced to buy a new computer to run Windows 11, which makes it very difficult to disentangle yourself from Microsoft's cloud services. Many other software products are cloud-only and/or subscription based.

PMSL The last new computer I used that ran windows ran XP, I have never owned a win7,8 10 or 11 one- and have no issues at all (still running 'Bionic Beaver aka Ubuntu 18) and not one program I use is subscription OR cloud based...

The default for having a car is endless monthly finance.

Again PMSL- the last car I had finance on was back in the early 1990's- and that was my ex's.... I pay cash and if you stop the 'gotta have the latest and greatest' nonsense, a second hand car is often found quite cheap these days (the last one I bought cost me $400Au for a 96 Corolla, took a couple of weeks doing the repairs it needed myself and passed its rego inspection with flying colours... really needs a new clearcoat, but meh- you usually cant see it under the dust from the dirt road I live on....

Access to music, TV and films now also requires a constant drip drip drip from your bank account to huge corporations.

Again, I havent spent a cent for ebooks, music, TV or films for years now- free LEGAL options are available....

Can the above be avoided? In most cases yes, with effort. In others it's difficult or mostly luck. But in aggregate the middle class are going to have a substantial chunk of their wealth removed and private debt is going to grow.

The 'effort' is so small, its more annoying driving into town to buy a new win11 laptop...
If people cant be bothered then thats entirely on them....
(a fool and his money etc etc)

 

[mumblethrax]

I don't own anything of any real value, apart from some investment and retirement accounts, and it's fine. At least in this city, renting seems like the better option to me. If I were to buy a place, it would probably be a co-op or condo, and that comes with a maintenance fee, property taxes, and headaches. I don't much see the appeal. Haven't owned a car in decades. Public transit is the cheaper and less burdensome option, and I have a car-sharing membership if I ever need a car for some reason (once or twice a year, typically).

I do own this kettle, though.


We're probably talking about two different phenomena here--one is high cost of living driven by housing scarcity, and the other is ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊.

 

[Dabop]

I don't own anything of any real value, apart from some investment and retirement accounts, and it's fine. At least in this city, renting seems like the better option to me. If I were to buy a place, it would probably be a co-op or condo, and that comes with a maintenance fee, property taxes, and headaches. I don't much see the appeal. Haven't owned a car in decades. Public transit is the cheaper and less burdensome option, and I have a car-sharing membership if I ever need a car for some reason (once or twice a year, typically).

I do own this kettle, though.


We're probably talking about two different phenomena here--one is high cost of living driven by housing scarcity, and the other is ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊.

That works- while you are working- but what happens when you retire???
Renting is a debt trap and it only ever gets more expensive- just as your income goes down....

Thats why I sold up and moved rural when I was approaching retirement age- my land rates here are only $1200 a year, my old place (suburbia) was over $3000 a year...
So effectively my 'rent' costs here per year are $23 a week lol
(plus as I own the land, I have the space and money (and knowledge) to set up a pretty good offgrid system- so I have zero electricity costs, water is from the shed roof into the tanks (no water rates) and the new car purchase (probably the last car ever intend to buy) is an EV- charged from my rooftop solar array, so car running costs are minimised... (basically rego and tyres will be the major running costs, 'fuel' will be free from the sun lol)

 

[mumblethrax]

That works- while you are working- but what happens when you retire???

Then I live off of the aforementioned retirement accounts. Probably somewhere cheaper.

Renting is a debt trap and it only ever gets more expensive- just as your income goes down....

I don't see how it's a debt trap, unless I'm living beyond my means. I'm not building equity in my apartment, but I'm building equity elsewhere. It's just a matter of opportunity costs. Mortgage payments would be substantially more than rent here--half a million might get you a decent one bedroom apartment in a semi-desirable neighborhood in an outer borough. It's not, in my judgment, worth it. And I like the fact that there's a lot, as a renter, that just isn't my problem.

 

[Dabop]

Then I live off of the aforementioned retirement accounts. Probably somewhere cheaper.


I don't see how it's a debt trap, unless I'm living beyond my means. I'm not building equity in my apartment, but I'm building equity elsewhere. It's just a matter of opportunity costs. Mortgage payments would be substantially more than rent here--half a million might get you a decent one bedroom apartment in a semi-desirable neighborhood in an outer borough. It's not, in my judgment, worth it. And I like the fact that there's a lot, as a renter, that just isn't my problem.

Rentals are considerably more than mortgage payments here, with a 3 bedroom 'cookie cutter' detached house being $700 a week on the Gold coast to rent (plus you have to pay for water and electricity on top) with apartments even more....
Even locally, a 3 bedroom house on a half acre block in town you are looking at $400-$500 a week rent (again, you have to pay for water and electricity usage here) where you can buy a place for $250k in town, with repayments being under 300 a week...

Additionally, a rental rarely has solar here, where almost all home owners put a 6.6kw to 10kw gridtie system on the roof here, which will usually cut your electricity bill down (without solar, and being 'frugal' with power, you might be paying around $1000-$1500 a quarter, while that could be slashed to $300 or less with a gridtie solar, or practically zero if you fit a hybrid system- a basic gridtie system is around $4000 fully installed, starting at double that for a hybrid battery/gridtie system fully installed (depending on battery size $8k-$12k is the usual range for a typical households usage)- in three years or less its paid itself off and you are saving money- while a renter is still shelling out full price until they move out LOL

 

[Frank Newgent]

Then I live off of the aforementioned retirement accounts. Probably somewhere cheaper.

Works for me!