Trump's Second Term
- Thread starter Orphia Nay
- Start date
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
So the armrests were off-cuts?
P.J. Denyer
Penultimate Amazing
Maybe he's storing them in the Lincoln Bathroom, he wants to keep them safe after all.
shemp
a flimsy character...perfidious and despised
It's a dump.
Mojo
Mostly harmless
Hang on, on Monday wasn't he saying that falling house prices are a bad thing, because "homeowners will lose their wealth"?
bruto
Penultimate Amazing
That may be but what I am addressing is the presumption that one cannot criticize Trump for what he is actually doing if we cannot guarantee that we might have criticized someone else for some unspecified equivalent that might have happened.
Aridas
Crazy Little Green Dragon
There's something to be said when it comes to taking one's body of work into account to inform expectations. If it were a Democratic Party president with a similar record as Trump does? Criticism like what you're seeing would still be happening, fairly certainly. As a general rule, though, Democratic Party presidents and those they put into power have a much, much better record when it comes to honesty and discernment overall and their detractors tend to be far, far more unreasonable, which is why there's more benefit of the doubt afforded to them as a result. Trump's track record is horrendous, so little benefit of the doubt is afforded to him. It's as simple as that.
It sure seems to be true most of the time, hence making it safer to assume that it's likely bad without evidence to the contrary.
Dr.Sid
Philosopher
That's not the skeptic's way ..
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
Indeed. My body of work when it comes to The Fat Orange Turd is clear and unequivocal
Overall across all issues? Certainly! But on an issue by issue basis, this is not the case.
For example, the issue under discussion at the moment is the military airstrikes in Nigeria;
The Issue: The Fat Orange Turd orders air strikes in Nigeria against Islamic State and Boko Haram terrorists, WITH the cooperation and permission of the Nigerian government.
The Left Here: Pearl clutching, couch fainting, hand-wringing and moral poutrage. How dare The Fat Orange Turd do this?
The Issue: President Obama orders a strike in Pakistan to capture or kill the leader of Al Qaeda, WITHOUT the permission or the cooperation of the Pakistani government.
The Left Here: Crickets!
The fact that one was a missile strike and the other was a "troops on the ground" operation is completely irrelevant. They were BOTH military operations inside the territory of a sovereign country with no declaration of war having been made.
Its also worth noting: President Obama authorized about 563 strikes (mostly drone strikes) in Pakistan, Somalia, and Yemen during his presidency, killing thousands of militants and hundreds of civilians.
The Left: More crickets
True
True
If only.
Well you one what happens when you assume?
TragicMonkey
Poisoned Waffles
I think there's a key difference you're overlooking here: Pakistan-based Al Qaeda attacked the US. Has Boko Haram/Nigerian IS attacked the US?
Regnad Kcin
Penultimate Amazing
Yes, the lifelong criminal con man, adjudicated rapist, insurrectionist, thief, grifter, felon, and undefeated heavyweight champeen liar should absolutely be given the benefit of the doubt! You are right, sir!
ETA: Ninja’d by the entire forum.
.
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Aridas
Crazy Little Green Dragon
Based on? It is entirely reasonable to consider things within the context of a body of work and make preliminary assumptions that can easily be overturned or altered as reasonable and more direct evidence becomes available.
Not really the impression that I took away from the posts, myself. Rather, Trump and his Administration's record of engaging in indiscriminate harm over and over and brazenly lying about all kinds of things over and over leads to entirely understandable doubts. When it comes to Nigeria, specifically, the previous statements made have been quite problematic, as well.
IF the air strikes were actually truly against IS and Boko Haram based on solid intel and IF the Nigerian government was actually supportive of the action, rather than coerced to pretend to support it, it could be a good thing. Trump and his Administration have made both of those considerations thoroughly doubtful, though. That propensity to just sling about accusations of some variety of "those people are very, very bad people, so just trust us as we ignore laws and principles to hurt them" at anyone they feel like with no regard for truth works against trust there particularly strongly.
As another side note, the timing fairly certainly plays into the criticism. It's really not wrong to consider Trump's words and actions as profaning the Christmas spirit, after all.
And? Are you really trying to pretend that Obama's record and statements were anywhere close to as objectionable as Trump's?
Sure.
Sure. First, though, note there the part where the militants dramatically outnumbered the civilians. Second, note that "the Left" did criticize Obama and his Administration over that. Third, Trump, well...
US dramatically escalates air strikes on Somalia under Trump this year
Trump’s strike total on conflict-ridden East African nation exceeds Bush, Obama and Biden administrations combined.
That speaks for itself. Generally speaking, having a very selfish mentally ill guy who has made it clear that he wants Canada, Greenland, and more to submit and join the US and who put a guy who declared that war crimes are to be standard practice now in charge of military operations is naturally cause for much greater concern overall than is caused by an intelligent person who demonstrated that he actually cares about morals and the good of the country.
I have yet to see reasonable argument to the contrary.
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arthwollipot
Observer of Phenomena, Pronouns: he/him
No you're not.
Norman Alexander
Penultimate Amazing
FYI, I expect none of us carry any water for African Muslim terrorists and kidnappers, etc. They can join Trump in that same special hell.
The problem is that there is zero evidence these US strikes on Nigeria achieved anything like what they used as justification for them. So what DID they hit?
If anyone, US Democratic presidents included, ordered strikes like this, I would be equally condemnatory.
Norman Alexander
Penultimate Amazing
What that means is Lennar Homes (of Miami) has had to cut the price of their product in order to sell anything. Which means they aren't making profits.
And from their website:
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
A difference that is completely irrelevant.
Do you think thieves, burglars and shoplifters should be allowed to get away with their crimes because they didn't steal from you?
Do you think hit and run drivers should be allowed to get away with their crimes because they didn't run you down?
Do you think murderers should be allowed to get away with their crimes because they didn't kill a member of your family?
Terrorism is terrorism, no matter to is doing it. Every terrorist organizations needs to be in constant fear of attack - let them feel what its like for their victims.
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Norman Alexander
Penultimate Amazing
Indeed. So again... What proof is there that the US Christmas attacks on Nigeria hit terrorists of any sort? Beyond Trump claiming that is the case.
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
Where were you with your condemnation when Obama ordered his over 560 drone strikes in Pakistan, Somalia, and Yemen, killing thousands of militants and hundreds of civilians.
STFU. You know NOTHING about me.
I am politically a centrist - I always have been, and I always will be. There is no way I will ever shackle myself to an extremist political tribe the way you have.