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Roman Dodecahedron

alfaniner said:
I would favor it being some sort of tool. It's the different-sized holes that make me think it's more than decorative.
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none of them show any wear you would associate with a tool and why would they need to be so complex?

Why wouldn't we see simpler versions with fewer size options and why are the ones found of different sizes anyway?
 
(Mentioned before, and actually, my first thought) A spaghetti (or some other stalky food) portion measurer. The knobs are to raise it off the table to make the stalks stand up straight. Yes, probably too elaborate for something that was likely eyeballed anyway, but I'm sticking with that until something better comes along!
 
Andy_Ross said:
Did the Celts eat a lot of Spaghetti?

Did they need so many portion sizes?
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My earlier spaghetti post was an anachronism joke. There's no evidence of any spaghetti-like pasta (especially dried pasta, and good luck measuring fresh-made or cooked spaghetti in a dodecahedron) in Europe until about 1200 CE. Some other bundled foodstuff, perhaps, but what? Too small for asparagus.

Could be a variable-strength fasces mold.
 
Seriously?

Now that it has been demonstrated that the tool can be used for knitting tube shaped things, what is left to explain?

The same device can be used to knit glove fingers, ropes, strings, wire jewellery and even small threads.

Problem solved.
 
P.J. Denyer said:
It's a challenging shape to filament print in one piece, not much to adhear to the baseplate and internal supports would be a nightmare to remove. I'm sure it's doable, I might have a shot, but I'd wait until you're comfortable with the printer before trying it. It might resin print easier TBH.
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OK!! Good advice!
 
Andy_Ross said:
none of them show any wear you would associate with a tool and why would they need to be so complex?

Why wouldn't we see simpler versions with fewer size options and why are the ones found of different sizes anyway?
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A single example of a Roman icosahedron (a solid with 20 sides) has also been discovered.
 
novaphile said:
Seriously?

Now that it has been demonstrated that the tool can be used for knitting tube shaped things, what is left to explain?

The same device can be used to knit glove fingers, ropes, strings, wire jewellery and even small threads.

Problem solved.
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ha ha
 
Ron Swanson said:
OK!! Good advice!
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I've downloaded a single piece model, and one which is hinged panels with screw in 'feet'. I got distracted so I didn't get round to slicing and printing it, bug if I get a chance before I go away for Xmas... The panel one looks an easy print and under klipper that kind of thing prints decently quick. I might put the single piece through the resin printer, but I need to clear a path through the room, we dumped everything in there when the downstairs ceiling was being replaced.
 
novaphile said:
Seriously?

Now that it has been demonstrated that the tool can be used for knitting tube shaped things, what is left to explain?

The same device can be used to knit glove fingers, ropes, strings, wire jewellery and even small threads.

Problem solved.
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Except, as I said, they predate the earliest written records of spool knitting by 1300 years.
 
arthwollipot said:
Except, as I said, they predate the earliest written records of spool knitting by 1300 years.
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I think it's seductive to assume that because something can be used for a job, it was intended for it, the pliers on my Swiss Army Knife were perfect for removing the pressurised petrol filter on my Vauxhall Tigra (a job Vauxhall sold a specific tool for) but obviously that wasn't their intended purpose.
 
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P.J. Denyer said:
I think it's seductive to assume that because something can be used for a job, it was intended for it, the pliers on my Swiss Army Knife were perfect for removing the pressurised petrol filter on my Vauxhall Tigra (a job Vauxhall sold a specific tool for) but obviously that wasn't their primary purpose.
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It's possible that they were used for spool knitting, 1300 years before anything was written down about it (a legal decision in Strasbourg on the guild membership for sock knitters, if you're interested), but since the Romans wrote everything else down, including their recipe for concrete, which was recently discovered in Pompeii, it seems unlikely.
 
But the Celts didn't write much down which is why their use is a mystery
 
arthwollipot said:
It's possible that they were used for spool knitting, 1300 years before anything was written down about it (a legal decision in Strasbourg on the guild membership for sock knitters, if you're interested), but since the Romans wrote everything else down, including their recipe for concrete, which was recently discovered in Pompeii, it seems unlikely.
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Yes, I completely agree that it's possible, but assuming it's the answer because it works is a variation on the Post Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc fallacy, particularly as the specimens we have don't show the extected wear patterns.* I'm interested to hear their concrete recipe has been found, since if I understand correctly there are aspects of Roman concrete better than our modern varieties (although in some respects the opposite is true) as well as the historical interest there might be practical as well as historical lessons to learn.

*As I understand it, if I'm wrong I will retract.
 
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P.J. Denyer said:
I'm interested to hear their concrete recipe has been found, since if I understand correctly there are aspects of Roman concrete better than our modern varieties (although in some respects the opposite is true) as well as the historical interest there might be practical as well as historical lessons to learn.
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The linked article explains. It would be off-topic here.
 
P.J. Denyer said:
Yes, I completely agree that it's possible, but assuming it's the answer because it works is a variation on the Post Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc fallacy, particularly as the specimens we have don't show the extected wear patterns.* I'm interested to hear their concrete recipe has been found, since if I understand correctly there are aspects of Roman concrete better than our modern varieties (although in some respects the opposite is true) as well as the historical interest there might be practical as well as historical lessons to learn.

*As I understand it, if I'm wrong I will retract.
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The other thing that occurs to me is that if the purpose is knitting, it's over complicated. A small board with a hole in it means you don't have to reach in with a hook from the other side of a 3 dimensional form (possibly through a much smaller hole), and a thin wooden board with a hole bored in it and some wooden pegs or a wicker ring with exposed spars would be so much easier, cheaper and more accessible to ordinary people. And if one of the 'pegs' breaks off, the ajoining faces are compromised if not spoiled, a wooden one, five minutes with a whittling knife and it's replaced.
 
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