Transwomen are not Women - Part 15

[Emily's Cat]

eta: just having some fun- lately when any sales associate calls me 'sir' (which I hate, not being Knighted), I respond with 'Don't misgender me, bigot'. It gets a nervous laugh, as I'm not smiling when I say it.

I think this might be one of those things where it's fun for you, but not at all fun for the people you're doing it to. You're having fun at their expense, intentionally making them uncomfortable, and likely making them feel threatened and intimidated.

 

[theprestige]

But to your point: the feels is reals. Totally get that. And that's precisely where the skepticism should kick in. Are the feels right, or is the reality right? And what is the reality?

Nobody is this confused.

Paranoid schizophrenia? Nobody is this confused about feels versus reality.

Factive disorder? Nobody is this confused about feels versus reality.

Manic-depression? Nobody is this confused about feels versus reality.

Pedophilia? Nobody is this confused about feels versus reality. And nobody is this confused about what line public policy should take with the condition.

Nobody pretends to this level of confusion about mental states, besides trans privilege activists. TPAs are the sovcits of the mental health world.

 

[TomB]

They all know one or two trans-identifying men who are the soul of discretion and consideration (and "vulnerable" as well), and have never encountered any of the entitled narcissists stomping all over women's rights. So that's OK then.

Without reading the article in question and only considering the content of your post....
Many of us (most?) haven't encountered a population of trans people. Rather, they are personally acquainted with just one or two.

For myself I'm currently acquainted with two.

One of them is actually non-binary, I believe. And I've never had conversations with them about their gender. (How exactly (and why?) does that conversation happen with a coworker?)

The other, I know from the gaming store/group I play with. Never really talked to that person about it either.

Neither of these people present as militant activists and they don't seem to be attention seekers. Neither are they shrinking violets. Just kind of normal, really. Not aggressive. Not submissive. Just...normal.
Of course, I've also never seen them in an environment where anyone was making a big deal about it one way or the other.

My point is that the trans people many of us actually encounter do not fit the TRA stereotypes used to make points on this discussion. Now, I know that the people you cite exist. But it's very hard for me to determine whether those are typical or a vocal minority when the people I actually encounter in the "real" world do not seem to fit the mold.

In other words, I have met neither the trans person who is the "soul of discretion and consideration (and "vulnerable" as well)" nor the trans person who was one of the "entitled narcissists stomping all over women's rights." Why should I accept either stereotype as typical?

(For the record, I have no idea what bathroom either of these people use. The game store only has one single occupancy, and I don't keep track of people's bathroom habits at work. Cuz that would be weird.)

 

[Thermal]

Why would you expect to find reports of it? It's entirely legal for any male to walk right into the female shower if they claim to be a "girl", it's school policy. If a female is surprised by this, what do you think would happen? They complain to the school... and what? The school tells the local news agency about it and puts some kids names out there in public?

I'd expect the appallingly obvious: social media ablaze with furious fathers, boyfriends, brothers, mothers, grandparents, second cousins twice removed, formally organizing the burning of the ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ school to the ground and dismembering the corpse of the offender. Why do you ask?

 

[Thermal]

Nobody is this confused.

Paranoid schizophrenia? Nobody is this confused about feels versus reality.

Factive disorder? Nobody is this confused about feels versus reality.

Manic-depression? Nobody is this confused about feels versus reality.

Pedophilia? Nobody is this confused about feels versus reality. And nobody is this confused about what line public policy should take with the condition.

Nobody pretends to this level of confusion about mental states, besides trans privilege activists. TPAs are the sovcits of the mental health world.

We're back to 'Nobody is this confused'? That's sooooo a couple months ago.

 

[Thermal]

I think this might be one of those things where it's fun for you, but not at all fun for the people you're doing it to. You're having fun at their expense, intentionally making them uncomfortable, and likely making them feel threatened and intimidated.

Yeah like this would be the first time.

 

[theprestige]

We're back to 'Nobody is this confused'? That's sooooo a couple months ago.

Perennials gonna perennial. Evergreens gonna evergreen.

 

[Thermal]

I hold open the door for other people, regardless of their sex, because it's polite.

I'm sure you do. Virtually all women walk through the door, expecting me to hold it open while they pass through. Virtually all men hurry to relieve me from holding it for them.

◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊. You refrain from whipping out your wedding tackle based on the SEX of the people around you.

I have been assured those terms are inarguably synonymous.

I doubt you hesitate to use a communal urinal when the people around you are males, regardless of whether one of them is wearing a sparkly pink tiara.

You can bet your sweet bippy I'd be a-hesitating.

On the other hand, I bet you would refrain from exposing your shlong in the presence of a female, even if such a female was wearing a flannel shirt and overalls with heavy-duty workboots and a buzz cut.

Depends. She available?

 

[Rolfe]

I dont think it can. There are too many smart lawyers out there.

The parts of this ruling where the judge has dismissed claims against Upton will be appealed.

The parts where the judge pulled non-existent quotes, ostensibly from other judgments, but which were in fact right out of his own arse, and those quotes he selected out of context which he used to distort the meaning of the original judgement, will also be appealed.

It wouldn't surprise me if FWS and lawyers for Maya Forstater filed third party intervenions in any appeal.

Note: For American readers, a third party intervenion is the UK equivalent of an Amicus Brief in the US

https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/politics/5392926/nhs-fife-trans-judgment-bogus-quote/

I think it was a big mistake to rush out that "correction" just a few hours after the error was pointed out online. The smart move would have been to stay quiet, have a damn good look at the whole thing in case there were other issues, and (most importantly) let the citizen proofreading team do its thing thoroughly. That way a considered decision could have been taken as to whether or not to try to fix the mess in a single re-issue.

This just makes them look ridiculous, rushing out a single correction then refusing to do anything about other equally serious issues that were only a few hours behind in hitting Twitter.

 

[Rolfe]

Pressure may be building though. We'll see.

Sandie Peggie judge urged to withdraw ruling ‘riddled with errors’

Legal experts cast doubt on the trans case judgment involving the NHS Fife nurse which dismissed all the claims against Dr Beth Upton

www.thetimes.com

ETA: Criticism is pretty widespread, from high up the pecking order.



The point about the American spellings is interesting, because one lawyer on Twitter has looked up other judgments produced by the same judge and he does not use that z spelling. Pretty damn careless just to have pasted in the AI text without checking for US spellings.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1999620966746570891

I'd say that's pretty much case closed on the AI question. I wonder, seriously, if Mr Kemp needs to be checked for Alzheimer's. Or maybe covid-induced brain rot.

 

[Emily's Cat]

TPAs are the sovcits of the mental health world.

 

[Emily's Cat]

But it's very hard for me to determine whether those are typical or a vocal minority when the people I actually encounter in the "real" world do not seem to fit the mold.

Good post overall, just going to respond to this bit.

I don't think any of us think the aggressive bad actors are either typical or a majority. What they are, however, is a large enough contingent to be a problem. In particular, they're a problem for females, and only for females. They're never going to be a problem for you, they're never going to be in your bathroom or changing room demanding that you have to tolerate their dicks being shown to you, they're never going to be in your shower ogling you. They're never going to loom over you, intimidating you with their physical presence, demanding that you pretend they're just as much of a female as you.

So even if they're not the majority, it only takes a small number of them to disproportionately screw over females and strip us of our right to consent as well as basic dignity.

 

[Emily's Cat]

I'm sure you do. Virtually all women walk through the door, expecting me to hold it open while they pass through. Virtually all men hurry to relieve me from holding it for them.

Weird. I currently live in a fairly red state, I've lived in both blue and red states throughout my adult life. Sometimes a male will take the door from me and insist I go in, but the majority of both males and females go on through.

Perhaps you're doing it wrong? Like, when I say I hold the door open, that's not me standing in the way propping it open until they get there. I make it obvious that I'm holding the door for them by stepping off to the side while holding the door wide, making it clear that I'm holding it for them to go through.

You can bet your sweet bippy I'd be a-hesitating.

And would you be hesitating because you wouldn't want them to feel potentially intimidated or threatened by having an exposed penis near them? Or would you hesitate because something is off and your primal threat radar has gone off around the uncanny?

Depends. She available?

Honestly, dude, read the room. What makes you think this is an appropriate venue for that sort of joke?

 

[Rolfe]

This separate case is jaw-dropping. A psychiatrist raised a possible safeguarding concern with the local council, concerning a deputy head teacher (I think he's actually been promoted to head teacher at a primary school) who moonlights as a raunchy drag queen (and there were other specific issues raised). However she didn't make a formal complaint, she instead asked for details of the council's policies surrounding relevant aspects. She specifically asked that her identity not be disclosed to the teacher.

Doctor cleared of misconduct after ‘anti-trans’ social media posts

Anne Woodhouse, a psychologist from Inverness, faced a medical tribunal after complaints from a teacher who is also a drag queen

www.thetimes.com

However, her identity was disclosed to him. He then trawled her social media for posts (detailed in the article) which indicated her sex-realist views (including likes as well as posts of her own) and reported her to both the council and her professional body. The council said, nothing to see here, but her professional body decided to take action against her. The whole thing dragged on for a couple of years but the hearing was today. Campbell refused to testify until a screen was erected between him and the defendant, claiming that even seeing her made him unsafe. This was done.

The allegations were kicked out. No case to answer. But she has had three years of stress, and he just walks away, no sanction.

 

[Thermal]

Perhaps you're doing it wrong?

Hadn't occured to me that i could be holding the door open wrong for anyone, unless i was propping it with the aforementioned shlong?

Like, when I say I hold the door open, that's not me standing in the way propping it open until they get there. I make it obvious that I'm holding the door for them by stepping off to the side while holding the door wide, making it clear that I'm holding it for them to go through.

And would you be hesitating because you wouldn't want them to feel potentially intimidated or threatened by having an exposed penis near them? Or would you hesitate because something is off and your primal threat radar has gone off around the uncanny?

Mostly a guy in a tiara, I ain't throwing dice around.

Honestly, dude, read the room. What makes you think this is an appropriate venue for that sort of joke?

Honestly dudette, I don't give a ◊◊◊◊ anymore. The condescension and general misery delivered ITT has me far beyond the point of caring if y'all think I'm appropriate.

 

[Tomboy]

FYI, whatever issue you're having reading Tomboy's posts appears to be on your end. Perhaps try changing skins?

Oh, it's totally something that I'm doing inadvertently, but I know how to prevent it from happening in the future.

 

[smartcooky]

Back on topic...

Those who labour under the delusion that transgenderism is NOT a mental illness (and yes @Thermal, I'm looking at you) need to watch this. Its Chris Elston (known as "Billboard Chris") dropping some truth-bombs on the European Parliament. His information comes directly from the Tavistock's own statistics and data...


Its only three minutes, so no excuses, but for those who refuse to watch video, here are the basics...

According to the Tavistock in the UK, of the kids they treated for gender dysphoria...

70% had five or more coexisting mental health comorbidities... not just a couple.. five or more!! Most of them being autism (35% of patients out of a sample of 1,069 kids, had moderate to severe autism) while some of the other coexisting mental health coorbidities included eating disorders and borderline personality disorder.

60% of the kids had suffered sexual abuse. Anecdotally, if you read the stories of these people, you'd find it's even higher, especially if you
listen to the stories of dransitioners.

52% of the mothers of the boys had borderline personality disorder themselves (compared with just 6% of the general population).
If transgenderism is innate why is it that more than half of the mothers (over eight times the rate of the general population) had borderline personality disorder?

Anyone... ANYONE who claims that transgenderism is not a mental illness does not know what they are talking about.

 

[Rolfe]

The John Campbell saga just gets worse and worse.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1999600885899407624

This man is now the headmaster of several schools in the Loch Ness area, primary and secondary. He also works as a drag queen. He's active in the transgender movement although he doesn't seem to identify as trans himself.

School inspections show his schools are failing, with a safeguarding fail being particularly important.

Here's his victim's account of what happened.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1999516104943665246

She raised a concern about safeguarding, requesting anonymity. Her name was given to him regardless because he was "extremely distressed" about this. He then trawled her social media and reported her to the police, who (to their credit) said the posts were perfectly lawful, and no offence had been committed. He then reported her to her professional regulator, the HCPC. They took his complaints seriously and subjected her to three years of investigation and disciplinary processes. Bear in mind this woman is a qualified psychiatrist, a doctor. Included in the indictments were the allegations that she posted or permitted others to post things objectionable to the trans community, and that she liked, or permitted others to like similar posts. She is apparently responsible for what others post, or even like. It's absolutely outrageous. Eventually that case was also thrown out.

Here's what Denis Kavanagh has to say about it.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1999557735902306717

The issue is that there is apparently no comeback at all against either Campbell, or the HCPC, for having put Dr Woodhouse through all this, or indeed for the amount of public money spent on it. They're free to do exactly the same thing to someone else next week. This post in the thread is interesting.



But probably consequences will go right on not happening. Meanwhile this creepy man continues as headmaster of various schools, including primary schools, pushing the trans agenda, and being so fearful that he couldn't even give evidence until a screen was placed between him nd the woman he was victimising.

It can't be that easy to find an alternative school in that area which isn't under his command. I pity the parents. If it was me, I'd look into moving, but it's not always possible to uproot an entire family's lives and livelihood just like that.

 

[Rolfe]

At this stage I am seriously asking myself how many times Sandy Kemp has had covid.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1999761757951394146

 

[Thermal]

Back on topic...

Those who labour under the delusion that transgenderism is NOT a mental illness (and yes @Thermal, I'm looking at you)

...and the worldwide medical community, yeah...

need to watch this. Its Chris Elston (known as "Billboard Chris") dropping some truth-bombs on the European Parliament. His information comes directly from the Tavistock's own statistics and data...

Tavistock's data? The outfit shut down by NHS after multiple internal whistle-blowers were screaming about how ◊◊◊◊◊◊ up and incompetent their procedures and protocols were? The one where female subjects went from a fraction of a percent of males to a whopping 70%, an inexplicable 5000% increase in seven years? Their 'own statistics and data' are widely discredited.

Its only three minutes, so no excuses,

Three minutes to listen to a guy slowly say what could have been read in seconds. Most people object to videos for this reason, as well as sometimes desiring quiet, either personally or out of consideration for others around them.

According to the Tavistock in the UK, of the kids they treated for gender dysphoria...

Your first major flub right out of the gate: the Tavistock data was only dealing with mentally ill people as the group for their study. You extrapolate that as all transpeople are mentally ill. Like, studying exclusively people with broken legs and declaring 'therefore all people with legs have broken legs'?

Do you understand the magnitude of your screw up on this point?

70% had five or more coexisting mental health comorbidities... not just a couple.. five or more!! Most of them being autism (35% of patients out of a sample of 1,069 kids, had moderate to severe autism) while some of the other coexisting mental health coorbidities included eating disorders and borderline personality disorder.

60% of the kids had suffered sexual abuse. Anecdotally, if you read the stories of these people, you'd find it's even higher, especially if you
listen to the stories of dransitioners.

Ya, they were drawing data from the severely mentally ill, not the general trans population.

52% of the mothers of the boys had borderline personality disorder themselves (compared with just 6% of the general population).
If transgenderism is innate why is it that more than half of the mothers (over eight times the rate of the general population) had borderline personality disorder?

This was from, as your speaker said, an older study, whose findings have not been replicated.

{Eta: he also doesn't clarify if this 'older study' was Tavistock's work, or someone else's. He just says it was 'older'. That is yet again why videos are inferior to the written word. An article is much faster to read, and will have its source information cited or linked. The reader can fact check on the fly, and go back to reference the context that it was claimed in. Its harder to fool a person with the writren word, compared to speaking. Videos are generally for the simple minded, who are easily persuaded by someone confidently speaking to them. Readers have the luxury of being more critical}

Anyone... ANYONE who claims that transgenderism is not a mental illness does not know what they are talking about.

Your interpretation of the data you present indicates that it is YOU with a bit of cabeza en el culo..